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Claiming from hire company for damage


pearley

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I've often wondered, how does a waiver like that work out for you in the long run. Do you profit, lose or just about break even?

 

Edited

 

Well it's based on average statistics formulated by some of the removal organisations. Ideally you're supposed to profit from it of course. But in reality that all depends on how many people take the waver. The actual amount of times a key arrives after 2pm is probably around 1 in 10 moves, but that might only be up to an hour late.

 

Up to 2 hours late is about 1 in 25

 

We just have to hope we get more value in waver fees in than we lose out in covering the time. We generally profit, but it's not a fortune. It's a good service to offer though as many people moving house do realise this can be a problem. So like any insurance they might play safe and pay the waver.

Edited by Julynian
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Not quite. The hirer is still legally liable, but by him paying the CDW, the hire company has agreed to pick up any bills for damage.

 

Deero me, didn't you read the terms and conditions I posted, they are from one on the top canal boat hirers in the country.

 

You are also incorrect again. The payment of a CDW is to insure against the cost of the hire boat companies required deposit. This has also been explained in the thread.

 

Again you are completely clueless.

 

Again the boat is insured by the hire company, so the hire company are the insured and liable to anyone that claims for damage.

 

More terms from the hire company.

 

9. Accidents

The Hirer is in charge of the boat and is responsible for its safe navigation and return. In the event of any accident or damage to the boat other craft or the waterway the Hirer must:-

1 Obtain and record the name and registration number of the other boat and names and addresses of all parties involved including the other boat owners and other hirers.

2 Notify the Company by telephone immediately with full details of the accident including damage incurred.

3 NOT IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ADMIT OR ALLOW OTHER PERSONS ON THE BOAT TO ADMIT LIABILITY TO ANY OTHER PERSON.

4 Not to carry out or have carried out repairs without the consent of the Company.

5 Obtain and follow the company’s instructions.

In the event of an accident the Company may repossess the boat and the hiring contract shall then terminate without liability on the Company. In the event that the Company’s insurance cover is prejudiced or invalidated by any failure on the part of the Hirer to comply with the provisions of this condition the Hirer shall indemnify the Company in respect of all liability claims, loss, damage or expenses incurred. The Hirer is liable for and shall indemnify the Company against any claim or charge made by any Navigation Authority for damage to waterway property or loss of water.

 

Quite clearly the hire company wouldn't require such of the hirer if the hirer was indeed liable as some Txxxxs on hear are still claiming but offer no such evidence to back up their twaddle.

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despite some almost insulting comments about my post I am right in my opinion that it is the person in charge of the boat that is responsible for any damage they cause, the fact fact that the hire company or their insurance company may cover that risk is irrelevant.

 

It is the old China Barn thing, "if you break it you pay for it"

 

That's not what you said though in your original post though.

 

the fact fact that the hire company or their insurance company may cover that risk is irrelevant.

 

 

So indeed you now accept the hirer isn't liable! At least someone is beginning to catch on LOL

 

It is the old China Barn thing, "if you break it you pay for it"

 

 

The most the hirer pays is loss of whatever deposit he/she pays. The company are liable for the claim and any claim for accident damage should be made against th company and not the hirer.

Edited by Julynian
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Deero me, didn't you read the terms and conditions I posted, they are from one on the top canal boat hirers in the country.

 

You are also incorrect again. The payment of a CDW is to insure against the cost of the hire boat companies required deposit. This has also been explained in the thread.

 

Again you are completely clueless.

 

<snip>

Hmm. I though that I had posted the T&Cs.

 

Perhaps we should all make an effort to be avoid rude comments about other posters. unsure.png

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Julynian you still don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that the reason the hirer doesn't pay is that he is insured for the risk, it does not matter who takes out that insurance the initial responsibility for any damage is with whoever causes it and he or she may choose to insure that risk so avoiding having to pay out of their own pocket.

 

If I were to damage another persons boat I would be liable but because I have insurance I pass the liability to pay for that damage to the insurance company who should settle the claim on my behalf and then probably punish me when I re-insure by way of an increased premium.

 

By the way I worked for several years for a company that hired vehicles and had to deal with insurance claims on a regular basis.I well remember a customer who hired a vehicle from us and had an accident, it turned out that he had made false statements on the insurance form and the insurance company refused to honour it's commitment. We had to take the hirer to court to recover the cost of the damage to our vehicle and the other party did likewise to recover their costs.

