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Fitting a Shower!?


weswally

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Hi guys,

 

I've found a boat which i'm keen to go view this weekend, it's in Cardiff I'm in London, and I'm keen to turn it into a live aboard for me and the Mrs.

 

The only thing is, it has no shower. frusty.gif

 

Can someone lead me in the direction of someone that fits showers/ or a website where I can browse NB shower prices?

 

Here's a link to the boat:

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=385613

 

The boat will also require lifting out the water and transporting to a Canal, possibly near London. I've been quoted £1000 by the Ship brokers. Is this an overpriced estimate?

 

Thanks for your time again!

 

Wes captain.gif

 

 

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Hi guys,

 

I've found a boat which i'm keen to go view this weekend, it's in Cardiff I'm in London, and I'm keen to turn it into a live aboard for me and the Mrs.

 

The only thing is, it has no shower. frusty.gif

 

Can someone lead me in the direction of someone that fits showers/ or a website where I can browse NB shower prices?

 

Here's a link to the boat:

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=385613

 

The boat will also require lifting out the water and transporting to a Canal, possibly near London. I've been quoted £1000 by the Ship brokers. Is this an overpriced estimate?

 

Thanks for your time again!

 

Wes captain.gif

 

 

 

Where in the boat were you imagining the space for a shower?

 

This is the reason its cheap, I'd suggest...!

 

 

MtB

P.S. For loadsa boats for sale, try www.apolloduck.co.uk

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Hi guys,

 

I've found a boat which i'm keen to go view this weekend, it's in Cardiff I'm in London, and I'm keen to turn it into a live aboard for me and the Mrs.

 

The only thing is, it has no shower. frusty.gif

 

Can someone lead me in the direction of someone that fits showers/ or a website where I can browse NB shower prices?

 

Here's a link to the boat:

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=385613

 

The boat will also require lifting out the water and transporting to a Canal, possibly near London. I've been quoted £1000 by the Ship brokers. Is this an overpriced estimate?

 

Thanks for your time again!

 

Wes captain.gif

 

 

£1000 to lift in Cardiff transport to London and launch is cheep IMO

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Where in the boat were you imagining the space for a shower?

 

 

I was imagining opposite the current toilet location...

At that price there will be something seriously wrong, like it needing a lot of welding. But I am sure you have done the homework and are well aware of the pitfalls.

I have done the homework over the past few months, but for this boat, I haven't had it surveyed. The ship broker told me the hull was blackened 2 weeks ago? Sounded promising.

Could the bathroom/toilet not be turned into a wetroom? Mine has a very similar looking corner sink, except it has a central mixer tap, the head of which pulls out and can be mounted on a bracket on the wall, this forms the shower. I'd say my wetroom is only slightly larger than that bathroom.

That is what I was thinking too, though I've read some nasty things about NB wetrooms in the winter, trying to keep the area dry etc.

Unless I'm missing something - - you will only be able to run (any) of the 240v electrics providing you are connected to a shorepower supply.

 

Do you have a mooring (with power) already organised?

 

(Or will you be buying a 5Kw generator?)

 

Hey Grace,

 

Thanks for this. I'm not really aware of how boats are powered and what is required to run a boat of this size. By the sounds of your post, there is something not right with the boats power supply? I plan on CC'ing the London network.

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Hmm, Wes,

 

Look, I don't want to burst any bubbles here, but I seriously suggest that before you commit any money to purchasing a boat, you do extra research.

 

Whilst non of us have seen the boat, just (from) the photographs it suggests that you've some very high power requirement equipment aboard, (oven, hob, 'fridge) - - the first two require 32amp 240v supply, (which very few moorings are supplied with - - hen's teeth springs to mind). You could, if really needed, run a fridge from both a 16amp shore supply, (more common on moorings) or from a large battery bank together an inverter (circa £2k) - - and some means of charging the batteries (as your boat engine probably isn't sufficiently powerful - it'll need a decent generator)

 

So - if you intend to continuously cruise London, you will not be able to use the hob or oven (or a microwave) unless you spend many many £100's on a fairly big generator, and it may not even be as simple as that!

