Which comes first, the mooring or boat?

[TheyAllFloatDownHere]

Hey Boaters, how's it going?

 

Trying to get a moored boat in London (next year I'm solving Israel-Palestine, which should be simple in comparison)

 

Is it better to:

a) Purchase a boat on a mooring you don't really like, then be on the lookout for a better location (I've seen a great one, in a poor location)

Buy a boat that is so-so, but on a great mooring (seems silly to me)

c) Buy a boat, continuous cruise for a bit (in the location you desire) and be on the lookout for a mooring

d) Throw money at the problem and buy a great boat in a great location (this is also an option but would mean considerable debt)

 

Thoughts? I'm thinking a) is the most sensible. Am I right?

 

Thanks for your brain power!

 

! Random smiley face is a b. I'm an adult; I don't do emoticons..

Edited September 18, 2014 by TheyAllFloatDownHere

[alan_fincher]

Paying any kind of premium to secure a boat on a mooring in London because of the mooring is only sensible (of course) if you can adequately prove that the mooring can legitimately be transferred, and you have some security of tenure afterwards.

 

My understanding is that whilst this applies to a relatively small proportion of all London moorings, it will not apply to the vast majority.

 

So, in many cases, if you look at "boat plus mooring", it is actually worth no more than "boat", and I'm sure over the years many people will have got stung by not realising that.

 

(Sorry if my answer falls into the "teaching grandmother to suck eggs" category, though!)

[Lady Muck]

E) register for CRT website, win mooring auction, buy boat separately.

 

You can buy boats on moorings but they tend to have a big premium for the mooring like Alan says. You can get the boat first, but be prepared for a long wait in popular areas ( i.e. East/ North London), my friend wanted to win a mooring auction in Tottenham, it took her five years of trying til she got one.

West London you could get a mooring easily but everyone seems to want to be near Hackney.

[Grace and Favour]

Welllllll......

 

I guess the final sorted list of options will boil down to whereabouts in London you are looking to moor! - (and how far you are prepared to travel by land to commute/etc) In some parts of London moorings are like hen's teeth (I understand) - and others marginally less so.

 

Alan has raised a valuable point about continuity of moorings, IF you buy a boat for its mooring, you must check and be absolutely certain that you are able to take on the mooring - (do not just accept the word of the boat seller, unless they own the land, and you are purchasing it from them (and you'll be talking serious money I guess).

 

Also be aware that most moorings are let on an annual basis, (some for longer in annual increments)...but basically they offer no security of tenure.

 

There are many more boats for sale across the UK than there are moorings in London.

 

So buy the boat separately - buy one that you really like - - get the mooring when it's available - and, if possible, get the mooring first.

[FadeToScarlet]

If you need a marine mortgage to buy the boat, you have to have a mooring for it.

 

Which is why we spent nearly £2k for a postbox for a year.... And a mooring we spent about 10 days on, in total.

[Machpoint005]

Move to a sensible part of the country (anywhere north of Brum) and there is no problem.

[Dekazer]

Lady Muck is right. This will depend on where you want to live. If you're happy to live out West, it will be relatively easy to secure a residential mooring, and not too expensive. (As I mentioned on your other thread, check out Engineers Wharf, Willow Wren Wharf, High Line Yachting, Packet Boat marina, Willowtree marina). You can get your bit of water first then find a boat to float on it. You will also be able to apply for a marine mortgage if needed.

 

If you wish to live within zones 1-4 and east/north, you will struggle to find a mooring, let alone an affordable one. Buying a boat on a mooring has hazards, and you will end up paying a premium for a mooring. I know someone who paid £40k for a boat that was only good for scrap, just to get a mooring - we got one on the same site for free.

 

VC Marine is a local brokerage who sell boats with moorings, so that might be a place to check out: http://www.vcmarine.co.uk/saleresidential.html (They also use Apollo Duck, so you might have already seen these).

 

As an aside, it can be worth checking the Duck for moorings. We found our Thames mooring on there, and the advert had been up for over a month.

[TheyAllFloatDownHere]

Move to a sensible part of the country (anywhere north of Brum) and there is no problem.

 

Ha ha. I love Brum! But my heart belongs to Hackney.

[TheyAllFloatDownHere]

Paying any kind of premium to secure a boat on a mooring in London because of the mooring is only sensible (of course) if you can adequately prove that the mooring can legitimately be transferred, and you have some security of tenure afterwards.

 

My understanding is that whilst this applies to a relatively small proportion of all London moorings, it will not apply to the vast majority.

 

So, in many cases, if you look at "boat plus mooring", it is actually worth no more than "boat", and I'm sure over the years many people will have got stung by not realising that.

 

(Sorry if my answer falls into the "teaching grandmother to suck eggs" category, though!)

 

Not at all sucky-eggy. I don't want to end up buying a crap boat, just cos I'm blinded by the location.

[chubby]

An example of how much boats on moorings in Central London can / might go for can be found on ApolloDuck right now . I cant do a link - i do all my tinternet stuff on my fone .

But ( i think..... ) its a 50 ft trad , with a mooring at Wenlock basin & its on at £70 k . Its also been reduced from £80 k . I ve no idea what the boats worth but a huge chunk of the asking price is to transfer the mooring .

[Alan Saunders]

! Random smiley face is a b. I'm an adult; I don't do emoticons..

Welcome to the forum!

