Is C&RT's Boat/Location Logging System Fit for Purpose?

[Guest]

No, in complete contrast with their approach to maintenance and repairs their enthusiasm for the surveillance of boat owners knows no bounds.

Yes I understand, some boaters would have us believe this, however others (the vast majority perhaps) manage to stay within what is required of them so perhaps don't feel it so strongly?

Edited August 16, 2014 by The Dog House

[Higgs]

 

And - you think C&RT will be worried by this ?

 

My home mooring and my 'local BBQ' spot are within the same place (about 6 miles apart)

 

Friday night out of the marina to the 'BBQ spot', Sunday back home, repeat each weekend (when we are not cruising)

 

If data recording takes place at weekends, (and apparently Lock movements are not included in the sightings data), I would be a permanent moorer at the "BBQ spot".

 

 

This would be an idiotic state of affairs. Not really very intelligent and not the act of a responsible organisation.

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

If something like a non-return in 28 days is used, it would fly in the face of any practical use of the canal by local moorers who would find it impossible to travel further afield in short weekend periods. Local moorers are going to need local places.

There was me thinking people thought that an average of about 2 miles from place to place was just a short distance or was that only for Continuous Cruisers? Surely a 1 hour cruise is even manageable by boaters with a home mooring?

[Guest]

This would be an idiotic state of affairs. Not really very intelligent and not the act of a responsible organisation.

Indeed and given the numbers of boaters (many thousands I would suggest) who's exact regular cruising pattern this is it is unlikely to come into being I would say, but totally idiotic as you say if it does.

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

This would be an idiotic state of affairs. Not really very intelligent and not the act of a responsible organisation.

Surely a responsible organisation have realised that it is not only Continuous Cruisers that block certain mooring spots and that having the same boats moored at the same moorings every weekend makes it difficult for visiting boats

In fact I know that CRT have realised that the VM problems are not caused by CCers

Indeed and given the numbers of boaters (many thousands I would suggest) who's exact regular cruising pattern this is it is unlikely to come into being I would say, but totally idiotic as you say if it does.

But we are all ready seeing the spread of no return for 28 days on certain VMs

[Higgs]

There was me thinking people thought that an average of about 2 miles from place to place was just a short distance or was that only for Continuous Cruisers? Surely a 1 hour cruise is even manageable by boaters with a home mooring?

 

 

Yes, 1 hour is very doable. I think it obvious, though, that there is a difference between what is possible by a home moorer and a CC'er.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Higgs

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

Yes, 1 hour is very doable. I think it obvious, though, that there is a difference between what is possible by a home moorer and a CC'er.

I accept that but 2 miles is less than 1 hour anyway I am as has been said only looking into a crystal ball. Just find it hard to believe at least one year of work has gone into making maps for the benefit of such a small minority of boaters about 15%

Edited as post took on a religious tone thanks to predictive text

Edited August 16, 2014 by cotswoldsman

[Guest]

But we are all ready seeing the spread of no return for 28 days on certain VMs

Very true yes I had forgotten that, and if that was implemented across the board we are very lucky I guess in that doing a relatively short hop can get you to a few nice and different VM spots in a relatively short time and enable us to stick to a no return in 28 days ruling quite easily.

 

I realise of course not everybody is going to be that lucky though.

[Tony Dunkley]

Yes I understand, some boaters would have us believe this, however others (the vast majority perhaps) manage to stay within what is required of them so perhaps don't feel it so strongly?

That actually reads as if you may be agreeing with me, and, if so, it could land you in big trouble. I have been told that C&RT read these Forums.

Edited August 16, 2014 by tony dunkley

[Higgs]

Surely a responsible organisation have realised that it is not only Continuous Cruisers that block certain mooring spots and that having the same boats moored at the same moorings every weekend makes it difficult for visiting boats

In fact I know that CRT have realised that the VM problems are not caused by CCers

But we are all ready seeing the spread of no return for 28 days on certain VMs

 

 

On a first come, first served basis, I don't care if I can't moor at any particular place. Something has to give. Not knowing which of the boats are CC or home moorers, a certain amount of resignation of the limited facilities must be accepted.

[Alan de Enfield]

The spacings do seem very 'random'

 

If we look on the Trent - then there are four 'places' in 38km of river (Meadow Lane to Newark) , but when we get onto the canal at Meadow lane there is only 200 yards between the lock and Bridge 1a - that 200 yards is a 'place'

 

Then between bridge 13 and bridge 14 (another 3-400 yards) is another place.

 

Places are certainly NOT parish's

 

It would be very easy to CC / work / live in Nottingham shuffling around 4 or 5 places (unless there are requirements to do x number of different 'places' in a year) and not being much more than a 15 minute bus ride away from the centre.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[bassplayer]

Yes, 1 hour is very doable. I think it obvious, though, that there is a difference between what is possible by a home moorer and a CC'er.

Whilst I believe any proposed new rules are a waste of time, isn't it also a case that some choose to have a home mooring and others don't ....the main reason I chose to be a CC'er is that I enjoy travelling around and mooring in different places.