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Julynian you still don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that the reason the hirer doesn't pay is that he is insured for the risk, it does not matter who takes out that insurance the initial responsibility for any damage is with whoever causes it and he or she may choose to insure that risk so avoiding having to pay out of their own pocket.

 

If I were to damage another persons boat I would be liable but because I have insurance I pass the liability to pay for that damage to the insurance company who should settle the claim on my behalf and then probably punish me when I re-insure by way of an increased premium.

 

By the way I worked for several years for a company that hired vehicles and had to deal with insurance claims on a regular basis.I well remember a customer who hired a vehicle from us and had an accident, it turned out that he had made false statements on the insurance form and the insurance company refused to honour it's commitment. We had to take the hirer to court to recover the cost of the damage to our vehicle and the other party did likewise to recover their costs.

 

Julynian you still don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that the reason the hirer doesn't pay is that he is insured for the risk, it does not matter who takes out that insurance the initial responsibility for any damage is with whoever causes it and he or she may choose to insure that risk so avoiding having to pay out of their own pocket.

 

It's you who doesn't understand. Responsibility yes, but not liability, they are different things.

If I were to damage another persons boat I would be liable but because I have insurance I pass the liability to pay for that damage to the insurance company who should settle the claim on my behalf and then probably punish me when I re-insure by way of an increased premium.

 

You are responsible but you are not liable.

Your insurance takes on the liability because you request and pay for that risk to be covered. If you rent a hire boat the hire company insures the boat. The claim is made against the boat owner, not the hirer.

By the way I worked for several years for a company that hired vehicles and had to deal with insurance claims on a regular basis.I well remember a customer who hired a vehicle from us and had an accident, it turned out that he had made false statements on the insurance form and the insurance company refused to honour it's commitment. We had to take the hirer to court to recover the cost of the damage to our vehicle and the other party did likewise to recover their costs.

 

 

I hardly see the relevance. We're talking about who a boater claims from in the event of an accident. I've posted 2 accounts of hire boaters terms and conditions. I'm astonished you claim to have worked for an insurance company, if you knew anything about insurance you would clearly glean from the hire boat company terms and conditions I'v posted, which are pretty general throughout the hire boat industry, that the hire company are liable and the people you claim from in the event of an accident involving the hire boat company . The hirer's liability ceases at the deposit level he/she pays, or any waver to cover that deposit requirement.

 

As stated I have been through this and have had legal advice. This subject was brought up sometime ago when starcoaster made a claim for accident damage. She claimed from the hire boat company, not the hirer.

 

It really is unfortunate that people post such nonsense based on no evidence at al l. Good luck claiming from the hirer if your boat's rammed by a hire boat wacko.png

Edited by Julynian
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smiley_offtopic.gif While we are discussing insurance, please could I have some advice about the liabilities of a hirer, which have never been clear to me. To use the ABC terms & conditions again:

 

7. Insurance
The Company insures the boat and its equipment and inventory against public liability risks. The Company’s insurance does not
cover personal accidents or loss or damage to personal effects.
Hirers and their crews are advised to take out their own personal insurance cover. The hirer shall pay a compulsory non-refundable accidental damage waiver of £50.00 per booking. Accidental damage waiver excludes damage arising from speeding, contact with a lock
cill causing damage to the rudder, skeg or stern gear, TV aerials, chimneys, negligence, malicious or intentional damage to the boat. Also excluded is negligence, malicious or intentional damage to other boats and property and the late return of the boat and return of the boat in unclean condition.
The Hirer will indemnify the Company and the Boat Owner against all costs, damage, expenses, liability and claims howsoever arising from the negligence, neglect or default of the Hirer to the extent that they are not covered by the Company’s policy.

 

I would like to know if the hirer is liable just for repairs to the boat if the sit it on the cill. What about the cost of towing the boat if the damage is serious? And what would happen if the cilling sank the boat in a lock and required specialists with lifting gear, plus the cost of refurbishing the boat.

 

I'm not aware of any hirers having been faced with huge bills but it would be interesting to know the answer.

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smiley_offtopic.gif While we are discussing insurance, please could I have some advice about the liabilities of a hirer, which have never been clear to me. To use the ABC terms & conditions again:

 

7. Insurance

The Company insures the boat and its equipment and inventory against public liability risks. The Company’s insurance does not

cover personal accidents or loss or damage to personal effects.

