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Boaty Jo

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And any other boats I might be holding up simple answer I'm solo so lend a hand, but there better be two of you because the second someone else is working the lock I'm back on the boat, the easiest way to avoid lock accidents

No its not, if something goes wrong when you are on the boat you can't do anything, you are 100% reliant on the person with the windlass that you know nothing about.

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No its not, if something goes wrong when you are on the boat you can't do anything, you are 100% reliant on the person with the windlass that you know nothing about.

Your logic is flawed. From the boat you can steer forward or reverse from an issue.

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I don't see why not.

Think about it. How can you check if the bottom gate is leaking when you have left it open!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Edited to add: - My apologies Tony. I have just re-read your post and realised that I did not read it properly.

You were talking about the top gate leaking, I wrongly made the assumption you were on about checking the bottom gate. Stupid really because to do so a boater would have to wait until the lock has filled again. Nobody would do that.blush.png

Edited by Radiomariner
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Not when the rudder is on the cill or the bows under the top gate. Dropping the paddles can get you out of trouble.

Yes I would rather be on the lock side in control but it's the 100% you said that's not quite so definite. If you are in the boat you should be able to make sure you are not in a cilling or nosing a gate position.

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99.9% of my boating will be single handed so I fully intend to do this as well.

Okay it will take longer but a price worth paying for that little bit of extra safety.

And any other boats I might be holding up simple answer I'm solo so lend a hand, but there better be two of you because the second someone else is working the lock I'm back on the boat, the easiest way to avoid lock accidents

If I came to help you and you did this I'd walk away again. You don't need anyone on the boat.

 

As for only one paddle... pathetic.

 

If you want to hold people up like a squat toad, I guess there's nothing anyone can do. I hope I never get stuck behind you.

Yes I would rather be on the lock side in control but it's the 100% you said that's not quite so definite. If you are in the boat you should be able to make sure you are not in a cilling or nosing a gate position.

That'll be 'on the boat' I guess you mean. What's wrong with a rope and a bit of vigilance?

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1. You're in charge of your own lock

2. You can't do this from your boat

3. I have had people say 'you go down with your boat' but it remains their offer and my decision and I wouldn't do it unless I trusted their competence.

4. One paddle instead of two in no way reduces the risk of getting stuck.

 

All in all it's safest to operate locks in the correct manner which, with no coincidence, is also the most efficient.

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Think about it. How can you check if the bottom gate is leaking when you have left it open!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Edited to add: - My apologies Tony. I have just re-read your post and realised that I did not read it properly.

You were talking about the top gate leaking, I wrongly made the assumption you were on about checking the bottom gate. Stupid really because to do so a boater would have to wait until the lock has filled again. Nobody would do that.blush.png

 

What I meant is either top or bottom gates/paddles leaking . . . I did specify "the gates behind you" . . . whether that's top or bottom gates depends on which way you're going.

 

tony dunkley, on 29 Sept 2014 - 1:51 PM, said:

In the course of this thread it's occurred to me to ask if it is the normal practice among pleasure boaters to check the gates behind you for leakage whilst working, and especially just before leaving a lock. It was something always done without fail at every lock by professional boatmen, almost subconciously, it only needs a glance, as part of the process of working a lock, partly to reduce the chance of pounds dropping behind you and also to make sure that none of the paddles were partially fouled and hadn't gone right down, slowing the lock from filling or emptying as fast as possible.

Edited by tony dunkley
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whereas I acknowledge your experience on the Trent, your knowledge of the Huddersfield narrow is sadly lacking.

 

http://waterwaynews.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/photograph-of-latest-huddersfield.html

 

lock9w-b.jpg

lock9w-a.jpg

I may be mistaken (but I don't think so) but I believe that in the lower of these two photos used to illustrate 'cillings', the boaters themselves were totally blameless. It looks like the cilling that took place on the Leeds Liverpool Canal at Johnsons Hillock bottom lock (64) and the cause of the cilling was the fact that as the boater tried to exit the lock the paddle on the bottom gate blew out causing the lock to drain. If anyone knows of a defence to this sort of occurrence I'd certainly like to hear it! The report on it is here http://waterwaynews.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/broken-paddles-cause-lock-incident.html

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1. You're in charge of your own lock

2. You can't do this from your boat

3. I have had people say 'you go down with your boat' but it remains their offer and my decision and I wouldn't do it unless I trusted their competence.

4. One paddle instead of two in no way reduces the risk of getting stuck.

 

All in all it's safest to operate locks in the correct manner which, with no coincidence, is also the most efficient.

I'm guessing you've not seen things go wrong and how quickly it goes wrong...I hope it never happens to you...

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I may be mistaken (but I don't think so) but I believe that in the lower of these two photos used to illustrate 'cillings', the boaters themselves were totally blameless. It looks like the cilling that took place on the Leeds Liverpool Canal at Johnsons Hillock bottom lock (64) and the cause of the cilling was the fact that as the boater tried to exit the lock the paddle on the bottom gate blew out causing the lock to drain. If anyone knows of a defence to this sort of occurrence I'd certainly like to hear it! The report on it is here http://waterwaynews.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/broken-paddles-cause-lock-incident.html

Both pictures are lock 9W on the HNC

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I'm guessing you've not seen things go wrong and how quickly it goes wrong...I hope it never happens to you...

 

Your guess is wrong.

 

But by locking safely and efficiently (many 1,000s of times) I have avoided any major incidents without losing any time whatsoever.

 

And yes, I hope something like the Huddersfield Narrow situation happens to me (or you) because I don't believe there's any infallible method of avoiding disaster in this situation - other than avoiding it in the first place.

