Am I taking the p...

[luctor et emergo]

Really? I always moved if I did not like an area, and I believe a substantial amount of people around the world do the same thing.

Yes. We should take the example of Somalia, Poles, Lithuanians, Afghans, Nigerians, Romanians...

 

Ohh, hang on.. Wrong thread.

[mark99]

Where does it say that in the law exactly?

 

If you go around thinking you can do anything you want because it's not specifically written down in law and it suits your personal circumstances that's your perogative.

 

Below is lifted from CaRT's guidance for CC and THAT's what is written down for all to see. Perhaps you could use the below and tell us what YOU think we should all be doing?

 

 

1) "it is the responsibility of the boater to satisfy the Trust that the above requirements are and will

continue to be met"

 

 

2) "Unacceptable reasons for staying longer than 14 days in a neighbourhood or locality are a need to

stay within commuting distance of a place of work or of study (e.g. a school or college)."

 

 

"This Guidance does not have the force of law but seeks to interpret the law as set out in s.17 British Waterways

 

Act 1995. The language of the Act is generic and, as with all statutes, requires interpretation. The Guidance is

based on professional legal advice, including from Leading Counsel, and is believed by the Trust to reflect the

correct legal interpretation of the Statute. The Guidelines issued in 2008 were considered by the court in the case

of British Waterways v Davies in the Bristol County Court. The

 

Judge expressly found that Mr Davies’ movement

of his vessel every 14 days (whilst remaining on the same approximate 10 mile stretch of canal between Bath

and Bradford on Avon) was not bona fide use of the vessel for navigation. These Guidelines have been updated

and refined in the light of that Judgment"

 

Section 17(3)© British Waterways Act 1995 states that BW may refuse a licence (“relevant consent”) unless (i)

BW is satisfied the relevant vessel has a home mooring or: “(ii) the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the

Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period"

Edited October 9, 2014 by mark99

[Alf Roberts]

 

If you go around thinking you can do anything you want because it's not specifically written down in law and it suits your personal circumstances that's your perogative.

 

]

That's exactly what British law says. ( Moore vs BW 2013 )

Yes. We should take the example of Somalia, Poles, Lithuanians, Afghans, Nigerians, Romanians...

 

Ohh, hang on.. Wrong thread.

Brilliant !!

[mark99]

If the law does not specifically state; but the clear guidance surrounding the issue of a licence is not followed then, rather than a state of mutuality being reached between us we have all sort of agenda's being played out. Levelling out to the lowest common denominator forced upon us all.

[Dharl]

£9.95 for only 50 pages! I use a day to view A5 diary. £2 at most.

 

 

Does depend what else you put in your cruising diary! We use a Day to page as well but if you wanted to keep a quick log of your 'bona fida navigation' and you are only moving once every 14 days rather than every day or so then you could put multiply entries on to one page. not everyone wants to write an essay every day

 

edit for my bad spelling

Edited October 9, 2014 by Dharl

[Dharl]

As a thought regarding definitions of Areas, if this helps or distracts from peoples views on distances I don't know, but IF CaRT was to introduce a map, which I think is a logical solution, would it not make sense for the areas to be based on Parish Areas? Parish's where, generally, in existence before the canals where built and so have a longevity and also allow for the fact that in Towns and City's they are more closely placed together however out in the sticks are by nature more spread out.

[cotswoldsman]

As a thought regarding definitions of Areas, if this helps or distracts from peoples views on distances I don't know, but IF CaRT was to introduce a map, which I think is a logical solution, would it not make sense for the areas to be based on Parish Areas? Parish's where, generally, in existence before the canals where built and so have a longevity and also allow for the fact that in Towns and City's they are more closely placed together however out in the sticks are by nature more spread out.

Now that sounds like an idea wonder if CRT have thought of that

[Dharl]

I would hope they have already had a thought about it. It just seems a simple solution to me bearing in mind that the parish boundaries are already in place so would be a relatively simple (sic) job to overlay them on a OS map showing the relative portion of the canal.

[mayalld]

It's depressing when people choose to cc a very small area, eventually drawing more to do the same. I hear so much about "it's all about sharing man" when what they really mean is, "I'll do what I want, you have to fit in".

 

I'm a CC'er, my other half continued to work in London for several years, but we didn't cruise up and down little Venice.

The spirit of the legislation should be adhered to by all, it's your moral responsibility. To quote CRT, it's not a bloody housing estate, and I don't for one moment believe it should be.

 

This problem could be simply solved by some people acting a little more responsibly, and a little less selfishly.

Let me tell you, if they don't, the matter will soon be taken out of their hands, and a minimum distance per year will come in. Believe it or not, there will be a lot of support for it.

 

Well, there's a turn up for the books, we seem to be in total agreement.

 

The irony is that whilst there is a yawning gulf between what the typical leisure boater would say a CCer should do, and what those that you describe as selfish think they should do, that gulf doesn't actually have to be bridged for the issue to die a death.

 

I, as one of those leisure boaters (and despite some people's views of me, I have taken on board the things that have been said by those who sensibly challenge what we leisure boaters should expect from CCers) might hold the view that going down Bosley Locks once in a while wouldn't kill some of those who frequent the top pound.

 

I accept however, that they might not do so. The Upper PF and Macc is a lovely place, and they might just like being here.

 

However, if their cruising range is Bollington to Poynton, they look to me to be taking the P.

 

Perhaps if they cruised the whole top pound, people wouldn't see them quite so often, and the resentment would fall off.

 

Nowhere near what some leisure boaters would suggest they should do, almost certainly less than any new rules might require, but enough to calm the storm.

[luctor et emergo]

Good grief. Dave talking sense...