 

Now - I think the crux may be "I plan on CC'ing the London network"

I seriously hope you have checked out all the requirements of that statement - and, if you are really clever, telephone your nearest CRT office and have them explain how they expect you to move, and maybe also look at London Boaters Facebook pages.

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That add screams "scam"!!!

As has been said, there is now no navigable canal in Cardiff, although there are some marina moorings in the river extensions to the Cardiff Bay lagoon, but none of the photos tie-in with what I know of the area.

If it is "real" then the only way of moving the boat would be a lorry lift from Cardiff either direct to London, or to perhaps Bath, Gloucester or somewhere to connect with the canal system.

Pay me my diesel and a good lunch and I'll take a trip down there!

 

Have you actually ever spent any time on a canal boat?

 

And I suggest you do a search on here about the possible problems of continuously cruising in London!

Here's a start;

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=70439

Edited by Graham Davis
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Thanks for this. I'm not really aware of how boats are powered and what is required to run a boat of this size. By the sounds of your post, there is something not right with the boats power supply? I plan on CC'ing the London network.

With this boat you will not last 12 hrs

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laugh.png We managed on Springy with ten feet less space and some ambitious demands from me!

 

And we refitted half the boat which would have cost best part of £10k if done by a professional outfit...! :)

 

 

MtB

With this boat you will not last 12 hrs

 

More like 12 minutes....

Actually no, BUY IT!

 

We need a few horror stories circulating on the cut about how badly wrong plans to CC in London can go...

 

:D

 

MtB

 

 

P.S. No don't buy it. Ignore my post. It would be cruel to encourage you to sacrifice your hard-earned on such a potential disaster boat. DO SOME RESEARCH ffs!!!!!

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I'm not really aware of how boats are powered and what is required to run a boat of this size.

 

As others have suggested above Wes it seems that a little extra research would be a good idea. To get you started though...

 

Assuming you want to CC (as you have stated) you will be off grid. So you will be creating all of your own power. Your main source of power will most likely be your engine, but you may also have solar (a very good investment) and or have a small generator. Whichever combination of these power sources you have, they will all do the same thing, which is to charge your battery bank. This battery bank will then allow you to use electricity on board your boat. The batteries produce (well technically they don't produce it, only store it) 12V DC electricity, and it is most efficient for you to use DC devices on board (your lights for example, will be 12v DC, you would be wise to acquire a DC laptop charger etc). You can also get 240v AC electricity from your batteries (to run "normal" devices like in a house), but this will require an additional piece of kit called an inverter.

 

Right, so that's all of the components in the system... The difference between a boat and a house is this: In a house your power will keep on coming, however much you use, in a boat your batteries can run out. Even the basics of modern life (lighting, phone charging, fridge, running water, laptop, beard trimmer) constitute a significant amount of power for a small boat set up, and you may find you have significant issues providing even that amount of power. For this reason anything that can not be electric, is done away with. Heating is provided by a solid fuel stove, or gas. Cooking is done with gas. Lighting is often provided by oil lamp or candles. In colder months fridges are turned off and food stored outside. And many of life's luxuries are just not an option! Power tools for example, microwaves, food processors, hair dryers, washing machines, immersion heaters... Very few people on boats (and almost none on boats in your economic group) have the power to run these devices.

 

It is essential that you understand what all of this means before buying a boat, otherwise you could be left in a very sticky situation indeed! If you don't know this stuff and you go to view a boat you may well be served a nice cup of tea (made with the electric kettle on the shore power connection) in a cosy warm saloon (heated by a freestanding oil filled radiator), while you transfer a deposit to the guy using his laptop (plugged in to shore power, and using the marina WIFI), thinking you had a pretty sweet deal. BUT none of these things would be possible once you bought the boat and were chugging down the GU!