[Higgs]

Whilst I believe any proposed new rules are a waste of time, isn't it also a case that some choose to have a home mooring and others don't ....the main reason I chose to be a CC'er is that I enjoy travelling around and mooring in different places.

 

I suspect that as you prefer to moor in different places, that is the way CRT like it. As far as choosing to have a mooring, and thus being limited to a range, circumstances of lifestyle force people to take moorings. It is not that they wouldn't also like the freedom to CC, but they haven't.

[cotswoldsman]

The spacings do seem very 'random'

 

If we look on the Trent - then there are four 'places' in 38km of river, but when we get onto the canal at Meadow lane there is only 200 yards between the lock and Bridge 1a - that 200 yards is a 'place'

 

Then between bridge 13 and bridge 14 (another 3-400 yards) is another place.

 

Places are certainly NOT parish's

As a child did you ever play "Stick the tail on a donkey?" Maybe CRT played a version of that with these maps as I have said in other discussions on this some places seem to take no account of what moorings are available in the marked out places

[MtB]

 

 

It's blindingly obviously work in progress and not official policy.

 

Yes it may end up being policy eventually, but my points was that is it not policy now.

 

And yes I DO think they waste a lot of money on pointelss stuff. Look at the 48hr VMs on thwe shroppie for example.

 

 

MtB

Edited August 16, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[Alan de Enfield]

............ seem to take no account of what moorings are available in the marked out places

 

Good point looking at the 'Places' on the R Trent some of then only have one, or maybe, two places to moor, and they are 48 hour moorings.

 

Take the 'Gunthorpe' Place - the only moorings that spring to mind are at the locks, so 48 hours at Gunthorpe and Hazelford.

 

So you cannot stay the full 14 days anyway

[Tony Dunkley]

When C&RT bring their Place Map into use, it could possibly help to reveal more about the defects in the Boat/Location Logging System.

[bassplayer]

....force people to take moorings....

Life choices! ...I doubt anyone has forced you to have a fixed mooring....

[Higgs]

Life choices! ...I doubt anyone has forced you to have a fixed mooring....

 

 

No one forced me. It was a decision made by me. I could not sustain a CC lifestyle. Your choice, my choice; both valid. I'll make your choice....when I'm ready.

[Higgs]

I accept that but 2 miles is less than 1 hour anyway I am as has been said only looking into a crystal ball. Just find it hard to believe at least one year of work has gone into making maps for the benefit of such a small minority of boaters about 15%

Edited as post took on a religious tone thanks to predictive text

 

 

There has been a great deal of confusion, mostly about how to stay the right side section 8. If this 'Places' map helps, then, it wil go some way in helping clarify some ambiguity and hopefully avoid misunderstanding.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Higgs

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

There has been a great deal of confusion, mostly about how to stay the right side section 8. If this 'Places' map helps, then, it wil go some way in helping clarify some ambiguity and hopefully avoid misunderstanding.

Ok really nice of CRT to spend all that money and time on 15% of boaters to avoid a misunderstanding and the very small amount of boaters that get a section 8 and given plenty of warnings and time to straighten their act will take no notice of the maps and carry on as usual let's discuss the maps in a couple of years time Edited August 16, 2014 by cotswoldsman

[NigelMoore]

Ok really nice of CRT to spend all that money and time on 15% of boaters . . .

 

Perhaps an element of that bigger picture behind the wings that you prognosticate, involves rolling out the CC rules for 100% of boaters as the Dunkley case suggests – in which case CaRT would not see it as a disproportionate effort and expenditure.

 

Bear in mind that if they succeeded in having their interpretation of the law upheld in that respect, it would not necessitate them enforcing against the weekenders with home moorings, it would just mean that they had the toolkit to deal with those they wished to pursue - for whatever reason seemed good to them.

[MtB]

 

Perhaps an element of that bigger picture behind the wings that you prognosticate, involves rolling out the CC rules for 100% of boaters as the Dunkley case suggests – in which case CaRT would not see it as a disproportionate effort and expenditure.

 

This is a good point which would certainly explain the astonishingly slack and generous definition of CCing accompanying the map.

 

(Should the map as published turn out to be anything like the final version eventually adopted as policy.)

 

 

MtB

[cotswoldsman]

 

Perhaps an element of that bigger picture behind the wings that you prognosticate, involves rolling out the CC rules for 100% of boaters as the Dunkley case suggests in which case CaRT would not see it as a disproportionate effort and expenditure.

 

Bear in mind that if they succeeded in having their interpretation of the law upheld in that respect, it would not necessitate them enforcing against the weekenders with home moorings, it would just mean that they had the toolkit to deal with those they wished to pursue - for whatever reason seemed good to them.

Prognosticate to a bigger picture....me...as if!! CRT do most things with a bigger picture and as the SEVM has shown and a few other things they have realised that when it comes to overstaying and over use of moorings boaters with a home mooring can be just as guilty as CCERS.

[Jim Riley]

where does one place begin and end, I can see the markers, is the boundary equidistant between them? what about those who moor just one side of the boundary and then move to just the other side of it? I can see how it would work with Parishes, where there are known boundaries........