 

What ever next?

No requirement to paint boats lime green?

Boaters did wear bowler hats?

NC will suddenly find the document that explains how to operate a lift bridge?

[howardang]

I would hope they have already had a thought about it. It just seems a simple solution to me bearing in mind that the parish boundaries are already in place so would be a relatively simple (sic) job to overlay them on a OS map showing the relative portion of the canal.

BW used parishes in their original CC cruising guidelines. I think the flaw with that was that those wishing to bridge hop found moorings just inside one parish and move a few hundred yards to the next parish. Hence the call for minimum distance which they and CRT have found impossible.

 

Howard

[Dharl]

Howard,

 

But surly under the rules that would only work on a number of occasions? After one such move the next one would be a few miles further along.....

 

In slight relation to the similar thread on-going, between centre of Oxford and Aynho Wharf there are 12 different parishes.

[Sabcat]

BW used parishes in their original CC cruising guidelines. I think the flaw with that was that those wishing to bridge hop found moorings just inside one parish and move a few hundred yards to the next parish. Hence the call for minimum distance which they and CRT have found impossible.

 

Howard

 

Reading posts from Nigel Moore and others the problem CaRT have is that they don't have the legal authority to define them.

 

All of this comes down, to my mind, to whether a boat is causing an issue being where it is. If it is then it makes no difference how long it has or hasn't been there, it should be moved. If it isn't causing a problem then the same applies, why bother them?

[Dharl]

_{I suppose that then goes back to the suggestion of charging everyone the same for their license, irrespective if they have a home mooring or not?}

[Ange]

As long as you have a regular 9-5 one-location job or kids in school, anything that makes you fixed and largely immovable - then you cannot possibly claim to be a genuine CCer.

I absolutedly, wholeheartedly and passionately take issue with this statement.

 

You are wrong - if you work in an area surrounded by canals of course you can. It's hard and inconvenient (we've done it in various places on the system) but you can do it and stay very comfortably within the rules. Whether it remains within your perception of ccing is a very different issue, but I'm sorry mate you don't make the rules

This year we decided to park ourselves in a marina - I'm working in Stoke on Trent and we could have kept very easily within the cc guidelines. We have the Trent & Mersey, Middlewich Branch and Shroppie within an hour of my work - we could have done it and considered it not because we're freeloaders looking for something for nothing but because we absolutely love being out on the cut. As it happens we decided we didn't feel up to the aggro this year, so parked ourselves in a marina close to my work.

 

Ccing and working is not an easy option - nor is it cheap - for us it's done because we passionately love living on the cut but haven't reached a point in our lives where we don't need to work.

 

I am utterly fed up with this perception that the only "genuine" ccers must be grey haired retired folk setting off into the sunset. Some of us don't meet this blinkered criteria but still keep within the rules.

 

Bugger - it's my birthday - why am I posting on a cc thread when I promised myself I never would again!

 

Good night folks

Edited October 9, 2014 by Ange

[bassplayer]

I absolutedly, wholeheartedly and passionately take issue with this statement.

 

You are wrong - if you work in an area surrounded by canals of course you can. It's hard and inconvenient (we've done it in various places on the system) but you can do it and stay very comfortably within the rules. Whether it remains within your perception of ccing is a very different issue, but I'm sorry mate you don't make the rules

This year we decided to park ourselves in a marina - I'm working in Stoke on Trent and we could have kept very easily within the cc guidelines. We have the Trent & Mersey, Middlewich Branch and Shroppie within an hour of my work - we could have done it and considered it not because we're freeloaders looking for something for nothing but because we absolutely love being out on the cut. As it happens we decided we didn't feel up to the aggro this year, so parked ourselves in a marina close to my work.

 

Ccing and working is not an easy option - nor is it cheap - for us it's done because we passionately love living on the cut but haven't reached a point in our lives where we don't need to work.

Yes it does worry me that some might believe we're taking the P just because we have commitments....who hasn't got commitments?

 

Everything in life is a balance. When we got up to Yorkshire this year we decided the car trip back to the Bedfordshire area most weekends was getting on our nerves, so we turned around. I have seriously contemplated letting the band go so we are freer to travel further but music is in my blood along with the boating...(there must be a song in there!)

[Ange]

Yes it does worry me that some might believe we're taking the P just because we have commitments....who hasn't got commitments?

 

Everything in life is a balance. When we got up to Yorkshire this year we decided the car trip back to the Bedfordshire area most weekends was getting on our nerves, so we turned around. I have seriously contemplated letting the band go so we are freer to travel further but music is in my blood along with the boating...(there must be a song in there!)

It's always hard for folk that live by black and white rules to understand isn't it?

 

Follow your heart mate - there are no easy decisions in life you just have to do what you think is best at the time.

 

Best of luck to you

 

(Our family are 4-6 hours away depending on the traffic - it's not good but I still wouldn't give up our lifestyle.)

[bassplayer]

It's always hard for folk that live by black and white rules to understand isn't it?

 

Follow your heart mate - there are no easy decisions in life you just have to do what you think is best at the time.

 

Best of luck to you

 

(Our family are 4-6 hours away depending on the traffic - it's not good but I still wouldn't give up our lifestyle.)

Thanks Ange. Good luck to you too..

 

Crikey.....4-6 hours away....that's a difficult compromise...

[Jerra]

(Our family are 4-6 hours away depending on the traffic - it's not good but I still wouldn't give up our lifestyle.)

I live on land and my family is 3 to 4 hours away in different directions. It isn't just a CCing problem.

[Alan de Enfield]

We have one Son who lives in Cambodia, the other is going to emigrate to Canada next year - 3 or 4 hours - tis nothing !!!!!!