 

Boating is a lifestyle change, what I have talked about above only really deals with electricity, which is a small scratch on the surface. Do you know other people on boats? Probably a good idea to chat to them... Also, as mentioned above you should do some serious research into what it means to CC in London.

 

Best of luck!

 

Edited for type O's.

Edited by Tom Richmond
  • Greenie 4
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Could the bathroom/toilet not be turned into a wetroom? Mine has a very similar looking corner sink, except it has a central mixer tap, the head of which pulls out and can be mounted on a bracket on the wall, this forms the shower. I'd say my wetroom is only slightly larger than that bathroom.

I have a rectangular plastic shower tray ~44" x 23" x 7" (not a 'proper wet room') with the porta potti at the end furthest from the door and a shower head on the opposite bulkhead. You would have to waterproof the compartment and the door and install a 12V pump to evacuate the waste water. The corner washbasin could be retained. It does not matter that the loo gets wet, main problem is remembering to remove the loo roll before showering and leaving it, or a dry replacement, within reach.

 

Chances are that this 1978 boat orginally had bottled gas installed and the pipework may still exist. Figure in the cost of a gas fired cooker and water heater. A small inverter (converting 12V DC to 240V AC) will run the 'fridge but requires a 100Ah battery to be recharged daily by running the engine for three hours if you are CC'ing.

 

That add screams "scam"!!!

As has been said, there is now no navigable canal in Cardiff, although there are some marina moorings in the river extensions to the Cardiff Bay lagoon, but none of the photos tie-in with what I know of the area.

If it is "real" then the only way of moving the boat would be a lorry lift from Cardiff either direct to London, or to perhaps Bath, Gloucester or somewhere to connect with the canal system.

Pay me my diesel and a good lunch and I'll take a trip down there!

 

Have you actually ever spent any time on a canal boat?

 

And I suggest you do a search on here about the possible problems of continuously cruising in London!

Here's a start;

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=70439

See The Ship Brokers website for a Google map. Apparently the boat is moored in Penarth Marina.

 

The Ship Brokers, despite their address, appear to be a web-based portal with no moorings, offering only to promulgate advertising for a fixed fee - £599. Chances are they know nothing about inland craft, let alone steel hulled narrowboats and they simply repeat the details provided by the vendor.

 

It may be possible to lift, transport and crane in a 30', three ton boat that they are used to for £1,000 but 40' (15 ton?) will cost double, maybe treble that amount.

 

Alan

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Look, I don't want to burst any bubbles here,

 

Whilst non of us have seen the boat, just (from) the photographs it suggests that you've some very high power requirement equipment aboard, (oven, hob, 'fridge) - - the first two require 32amp 240v supply, (which very few moorings are supplied with - - hen's teeth springs to mind). You could, if really needed, run a fridge from both a 16amp shore supply, (more common on moorings) or from a large battery bank together an inverter (circa £2k) - - and some means of charging the batteries (as your boat engine probably isn't sufficiently powerful - it'll need a decent generator)

 

I seriously hope you have checked out all the requirements of that statement - and, if you are really clever, telephone your nearest CRT office and have them explain how they expect you to move, and maybe also look at London Boaters Facebook pages.

 

The bubbles been burst!! closedeyes.gif

 

I'll contact the seller and ask about the voltage requirements. But as you've pointed out it seems this boat is designed to be permanently moored in a (Cardiff) marina, and not CC'd. I've done a lot of research on CCing in London, recently joined the London FB group etc. It seems a lot of people do it. How come no-one else has trouble running their fridges and microwaves? blink.png

 

Pay me my diesel and a good lunch and I'll take a trip down there!

 

 

This is a very tempting offer!

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As others have suggested above Wes it seems that a little extra research would be a good idea. To get you started though...

