How can some get away from paying for a license

[Tony Dunkley]

No. If all boats paid for a license then maybe us lock keepers might get paid a reasonable wage increase for once

On C&RT's own figures it costs £2.18 million p.a. to run the Enforcement Team, the primary function of which is to combat Licence evasion. Not doing too well really . . . "piss-taking" perhaps?

[magnetman]

Its a bit dodgy that a person can crane a boat in without needing it to be licensed, knowing it is going onto the cut

Without a license ...

[Ange]

Some boats do have a hull number, mine has, but it would be a ten minute job to knock up a phoney one and tack weld it in place of the original. (see you have got me thinking like a criminal now ) I am unsure if they are all as basic as mine though. Thinking about it I saw one recently where the number was done in mig weld on the tunnel band.

Very easy to start getting into the criminal mindset with no bad intentions once your brain starts wondering

 

We're lucky that Doug Moore left lots of welded signatures to indicate that it was one of his and the build number.

 

We've added a few sneaky signature that a repaint wouldn't hide so I don't think Iona could just be repainted and then not recognised.

 

From all the "missing boat" threads and in particular the Que Sera saga you do worry about these things

[magnetman]

So the person with the crane is making profit and CRT then have to pay out to enforce the unlicensed boat.

 

Why don't CRT seal up the gaps

[alan_fincher]

I am sat with other boaters that have been looking at your replies well done you have put them off joining this forum

 

If they were going to post any more "look at all these baots without licences" stuff, then I for one am grateful for that!

[Graham Davis]

To Adam the Wonderer:

Did you look at both sides of the boat to check whether the licence was only displayed on the tow-path side?
No, of course you didn't, because that wouldn't have made such a good rant, would it?

[Ange]

If they were going to post any more "look at all these baots without licences" stuff, then I for one am grateful for that!

Or they might even have started threads about those dreadful ccers not paying for moorings they don't need or the council tax they don't pay because, hmm, they're not legally obliged to!

 

Yep, me too

[Jim Riley]

When I got my boat it was a shell, previous owner had dropped it in with a hiab, then realised the responsibility of no registration number, licence, mooring and bss. I told bw the tale, they sent me a pair of plates with new number, for a fee.

 

The nub of travelling combat style is when you get to a manned lock etc the lockie can refuse to let you through. Until you are properly attired.

 

Edit ti corrupt productive tixt

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jim Riley

[Pete & Helen]

Bottom line is we all want a level playing field and if you/I pay our licence we expect everyone else to as well

Edited July 20, 2014 by Pete & Helen

[Guest]

Bottom like is we all want a level playing field and if you/I pay our licence we expect everyone else to as well

I don't think that is in dispute is it?

 

The issue here however is assuming just because a boat is not displaying a valid licence not necessarily meaning it isn't actually licenced and how much interest we take in another boats licence status whilst we are out and about boating.

 

Yes of course it's a stipulation that we display one (but possibly not for much longer) but there can be a number of reasons why a boat isn't. We have in the past gone for several weeks without displaying a valid licence but I didn't lose any sleep about it nor did the CRT bod who once scoped us out whilst we were moored at Alrewas with out of date discs on display. He just tapped the details into his little hand held thingimybob and didn't bat an eyelid about the heinous crime we had committed by not displaying the discs that were sat at home on my desk 150 miles away.

[MtB]

I don't think that is in dispute is it?

 

Isn't it?

 

I thought both Ange and Starcoaster had expressed the view that they paid their own licences and weren't bothered about what other people did, i.e. whether they paid theirs or not. See post 60 for an example.

 

MtB

[cotswoldsman]

A bloke at Chas Harden Boats on the Shroppie was telling me how he spotted a boat displaying a licence 12/15

Apparently it was a hire boat. They were printing their own licences. Pity they were a bit thick!

In June 2012 I was in Leeds and as a CCer I always have problems getting my licence via the post so thought I would pop into the office and see if I could do my licence there and then even though it does not run out until end November. It was no problem I paid up and they printed a licence for me 11/13 so in 6/12 I was displaying a licence 11/13 if I so wanted I could go now and pay for 3 years and display a licence 11/17 CRT would be happy to issue licences as long as you like the more the better I imagine

[cotswoldsman]

On C&RT's own figures it costs £2.18 million p.a. to run the Enforcement Team, the primary function of which is to combat Licence evasion. Not doing too well really . . . "piss-taking" perhaps?

Tony I think that is some time ago. Last year the Trustees a located a further £500,000 and switched the focus back to enforcement

Edited July 20, 2014 by cotswoldsman

[magnetman]

I didn't realise you could buy more than a year at a time with the cruising license.