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What I meant is either top or bottom gates/paddles leaking . . . I did specify "the gates behind you" . . . whether that's top or bottom gates depends on which way you're going.

 

tony dunkley, on 29 Sept 2014 - 1:51 PM, said:

In the course of this thread it's occurred to me to ask if it is the normal practice among pleasure boaters to check the gates behind you for leakage whilst working, and especially just before leaving a lock. It was something always done without fail at every lock by professional boatmen, almost subconciously, it only needs a glance, as part of the process of working a lock, partly to reduce the chance of pounds dropping behind you and also to make sure that none of the paddles were partially fouled and hadn't gone right down, slowing the lock from filling or emptying as fast as possible.

I am not going to apologise again. I understood exactly what you said after re-reading.

When making my first response to your post, (Which I misunderstood) for some reason my mind was solely thinking of locking down. After reading your remark (I think it was "why not") I re-read accepted your post and even apologised. I did not think further remarks were necessary.

However, would like to add:

Because SWMBO feels claustrophobic and hates steering in locks, yours truly does the steering and normally remains on board during such procedures. I do occasionally nip ashore to help SWMBO to crack open a paddle either because it is too stiff or save her from having to cross over a gate more than necessary, but always with a line ashore (Ready to grab not tied up) and I always return back to the boat. Yes I for one always look behind mainly to see if paddles and gates are shut properly without leaking due to blocked paddles etc. (They always leak to some degree) Also, SWMBO does get sent back on rare occasions to close a paddle she has forgotten or to close a gate that has swung open again.

Edited by Radiomariner
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It's normal practice for a(ny) boater to check all gates and paddles before locking - that would be especially those behind the boat.

 

Just to put an oar in the debate about cill notices. I think they are in the right place, on the top balance beams. This means that as you go into the lock and look to the side to judge your speed you not only see the notice but it is, at that moment, more or less over the cill marker.

 

On a 70' boat I am unlikely to pay much regard to a notice 70' in front of me.

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I am not going to apologise again. I understood exactly what you said after re-reading.

When making my first response to your post, (Which I misunderstood) for some reason my mind was solely thinking of locking down. After reading your remark (I think it was "why not") I re-read accepted your post and even apologised. I did not think further remarks were necessary.

However, would like to add:

Because SWMBO feels claustrophobic and hates steering in locks, yours truly does the steering and normally remains on board during such procedures. I do occasionally nip ashore to help SWMBO to crack open a paddle either because it is too stiff or save her from having to cross over a gate more than necessary, but always with a line ashore (Ready to grab not tied up) and I always return back to the boat. Yes I for one always look behind mainly to see if paddles and gates are shut properly without leaking due to blocked paddles etc. (They always leak to some degree) Also, SWMBO does get sent back on rare occasions to close a paddle she has forgotten or to close a gate that has swung open again.

 

What's the point of re-closing a gate that's swung open. If there was any significant leakage from the other end it wouldn't have done so. The fact that it has swung open again should be telling you that there was no point in closing it the first time.

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It's normal practice for a(ny) boater to check all gates and paddles before locking - that would be especially those behind the boat.

 

Just to put an oar in the debate about cill notices. I think they are in the right place, on the top balance beams. This means that as you go into the lock and look to the side to judge your speed you not only see the notice but it is, at that moment, more or less over the cill marker.

 

On a 70' boat I am unlikely to pay much regard to a notice 70' in front of me.

 

I asked about checking when working and just before leaving a lock . . . not "before locking".

 

Checking that the boat is clear of the cill when going downhill is the last thing to do before drawing the bottom paddles, and the person best placed to do that is whoever happens to be at the bottom gates to draw up.

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What's the point of re-closing a gate that's swung open. If there was any significant leakage from the other end it wouldn't have done so. The fact that it has swung open again should be telling you that there was no point in closing it the first time.

 

On the contrary. I find that it is top gates that usually swing open. leakage at the other would cause them to slam shut.

 

I asked about checking when working and just before leaving a lock . . . not "before locking".

 

Checking that the boat is clear of the cill when going downhill is the last thing to do before drawing the bottom paddles, and the person best placed to do that is whoever happens to be at the bottom gates to draw up.

Disagree completely. The person best suited to tell when the boat is clear of the cill is the steer'er, or somebody near the top gate. who should signal to the person at the bottom gate that it is clear to wind up the paddles. A person at the bottom holding on to a windlass "ready to go" will not have a clue where the arse-end of the boat is in relation to the cill.

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I asked about checking when working and just before leaving a lock . . . not "before locking".

 

Checking that the boat is clear of the cill when going downhill is the last thing to do before drawing the bottom paddles, and the person best placed to do that is whoever happens to be at the bottom gates to draw up.

 

My boat will always be clear of the cill because the bow will be on the bottom gate and it's easy to check this before opening the paddles.

 

 

And if you are saying a boater will check the leakage in the bottom gate before proceeding out of the lock uphill, you are, in my experience, wrong. I have never seen a professional boatman go to the other side of the bottom gate and look down before leaving the lock and don't believe this happens.

 

A person at the bottom holding on to a windlass "ready to go" will not have a clue where the arse-end of the boat is in relation to the cill.

 

depends where the bow is.

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Your guess is wrong.

 

But by locking safely and efficiently (many 1,000s of times) I have avoided any major incidents without losing any time whatsoever.

 

And yes, I hope something like the Huddersfield Narrow situation happens to me (or you) because I don't believe there's any infallible method of avoiding disaster in this situation - other than avoiding it in the first place.

 

 

A typo I hope.

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