Historic boat owners - nobs?

[Laurence Hogg]

Some of the worse boating / mooring / handling I have seen as been with persons who go out buy a boat costing a fortune, don't understand anything about boating and then think they can do what they like. An incident in Wolverhampton springs to mind with boats rafted out both sides of the cut so they could have their friends next to them but leaving passage for anything over 45ft impossible.

Some of the best boating I have seen is by hire boaters, one at Coven showed his expertise by leaving his stern rope attached, going into reverse and forcing his bow out to get underway, no shafts, no one pushing, just pure well educated technique.

Some of the worse boating I have seen as been by professional boatmen who think no one is looking, ie I have film of a BW tug producing a damaging wash en route on the Wyrley, have witnessed boats left in a terrible mess by so called "boaters".

 

So there is bad in all quarters it seems, courtesy is certainly lacking. Whilst we have been out on our boat as volunteers we have had many a boat not acknowledge the friendly wave or in some cases turn there back to you. one idiot shouted to us "you should be in prison not playing on the canals" having mistaken us for the probation service forced labour boat!

 

Having to queue at locks because people are slow, close the gates in your face etc is simply down to lack of education and common sense. Today I choose not to pleasure boat because frankly I get racked off by the whole slowed down overcrowded scene that once was our peaceful waterways, If we get asked to do a job or take a load that's different, once again albeit for too brief a time I can boat with a purpose as the reason, and strangely it makes a difference as you are doing something worthwhile.

[nicknorman]

Brother, you want to try cruising a yoghurt pot !

Although I don't know why. YPs were the norm 45 years ago when I started boating - well, maybe wooden versions I suppose. As a steel boat owner I do get slightly nervous sharing wide locks with a YP but only because I am worried about damaging it. Just yesterday I had pleasant chat with a passing YP driver who was stuck behind 2 narrowboats going really slowly in strong x-winds, about the difficulty steering under those conditions. So not all steel nb owners are arsey to YP owners! Any who are, are just that - A1holes!

Edited August 18, 2014 by nicknorman

[nicknorman]

Some of the worse boating / mooring / handling I have seen as been with persons who go out buy a boat costing a fortune, don't understand anything about boating and then think they can do what they like. An incident in Wolverhampton springs to mind with boats rafted out both sides of the cut so they could have their friends next to them but leaving passage for anything over 45ft impossible.

Some of the best boating I have seen is by hire boaters, one at Coven showed his expertise by leaving his stern rope attached, going into reverse and forcing his bow out to get underway, no shafts, no one pushing, just pure well educated technique.

Some of the worse boating I have seen as been by professional boatmen who think no one is looking, ie I have film of a BW tug producing a damaging wash en route on the Wyrley, have witnessed boats left in a terrible mess by so called "boaters".

 

So there is bad in all quarters it seems, courtesy is certainly lacking. Whilst we have been out on our boat as volunteers we have had many a boat not acknowledge the friendly wave or in some cases turn there back to you. one idiot shouted to us "you should be in prison not playing on the canals" having mistaken us for the probation service forced labour boat!

 

Having to queue at locks because people are slow, close the gates in your face etc is simply down to lack of education and common sense. Today I choose not to pleasure boat because frankly I get racked off by the whole slowed down overcrowded scene that once was our peaceful waterways, If we get asked to do a job or take a load that's different, once again albeit for too brief a time I can boat with a purpose as the reason, and strangely it makes a difference as you are doing something worthwhile.

 

I rarely agree with you Lawrence, but on this occasion you have a point. However it is perhaps a "glass half empty" point since away from the holiday season and the popular canals, peace, and calm efficiency, can still reign. And I would suggest peace can reign anywhere, anytime on the northern BCN - except during the "Challenge" of course!

[John V]

Although I don't know why. YPs were the norm 45 years ago when I started boating - well, maybe wooden versions I suppose. As a steel boat owner I do get slightly nervous sharing wide locks with a YP but only because I am worried about damaging it. Just yesterday I had pleasant chat with a passing YP driver who was stuck behind 2 narrowboats going really slowly in strong x-winds, about the difficulty steering under those conditions. So not all steel nb owners are arsey to YP owners! Any who are, are just that -A1holes!

 

Wouldn't suggest it was common but I have noticed more A holes, when on my cruiser, than when I used to helm an ex girlfriend's nb.