 

I thought it was a one year contract end of story.

 

So could I buy 10 years now to avoid future license fee inflation??? Might be quite a sound option but I don't think it is an option.

 

Happy to be wrong

Actually as I intend to be on the water till I stop breathing maybe paying 40 years up front now would save me loads of money...

No. 4 years MUST be the max as the BSS would complicate it

I can see how they would do a single year a bit in advance but I don't see them 'selling' more than a year st a time. I know they do it with moorings but they haven't started auctioning cruising licenses (yet

[cotswoldsman]

I didn't realise you could buy more than a year at a time with the cruising license.

 

I thought it was a one year contract end of story.

 

So could I buy 10 years now to avoid future license fee inflation??? Might be quite a sound option but I don't think it is an option.

 

Happy to be wrong

Actually as I intend to be on the water till I stop breathing maybe paying 40 years up front now would save me loads of money...

No. 4 years MUST be the max as the BSS would complicate it

I can see how they would do a single year a bit in advance but I don't see them 'selling' more than a year st a time. I know they do it with moorings but they haven't started auctioning cruising licenses (yet

yes good point had not taken that into my calculations I guess you can buy as far ahead as they know the increases so guess maybe 18 months ahead might be the limit but then I think for the next 2 years licence increase is pegged at 2.5% so to be displaying a licence 12/15 is not really to far from what I had when I bought my licence in 6/12 for 11/13

[John V]

Just an odd thought, when you are buying in advance how do CaRT check for insurance/Bss ?

[magnetman]

BSS would be on their system as it is all electronic now, and they ask you for insurance details which they (randomly?) check.

Pretty sure you would not be able to beyond the end of the year the bss expires and I still think its a one year license.

[Lady Muck]

CRT are always looking for volunteer data checkers now's your chance. Their own figures show that license evasion is around 4% which they consider acceptable and that to drive it lower would not be worth the resources required.

4% is also the accepted returns rate for a shoe factory. Any more than that you need to sort your quality control out. would cost you too much money to get it down any lower. Fascinating factoid of the day.

[John V]

Just an odd thought, when you are buying in advance how do CaRT check for insurance/Bss ?

 

 

BSS would be on their system as it is all electronic now, and they ask you for insurance details which they (randomly?) check.

Pretty sure you would not be able to beyond the end of the year the bss expires and I still think its a one year license.

 

Yes but only for the current year...would you be able to licence beyond the year that your BSS / Insurance expires?...with annual licence the time a boat could be without either is limited

 

(just this seems to be possible with purchasing a longer period as has been indicated as available ?)

Edited July 20, 2014 by John V

[magnetman]

I feel if a period longer than 12 months were available it would be offered.

 

Is it? I've never seen it but not looked very hard to be fair.

[Guest]

Isn't it?

 

I thought both Ange and Starcoaster had expressed the view that they paid their own licences and weren't bothered about what other people did, i.e. whether they paid theirs or not. See post 60 for an example.

 

MtB

I think we can expect people to do something but then it all depends how much we allow ourselves to get wound up by the fact that that someone doesn't comply.

 

I expect other boaters to pay their way but am not going to get too wound up about it, particularly when the displaying of a licence is not a reliable indicator of a boats licence status. I will leave to Ange and SC to comment on their own posts.

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

 

Yes but only for the current year...would you be able to licence beyond the year that your BSS / Insurance expires?...with annual licence the time a boat could be without either is limited

 

(just this seems to be possible with purchasing a longer period as has been indicated as available ?)

In my case my insurance expires in July so when I buy a yearly licence in November my insurance is only valid for part of the licence period

[John V]

wasn't bringing it up as a major point....just working the idea through following the comments about much longer periods...

[cotswoldsman]

wasn't bringing it up as a major point....just working the idea through following the comments about much longer periods...

Well maybe CRT should look at including 3rd party insurance in the licence

[nicknorman]

What I don't get is the folk who leave licences up showing expiry date in 2009 or the like, but when you do the boat-checker thing they are currently licenced. Do they leave the ancient one up and fail to display the current one out of laziness, or out of devilment?

 

 

Well maybe CRT should look at including 3rd party insurance in the licence

Actually that seems a good idea. Surely a better rate could be obtained for such a bulk purchase and it would clear up the "expired mid way through the licence period" problem. It would just require the boat insurance companies to offer a product that didn't include 3rd party liability, not too difficult surely?

Edited July 20, 2014 by nicknorman