Hirers and their crews are advised to take out their own personal insurance cover. The hirer shall pay a compulsory non-refundable accidental damage waiver of £50.00 per booking. Accidental damage waiver excludes damage arising from speeding, contact with a lock

cill causing damage to the rudder, skeg or stern gear, TV aerials, chimneys, negligence, malicious or intentional damage to the boat. Also excluded is negligence, malicious or intentional damage to other boats and property and the late return of the boat and return of the boat in unclean condition.

The Hirer will indemnify the Company and the Boat Owner against all costs, damage, expenses, liability and claims howsoever arising from the negligence, neglect or default of the Hirer to the extent that they are not covered by the Company’s policy.

 

I would like to know if the hirer is liable just for repairs to the boat if the sit it on the cill. What about the cost of towing the boat if the damage is serious? And what would happen if the cilling sank the boat in a lock and required specialists with lifting gear, plus the cost of refurbishing the boat.

 

I'm not aware of any hirers having been faced with huge bills but it would be interesting to know the answer.

 

Surely the first 5 words of the TC's answers that.

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If you are going to rubbish my posts please read them first, I did not work for an insurance company I worked for a hire company.

 

Thank goodness at last you have acknowledged my point that the insurance company takes on the risk from the hirer as I have said all along.

 

I am now bored with this subject and will disappear back into my hole which you seem to think I belong judge.gif

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If you are going to rubbish my posts please read them first, I did not work for an insurance company I worked for a hire company.

 

 

Which ever, I'm still shocked you cant understand simple terms & conditions supplied by boat hire companies which totally contradict you claims.

 

 

 

Thank goodness at last you have acknowledged my point that the insurance company takes on the risk from the hirer as I have said all along.

 

No you haven't, NOT until your partial climb down in post 91 where you seem to have seen some light. I have stated all along that the hire companies insurance is where liability lies.

 

 

Maybe you should read you initial post again LOL

 

Post 30

 

I am surprised that nobody has pointed out that the fact that this boat was a hire boat is totally irrelevant. WHY

Your claim is against whoever was in charge of the boat at the time of the incident. INCORRECT

up to the steerer to decide if they want to involve the insurance company or settle directly and avoid losing there deposit. INCORRECT

If that person was a minor, for instance, and decides not to go to the insurance (maybe because of age or they are not covered by the policy) then you will have no choice but to sue them personally as you would if it was a car accident. INCORRECT

The hire company has no liability and are quite in their within rights not to get involved if they so choose INCORRECT

 

 

 

A complete and utter load of cods wallop, backed up with nothing what so ever.

 

I am now bored with this subject and will disappear back into my hole which you seem to think I belong

 

 

Well if you choose to post such nonsense then can't defend what you claim, then I suggest that's a good solution. And where exactly have I been insulting?

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smiley_offtopic.gif While we are discussing insurance, please could I have some advice about the liabilities of a hirer, which have never been clear to me. To use the ABC terms & conditions again:

 

7. Insurance

The Company insures the boat and its equipment and inventory against public liability risks. The Company’s insurance does not

cover personal accidents or loss or damage to personal effects.

Hirers and their crews are advised to take out their own personal insurance cover. The hirer shall pay a compulsory non-refundable accidental damage waiver of £50.00 per booking. Accidental damage waiver excludes damage arising from speeding, contact with a lock

cill causing damage to the rudder, skeg or stern gear, TV aerials, chimneys, negligence, malicious or intentional damage to the boat. Also excluded is negligence, malicious or intentional damage to other boats and property and the late return of the boat and return of the boat in unclean condition.

The Hirer will indemnify the Company and the Boat Owner against all costs, damage, expenses, liability and claims howsoever arising from the negligence, neglect or default of the Hirer to the extent that they are not covered by the Company’s policy.

 

I would like to know if the hirer is liable just for repairs to the boat if the sit it on the cill. What about the cost of towing the boat if the damage is serious? And what would happen if the cilling sank the boat in a lock and required specialists with lifting gear, plus the cost of refurbishing the boat.

 

I'm not aware of any hirers having been faced with huge bills but it would be interesting to know the answer.

