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Is C&RT's Boat/Location Logging System Fit for Purpose?


Tony Dunkley

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I have followed this thread with interest on the basis that "there, but for fortune go I" especially now that C&RT have published their restrictive definition of 'place'.

 

I and many others, with or without a 'home mooring', believed we were cruising within the terms of our licence. A reasonable police force warns, caution's and reprimands those suspected of disdemeanours. As a parallel, none of us have a right to park a vehicle on the public highway, even in front of our own property, but even if we park in a clearly marked restricted place we do not have our licences revoked. The powers apparently invested in C&RT and often, apparently, missaplied by them are dispraportionate to any inconvenience caused. All backed up by their aggressive attitude; my car tax reminder is very polite; C&RT say "Licence it or Lose It!" Who would not want to kick back against such a belligerent organisation? Even though they are now, supposedly, an independent body they continue to demonstrate the assured, overpaid jobs for the boys attitude that has expanded our inefficient Civil Service (the real Government) way beyond our means.

 

I wish Tony D well, but he has not contradicted in this thread the C&RT case that whilst declaring a valid, non C&RT mooring his boat was permanently moored near Holme Lock. Whilst this may be within the letter of the law I doubt it was the intention of the law. Personally I would accept their offer which may leave you in peace or, at least, delay proceedings and allow you to put forward a good case. I am particularly concerned by their accusation that you misused a houseboat - a boat without an engine or means of propulsion.

 

Alan

Thanks for your good wishes.

 

C&RT never actually went as far as accusing me of permanent mooring near Holme Lock, but they claimed "overstaying", and then, in effect, withdrew that themselves by admitting in writing that I had been "moving after 14 days".

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I for one would love to see Mr Parry come on here (or by any public means) and address what does look like bullying tactics. I'd also like his view on how any sensible conclusion or evidence can be derived from poorly sampled and audited data. Maybe political suicide, maybe not.

 

It does seem that the media is being used more and more to create self policing by fear...even the BBC seem to be doing it...maybe the only way out is to switch it off and enjoy life while we can....

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I have followed this thread with interest on the basis that "there, but for fortune go I" especially now that C&RT have published their restrictive definition of 'place'.

 

Point of order M'Lud...

 

CRT have most certainly NOT published their restrictive definition of 'place'. The URL of their technical map under development has been prematurely leaked by someone trusted to keep it a secret.

 

Otherwise there would be a public link to it on the CRT website.

 

 

MtB

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Point of order M'Lud...

 

CRT have most certainly NOT published their restrictive definition of 'place'. The URL of their technical map under development has been prematurely leaked by someone trusted to keep it a secret.

 

Otherwise there would be a public link to it on the CRT website.

 

 

MtB

Leaks work....well in this case...

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I for one would love to see Mr Parry come on here (or by any public means) and address what does look like bullying tactics. I'd also like his view on how any sensible conclusion or evidence can be derived from poorly sampled and audited data. Maybe political suicide, maybe not.

 

It does seem that the media is being used more and more to create self policing by fear...even the BBC seem to be doing it...maybe the only way out is to switch it off and enjoy life while we can....

 

In my experience there are always two sides to every story and invariably the truth lies somewhere in the middle. We're only reading one side of the story.

 

I would hope Richard Parry has far more useful and important things to do. I suspect he's far to intelligent to allow his valuable time to be consumed in a wave of queries, questions and inuendo.

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It is not quite empty, although it will have been regarded with contemptuous dismissal as to any ill effect. It is not different to starting this and other threads – they are all means of exposing the proceedings to the light of public scrutiny. Unfortunately, Mr Parry firmly believes that litigation and removal of dissident boaters from his bailiwick is the most appropriate and effective avenue for asserting control.

 

He also has grounds for confidence that many boaters will cheer him on as he pursues this course, so in his eyes the “threat” is just a “promise” to publicise the CEO’s commitment to meeting boater demands for a crack-down on the 'non-compliant'. So if he is genuine in his belief that he is doing the right thing, in other words, then all this is excellent publicity he doesn't have to pay for.

 

As for boaters caught up in this maelstrom of anxieties and distress - just how many avenues of recourse do they have [i speak only of those believing they are legitimate and law-abiding], other then throwing the situation open to the world for their observations? It is natural in such circumstances to believe that the executive would fear that, but it is a sadly naïve belief. One positive way of looking at the 'threat', therefore, is to see it as an expression of jejune confidence in the morality of the chief executive.

. . . or one more opportunity to show his true colours. He had 3 weeks to respond to that in private, and had been patronisingly dismissive in replies to previous moderately worded and very unthreatening communications.

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In my experience there are always two sides to every story and invariably the truth lies somewhere in the middle. We're only reading one side of the story.