[smileypete]

Have you actually read the same thread as me? Or maybe you just didn't bother to read it before jumping in. I just posted to say what a pleasure it had been to pass Tench and Ilford. Others have diverted the thread onto general issues of HBs. I have repeated said that the whole "centre channel hogging" thing isn't an issue for me. The only thing I have an issue with is the seemingly higher proportion of HB owners who act aloof etc, compared to the general boating population. But of course that is not what you want to read. You want to read that I hate all HB owners on principle. So just for you I'll say it....

 

No, I just can't be bothered, even to please you.

 

Yes I have read the same thread as you... Seems to me that most don't have an issue with aloof HB owners, quite the opposite.

 

I'm sure you're unfailingly friendly to every rust bucket and rotting hulk owner and every bridge hopper...

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited August 18, 2014 by smileypete

[nicknorman]

Yes I have read the same thread as you... Seems to me that most don't have an issue with aloof HB owners, quite the opposite.

 

I'm sure you're unfailingly friendly to every rust bucket and rotting hulk owner and every bridge hopper...

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

No there are a few posters agreeing about aloof HB owners. The rest - silent majority - are probably too scared to voice an opinion in case the red hanky brigade turn up in the dead of night...

 

I always greet every boater I see in a friendly way - at least until they have proven themselves to be a-holes to my face. I might subconsciously partition boaters into shiny, historic, rust bucket, rotting hulk, bridge hopper (although you have to be familiar with the local area to apportion the last category) etc, but that categorisation would never affect my surface friendliness. Altering my behaviour towards someone on the basis of their worldly possessions is just something that is a complete anathema to me. But not on their behaviour.

 

Cue this post again about not judging a book by its cover:

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=46824&page=15#entry871668

Edited August 18, 2014 by nicknorman

[LoneWolf]

I must say, I don't notice any difference in the treatment I get steering REGINALD (half historic) and ALDEBARAN (modern).

 

I DID notice a marked difference though a few years back when I took a hire boat down from Hillmorton to Reading. Several private boaters treated me with marked snottiness/bossiness. All of them was womens BTW. (Am I allowed to notice that? )

 

MtB

 

 

(Edit to re-spell my bote name right, haha!)

 

It's mostly the womens you get to talk to though (cos the mens are too weedy to do the locking and have to drive the boat )

 

You're right though; Occasionally you meet someone who'll make a disparaging remark usually about the arrogance of about the HB owners but it's far more common to hear disparaging remarks about hire boaters.

 

I'm not sure Chesh's incidents were down to her steering a HB they sound more of a case of meeting an arsehat

[Quinafloat]

I have, on occasion, deliberately grounded my boat to allow larger vessels past. But to do so with no need is foolish, and as David Mack says, why should I give any way at all if you're stupid enough to behave thus? If you boat competently we will pass competently. I draw 3'3" and no, my boat is not historic, and no, i won't bother to alter course if you're playing victim halfway up the bank.

 

And did you feel foolish when you grounded your boat, as you expect others to do? The macho act you are putting on is just about the opposite of what constitutes considerate boating for the benefit of all concerned. Of course you could put your boat name on the forum so we know just who you are, or would that be foolish?

[alan_fincher]

We could be in trouble understanding each other now MTB has played the hire-boater card.

 

Are we always going to be able to understand from context alone when the abbreviation "HB" means "Historic Boat" and when it means "Hire Boat"?

 

I'm incidentally not actively dodging any questions, but the chance to meet a former work colleague for a few beers when miles from my home, but conveniently close to his, has proved infinitely more attractive than much of the drivel now in this thread! It's a while since I have seen as much total piffle from certain posters, (and that's not aimed at David S, to be clear!).

Edited August 18, 2014 by alan_fincher

[Orca]

Always found historic boat owners very amenable personally. I even thought I clashed with one once in the 'kink' of Braunston tunnel. Not sure of the name, but huge , high bows and an empty space where the cargo should be. I apologised, as did the steerer coming the other way. Jimsonweed vs an old historic working boat (empty) seemed to cancel each other out. It took a hell of a lot of paint/years off my rubbing strake though. How much does an empty working boat of say 60 foot+ weigh??

Edited August 19, 2014 by Orca

[cheshire~rose]

 

It's mostly the womens you get to talk to though (cos the mens are too weedy to do the locking and have to drive the boat )

 

You're right though; Occasionally you meet someone who'll make a disparaging remark usually about the arrogance of about the HB owners but it's far more common to hear disparaging remarks about hire boaters.