 

Assuming you want to CC (as you have stated) you will be off grid. So you will be creating all of your own power. Your main source of power will most likely be your engine, but you may also have solar (a very good investment) and or have a small generator. Whichever combination of these power sources you have, they will all do the same thing, which is to charge your battery bank. This battery bank will then allow you to use electricity on board your boat. The batteries produce (well technically they don't produce it, only store it) 12V DC electricity, and it is most efficient for you to use DC devices on board (your lights for example, will be 12v DC, you would be wise to acquire a DC laptop charger etc). You can also get 240v AC electricity from your batteries (to run "normal" devices like in a house), but this will require an additional piece of kit called an inverter.

 

Right, so that's all of the components in the system... The difference between a boat and a house is this: In a house your power will keep on coming, however much you use, in a boat your batteries can run out. Even the basics of modern life (lighting, phone charging, fridge, running water, laptop, beard trimmer) constitute a significant amount of power for a small boat set up, and you may find you have significant issues providing even that amount of power. For this reason anything that can not be electric, is done away with. Heating is provided by a solid fuel stove, or gas. Cooking is done with gas. Lighting is often provided by oil lamp or candles. In colder months fridges are turned off and food stored outside. And many of life's luxuries are just not an option! Power tools for example, microwaves, food processors, hair dryers, washing machines, immersion heaters... Very few people on boats (and almost none on boats in your economic group) have the power to run these devices.

 

It is essential that you understand what all of this means before buying a boat, otherwise you could be left in a very sticky situation indeed! If you don't know this stuff and you go to view a boat you may well be served a nice cup of tea (made with the electric kettle on the shore power connection) in a cosy warm saloon (heated by a freestanding oil filled radiator), while you transfer a deposit to the guy using his laptop (plugged in to shore power, and using the marina WIFI), thinking you had a pretty sweet deal. BUT none of these things would be possible once you bought the boat and were chugging down the GU!

 

Boating is a lifestyle change, what I have talked about above only really deals with electricity, which is a small scratch on the surface. Do you know other people on boats? Probably a good idea to chat to them... Also, as mentioned above you should do some serious research into what it means to CC in London.

 

Best of luck!

 

Edited for type O's.

 

Thanks for this very thorough response Tom, I really appreciate it!

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I emailed the seller and requested more photos, hope these help.

 

You can see the space where a shower would fit quite well if those cabinets were removed.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4hviubr3xc23fqu/AACQY2f_9HSg1R070hZCz8Jwa/DSC_0592.JPG?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4hviubr3xc23fqu/AABfNlQUotRnITYXqmPFQnlSa?dl=0#lh:null-2014-09-25%2012.38.23.jpg

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4hviubr3xc23fqu/AADgDCsp71LIOAQM0W7Vk-KKa/2014-09-25%2012.45.23.jpg?dl=0

 

Thanks again for all the feedback so far. You've changed my perception from a mouth frothing rookie buyer to a sceptical marine power surveyor analyst.

 

He also mentioned they would get a BSC for her as part of the deal.

Edited by weswally
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I cruised the system for about 5 years. Even with lots of travelling I needed to do a number of things to manage my electricity requirements:

 

  • Use only 12v appliances
  • Get a few hundred watts of solar panels and MPPT controller
  • Moor where there was sun for the panels, which in summer meant coming home to a baking hot boat (London is very built up so chances are there'll be a fair amount of shade on your solar panels and more scrotes around to smash them with stones)
  • Run the engine every day for most of the day that there wasn't lots of sunlight, and every other day for a couple of hours when there was
  • Not use the fridge at all in winter
  • Turn the fridge off at night
  • Use gas or woodburning stove for cooking on
  • Be a thrifty eco hippy with all other leccy use - charging laptop and phone mainly when running the engine or use 240v sockets in pubs or at work; turn off anything I'm not using; swap light bulbs for LEDs or use candles when bright light isn't necessary

I like living like a eco-hippy. Being off grid and not needing 240v electrics is one of the reasons I moved onto my boat as I like the independence and low(er) carbon footprint. Unfortunately the boat you're looking at won't allow any of that without several grands worth of alterations and new appliances. There are lots of better value boats out there if you bide your time and look all over the country (by better value I mean in the long run for what you need)

Edited by BlueStringPudding
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