 

I would hope Richard Parry has far more useful and important things to do. I suspect he's far to intelligent to allow his valuable time to be consumed in a wave of queries, questions and inuendo.

Yes that's true, but have you bothered to consider why you are only seeing one side? Do you think abuse of powers and inappropriate and money wasting litigation that could result in someone being made homeless are not important?

 

PS. Full marks for a bit of really nauseating grovelling. I don't think you'll be getting any "tickets" on your boat for a while.

Edited by tony dunkley
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I would hope Richard Parry has far more useful and important things to do. .

Like what? Is dealing with unhappy customers and a dysfunctional system not important? Are you happy that licence fees are being wasted on failed court cases? I'd rather we all try to work together, rather than fight it out in courts...the money should be going into keeping the waterways maintained so we can all use them...

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Yes but the belief that the map is now official CRT Policy is spreading like wildfire, when it is no such thing.

 

MtB

Bit of a waste of about 1 year putting it all together unless the intention is to make it official or maybe you think they did it because there was nothing better to do
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PS. Full marks for a bit of really nauseating grovelling. I don't think you'll be getting any "tickets" on your boat for a while.

How would that work then?, Given Costalot hasn't revealed the name of their boat?

 

Surely if that was the case they would have to have done so.

Edited by The Dog House
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What like it was their 'tinkering' department what did it?

No it was the "Map Department" they will then pass it onto the "Tinkering Department" who will then pass it onto the "How can we use this to change some rules for boaters with a home mooring department" who will pass it onto the "Let's make it no return to a place for 28 days for boaters with a home mooring department"
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. . . or one more opportunity to show his true colours. He had 3 weeks to respond to that in private, and had been patronisingly dismissive in replies to previous moderately worded and very unthreatening communications.

Well that throws a completely different light on the subject. If you have been moderate and nonthreatening in earlier correspondence in an effort to be conciliatory only to be patronizingly dismissed in replies from the CEO then I can understand your current attitude.

 

As you have already published CRT emails would you be prepared to publish your earlier emails to the CEO along with his replies on this forum? This might tend to have more readers sympathize with your predicament!

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How would that work then?, Given Costalot hasn't revealed the name of their boat?

 

Surely if that was the case they would have to have done so.

C&RT personnel will identify him by the state of his knees.

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No it was the "Map Department" they will then pass it onto the "Tinkering Department" who will then pass it onto the "How can we use this to change some rules for boaters with a home mooring department" who will pass it onto the "Let's make it no return to a place for 28 days for boaters with a home mooring department"

I just wish CRT would concentrate on maintaining the infrastructure rather than policing. The vast majority of us don't take the piss so why worry about a tiny minority? It's worked for many years so what's changed?

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C&RT personnel will identify him by the state of his knees.

I rather thought they were too busy trying to spot the pee takers to be able to find time to be doing routine 'boaters knee inspections' as well.

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I just wish CRT would concentrate on maintaining the infrastructure rather than policing. The vast majority of us don't take the piss so why worry about a tiny minority? It's worked for many years so what's changed?

Why not enforce the tiny minority with the current stuff well maybe not so tiny in the South. As I have said I personally have no problem with the maps but fail to see how this is going to help with the problem areas. IMO once CRT have established places it will be used for more than just enforcing non compliant Continuous Cruisers there is a bigger picture at play here

I guess this really be in the PLACES thread

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No it was the "Map Department" they will then pass it onto the "Tinkering Department" who will then pass it onto the "How can we use this to change some rules for boaters with a home mooring department" who will pass it onto the "Let's make it no return to a place for 28 days for boaters with a home mooring department"

 

I think your crystal ball is probably right.

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I think your crystal ball is probably right.

 

 

If something like a non-return in 28 days is used, it would fly in the face of any practical use of the canal by local moorers who would find it impossible to travel further afield in short weekend periods. Local moorers are going to need local places.

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I rather thought they were too busy trying to spot the pee takers to be able to find time to be doing routine 'boaters knee inspections' as well.

No, in complete contrast with their approach to maintenance and repairs their enthusiasm for the surveillance of boat owners knows no bounds.

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If something like a non-return in 28 days is used, it would fly in the face of any practical use of the canal by local moorers who would find it impossible to travel further afield in short weekend periods. Local moorers are going to need local places.

 

And - you think C&RT will be worried by this ?

 

My home mooring and my 'local BBQ' spot are within the same place (about 6 miles apart)

 

Friday night out of the marina to the 'BBQ spot', Sunday back home, repeat each weekend (when we are not cruising)

 

If data recording takes place at weekends, (and apparently Lock movements are not included in the sightings data), I would be a permanent moorer at the "BBQ spot".

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