 

I'm not sure Chesh's incidents were down to her steering a HB they sound more of a case of meeting an arsehat

 

 

I may have mislead people into believeing I was steering when those incidents occurred but I was just crewing not actually on the helm - someone far more experienced than me was at the helm

 

The point I was making was that one of the incidents proved that the person in question (steerer of the "other boat") was an arsehat because he was fine with us when we were on our own boat but not fine with our friends on their somewhat tatty boats and not fine with us on Python. I don't believe anything could have changed his mood so significantly between meeting us at one lock and meeting our friends 2 locks later.

[Magic Potion]

As part of the parade team, I've met a lot of HB owners at Braunston Rally over the last two year and there have been only a few who have seemed standoffish. The vast majority though, are friendly and will chat to us mere mortals. :-D

[furnessvale]

Always found historic boat owners very amenable personally. I even thought I clashed with one once in the 'kink' of Braunston tunnel. Not sure of the name, but huge , high bows and an empty space where the cargo should be. I apologised, as did the steerer coming the other way. Jimsonweed vs an old historic working boat (empty) seemed to cancel each other out. It took a hell of a lot of paint/years off my rubbing strake though. How much does an empty working boat of say 60 foot+ weigh??

Not as much as some think.

 

A full length (71' 6") unconverted large Woolwich weighs 14 tons. Unlike some modern boats, the steel is comparatively thin. Weight is cargo, not lugging around unnecessary tare.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[twbm]

Any of you intending to go to the gathering at Alvecote will have the opportunity to visit Nuneaton and Brighton, look around them and talk to the volunteer crews.

 

Any of you who would like to experience steering a loaded motor and / or butty for real and develop informed opinions always have the opportunity of joining the Narrowboat Trust and doing it for real.

[phill]

 

And did you feel foolish when you grounded your boat, as you expect others to do? The macho act you are putting on is just about the opposite of what constitutes considerate boating for the benefit of all concerned. Of course you could put your boat name on the forum so we know just who you are, or would that be foolish?

You really are not very bright are you?

 

If you *choose* to boat incompetently after having proper passing technique explained to you several times in this thread - which applies no matter what you draw - you can mutter 'macho' all you like but you are still a fool.

Edited August 19, 2014 by phill

[twbm]

Now then., that last sentence is perhaps very telling......

 

An attempt at humour, nothing more. Trouble is, any attempt to defend oneself against open or implied suggestions of having any sort of 'ism' or phobia can result in searching desperately for examples that seek to prove a negative and end up prompting the 'methinks thou protesteth too much' response. The accuser meanwhile has got their inferred point home.

[twbm]

Yes of course it is the individual. But the question is, do HBs attract more than their fair share of such owners/ operators.

 

A thought: when steering Nuneaton or Brighton, I'm a long way from being an expert, and sometimes when trying to get a pair around a tightish bend with boats moored on the outside, or being caught by the wind and blown towards an endless line of moored craft, or being approached by someone who seems determined to score some sort of point by forcing us out of the channel, I'm just too damned busy trying to avoid putting 70 tonnes of boat and load through someone's dining area to be cheery. At such times I'm thinking very dark thoughts about the folk who created the situation I'm in and who are probably oblivious to the problem. If that manifests itself only as a blank expression and no cheery wave, it's a masterpiece of self control.

[nicknorman]

A thought: when steering Nuneaton or Brighton, I'm a long way from being an expert, and sometimes when trying to get a pair around a tightish bend with boats moored on the outside, or being caught by the wind and blown towards an endless line of moored craft, or being approached by someone who seems determined to score some sort of point by forcing us out of the channel, I'm just too damned busy trying to avoid putting 70 tonnes of boat and load through someone's dining area to be cheery. At such times I'm thinking very dark thoughts about the folk who created the situation I'm in and who are probably oblivious to the problem. If that manifests itself only as a blank expression and no cheery wave, it's a masterpiece of self control.

 

But that can surely apply to anybody whose boat is steering them rather than vice versa? It is pretty obvious when this is happening, even with blank facial expressions there will be activity either on the tiller, or engine controls, or both. And of course is a perfectly valid reason for forgetting to give a cheery wave. I have certainly been there myself whilst trying to avoid a catastrophe such as a twig mark on our shiny cabin sides.