 

You can turn off the automatic emoticons like , and preview your post to check what we will see.

Damn, yet again, I 'unticked' 'Enable Emoticons' and still see that stupid smily face!

 

Girls think they are 'adult' at twelve, boys remain boys to their dying day!

Excellent advice above, even from male pensioners!

 

Emoticons and abreviations were essential to communications when line speeds were much poorer. Many online 'spats' are initiated by lack of a 'smiley' or a 'LOL'.

 

Alternatively, feel free to write a forum entry or an email like a formal letter; e.g.

Dear Sirs, I beg your attention to my predicamant ...

Yours Sincerely etc.

 

Your Obediant Servant, Alan

[TheyAllFloatDownHere]

An example of how much boats on moorings in Central London can / might go for can be found on ApolloDuck right now . I cant do a link - i do all my tinternet stuff on my fone .

But ( i think..... ) its a 50 ft trad , with a mooring at Wenlock basin & its on at £70 k . Its also been reduced from £80 k . I ve no idea what the boats worth but a huge chunk of the asking price is to transfer the mooring .

 

Indeed. The boat I'm considering has a massive premium on it for the mooring (whose transfer is legit as far as I can see). Thing is, I don't mind paying a bit of a premium - it's all in the game, yo - but the boat itself is WAAAY overpriced.

 

At the risk that they read this (sorry owners), can anyone tell me what sort of price one would pay for a 40ft, 34 year old Springer? Hull survey is not bad. New Mitsubishi engine added (a Land Rover engine??) but no boiler and no inverter (so no hot water on board and power problems when cruising). I'm not telling what the asking price is, but if you can guess, then... you win!

 

Much obliged.

[matty40s]

 

Indeed. The boat I'm considering has a massive premium on it for the mooring (whose transfer is legit as far as I can see). Thing is, I don't mind paying a bit of a premium - it's all in the game, yo - but the boat itself is WAAAY overpriced.

 

At the risk that they read this (sorry owners), can anyone tell me what sort of price one would pay for a 40ft, 34 year old Springer? Hull survey is not bad. New Mitsubishi engine added (a Land Rover engine??) but no boiler and no inverter (so no hot water on board and power problems when cruising). I'm not telling what the asking price is, but if you can guess, then... you win!

 

Much obliged.

 

Is it a hull survey that you have commisioned, if not, it isn;t worth doodly squat to you.

If said Springer was at Whilton Marina (with fresh single coat of blacking and hull survey by XXXXX)it would be in the £12k-£15k world - a few years ago, this would have been the £5k world, however, due to the London effect, rock bottom boats are the new growth area.

[TheyAllFloatDownHere]

 

Is it a hull survey that you have commisioned, if not, it isn;t worth doodly squat to you.

If said Springer was at Whilton Marina (with fresh single coat of blacking and hull survey by XXXXX)it would be in the £12k-£15k world - a few years ago, this would have been the £5k world, however, due to the London effect, rock bottom boats are the new growth area.

 

Interesting. They are asking more than twice that. Of course you have to factor in the mooring, which I reckon is worth about 5-8K (that's what I'm willing to pay) but still. That is some mark up!

 

Thank you very much!

[John Williamson 1955]

 

Interesting. They are asking more than twice that. Of course you have to factor in the mooring, which I reckon is worth about 5-8K (that's what I'm willing to pay) but still. That is some mark up!

 

Thank you very much!

If the mooring is legitimately transferable as a right by the vendor, then the sums that will have been done to work out the asking price are comparing it with renting a flat of similar floor area in the same postcode, and adding a bit to allow some bargaining room. This is the total monthly payment you will be making. allowing something like a 5 year "write down" period for the boat's actual value and the transfer value of the mooring. You say you are willing to pay £5-8 K for the mooring, that will be the minimum ground rent for a mooring in central London, there will be a premium payable on top of that if the transfer is guaranteed and you get the same right to sell the mooring on, and that premium will be added to the normal cost of the boat. For a residential berth in central London with the right to sell the lease on, a £30k premium is not unreasonable, in my opinion.

[chubby]

Another thing to consider is that someone selling thier boat with a transferable mooring will most likely be required to pay a sizeable percentage of the sale price to the moorings owner if the moorings are privately owned . Afterall , in many cases it is the mooring itself which is the selling point as opposed to the boat itself . The seller therefore would have to allow for this when selling

Edited September 21, 2014 by chubby

[TheyAllFloatDownHere]

If the mooring is legitimately transferable as a right by the vendor, then the sums that will have been done to work out the asking price are comparing it with renting a flat of similar floor area in the same postcode, and adding a bit to allow some bargaining room. This is the total monthly payment you will be making. allowing something like a 5 year "write down" period for the boat's actual value and the transfer value of the mooring. You say you are willing to pay £5-8 K for the mooring, that will be the minimum ground rent for a mooring in central London, there will be a premium payable on top of that if the transfer is guaranteed and you get the same right to sell the mooring on, and that premium will be added to the normal cost of the boat. For a residential berth in central London with the right to sell the lease on, a £30k premium is not unreasonable, in my opinion.

 

Ok, so just to be clear, you are talking about a leased mooring (which this is) with the right to sell that lease to the next owner (which I can). But I think I only have 2 years security on that. I mean, most people stay there for years, but not sure you are guaranteed the right to continue.

 

Blimey, £30k? That certainly explains the price tag!

Mind you, the lease is worth investing in itself...