 

The hirer is required to pay a deposit. If the hirer does any damage to the boat he hires or another boat he/she will lose all or part of that deposit depending on the cost of repair. I would think the hire company would charge for any costs repairs/towing resulting from the hirers negligence. If the damage is more than the deposit, the hire company have a choice to make a claim from their insurance.

 

I concede, you are so certain of your facts that to argue further would be foolish. I'll buy you a beer next time I am passing on the k&A

 

Fair play Tommy. I do know what I'm on about, when I have to pay for legal advice I listen LOL

Edited by Julynian
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The hirer is required to pay a deposit. If the hirer does any damage to the boat he hires or another boat he/she will lose all or part of that deposit depending on the cost of repair. I would think the hire company would charge for any costs repairs/towing resulting from the hirers negligence. If the damage is more than the deposit, the hire company have a choice to make a claim from their insurance.

 

I don't understand about the deposit. When I hire a boat I pay the advertised price (less any available discounts) plus the cost of the damage waiver that the majority of companies charge on top. Are you referring to a deposit as an alternative to the damage waiver?

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Next time I book a hire boat I will ask for an explanation of what I could potentially be charged if I sit their boat on a cill.

 

The reason hire companies weather they hire out boats or cars ask/require for a deposit is that generally insurers also require an excess for each individual policy even for private policies. So the hire company doesn't have to pay the access, they ask the hirer to offset that cost with either a deposit, or a pay a smaller fee for damage waver which is non refundable.

 

If the damage to either the hirers boat or a 3rd party boat exceeds the hirers deposit or he purchased a waver, the hirer has now removed himself from the extent of his liability. The hire company can choose to involve his insurance company if there's a third party claim. The 3rd party claims against the Insured "the hire company" The hirer could though be sued by the hire company if they can prove some kind of negligence by them. That's between the hirer and the company though. The hire company is obligated to the 3rd party claimant.

Edited by Julynian
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I don't understand about the deposit. When I hire a boat I pay the advertised price (less any available discounts) plus the cost of the damage waiver that the majority of companies charge on top. Are you referring to a deposit as an alternative to the damage waiver?

 

No edited

 

Sorry I meant Yes, If you didn't pay for a Collision Damage Waver, they would ask for a cash security deposit instead. They can take this from a CC and refund it if there's no damage to the car/boat

 

The CDW wavers the need to leave/pay a deposit. You dont get the CDW fee back though, it's and insurance policy.

Edited by Julynian
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No edited

 

Sorry I meant Yes, If you didn't pay for a Collision Damage Waver, they would ask for a cash security deposit instead. They can take this from a CC and refund it if there's no damage to the car/boat

 

The CDW wavers the need to leave/pay a deposit. You dont get the CDW fee back though, it's and insurance policy.

Thanks. I would be interested to know of hire companies offer this option, having a good track record for returning boats intact.

 

Decades ago, I remember a friend paying a deposit to avoid the damage waiver, but when I have asked, this was not an option. ABC, the largest hire company, refers to the damage waiver as a compulsory extra charge, as I believe do others. Some companies do charge a refundable deposit for single-sex parties, WiFi dongles, extra windlasses and the like.

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Without wishing to cloud the waters any further, it should be noted that in the credit / debit card age, making a refundable deposit is becoming a thing of the past.

 

If you read all the small print very carefully, you will find that when you sign a hire agreement, you are agreeing to the company being able to make an additional charge to your card in the event of damage to the hired item, over and above the basic agreed cost of the hire.

 

You still have the option of paying the CDW at the initial time of the hire to obviate this.

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Removing the requirement of paying for the usual deposit boat hire companies require usually around a £500.00 deposit.

From experience, most hire companies will only require such a deposit in the event of 'same sex' bookings such as hen/stag parties etc...something about increased likelihood of alcohol fuelled shenanigans..??
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I suspect you are wrong on this occasion also.

 

Where I think you are definitely in the wrong is in your rudeness to 'tommytelford'.

 

Quite

 

To Julynian:

 

I'm not in the insurance industry so, as I said earlier, I'm no expert. Because I'm no expert, I can't really post with any authority as I don't really know what I'm talking about.

You on the other hand appear to be posting with complete authority. From the tone and content of your posts, I think you might be that dangerous specimen - the person who doesn't know that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

LOL, as you keep saying.

  • Greenie 1
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