 

But it is harder to make this allowance when the boat is just chugging straight ahead on an un-bendy bit, or when the folk at locks look pained at having to talk to you, or simply refuse to talk to you.

 

Anyway, I think I will start to keep a log to prove or disprove my point. The log starts of well with Tench and Ilford but let's see how it progresses.

[billS]

Anyway, I think I will start to keep a log to prove or disprove my point. The log starts of well with Tench and Ilford but let's see how it progresses.

 

Don't you think life is just too short for that sort of thing?

 

If I encountered an Historic Boat owner who was keeping a log about the attitude of leisure boat owners which he or she met, then I would conclude that they were a sad knob.

Edited August 19, 2014 by billS

[Guest]

Don't you think life is just too short for that sort of thing?

 

If I encountered an Historic Boat owner who was keeping a log about the attitude of leisure boat owners which he or she met, then I would conclude that they were a sad knob.

Absolutely, and anyway how would it 'prove' anything, you could just make the whole thing up, I think somebody needs to get a life or change their hobby.

[nicknorman]

Don't you think life is just too short for that sort of thing?

 

If I encountered an Historic Boat owner who was keeping a log about the attitude of leisure boat owners which he or she met, then I would conclude that they were a sad knob.

Absolutely, and anyway how would it 'prove' anything, you could just make the whole thing up, I think somebody needs to get a life or change their hobby.

It would only be for my own benefit, to know whether I am imagining the whole thing or not. The former seems unlikely since I wasn't born with some hatred of HB owners, my feelings are based on years of observation although of course, rather unscientific observation.

[adam1uk]

 

A thought: when steering Nuneaton or Brighton, I'm a long way from being an expert, and sometimes when trying to get a pair around a tightish bend with boats moored on the outside, or being caught by the wind and blown towards an endless line of moored craft, or being approached by someone who seems determined to score some sort of point by forcing us out of the channel, I'm just too damned busy trying to avoid putting 70 tonnes of boat and load through someone's dining area to be cheery. At such times I'm thinking very dark thoughts about the folk who created the situation I'm in and who are probably oblivious to the problem. If that manifests itself only as a blank expression and no cheery wave, it's a masterpiece of self control.

 

I suspect this is true. On one occasion I passed someone i knew who was on their deep-draughted historic-style boat, but it was at that awkward curve in Rugby where there are boats moored on both sides, and the look of concentration was such that I knew I wasn't going to get a cheery wave. In fact, I felt bad even distracting him with my own cheery wave.

 

 

An attempt at humour, nothing more. Trouble is, any attempt to defend oneself against open or implied suggestions of having any sort of 'ism' or phobia can result in searching desperately for examples that seek to prove a negative and end up prompting the 'methinks thou protesteth too much' response. The accuser meanwhile has got their inferred point home.

 

Accusers imply; other people infer.

[Tuscan]

A thought: when steering Nuneaton or Brighton, I'm a long way from being an expert, and sometimes when trying to get a pair around a tightish bend with boats moored on the outside, or being caught by the wind and blown towards an endless line of moored craft, or being approached by someone who seems determined to score some sort of point by forcing us out of the channel, I'm just too damned busy trying to avoid putting 70 tonnes of boat and load through someone's dining area to be cheery. At such times I'm thinking very dark thoughts about the folk who created the situation I'm in and who are probably oblivious to the problem. If that manifests itself only as a blank expression and no cheery wave, it's a masterpiece of self control.

 

That reminds me a few years ago on the long Atherstone pound (under the railway bridge) I was coming out of the lock when I was accosted by a lad on a bike who told me that I needed to move over as working boats were coming, when I explained we were just as deep (our previous boat) I was then told to just get out the bloody way.

 

Not surprisingly we were able to pass Nuneaton and Brighton close by with both of us staying in the centre.

[ChimneyChain]

There was a good one last week. Historic boat breasted up to modern one. There were a few boaters gathered incl me chinwagging, said breasted boats untie and slowly passes us - we all stop and look waiting to nod or wave goodbye to fellow boater - but he just looks straight ahead ignoring us on slow tickover. You can guess what was said amongst the rest of us.

 

But do we attribute this to the HB or cloneboat? none - it's the individual.

What boat was that then ???

 

Darren

[mark99]

What boat was that then ???

 

Darren

 

I won't name it on a forum.