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River canal Rescue, worth joining?


trebby91

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Perhaps that was my misunderstanding. Your question about being broken down in the pouring rain in the middle of nowhere was in response to my post, so it seemed to suggest that I needed RCR cover. Perhaps it was just the tone of your post. Anyway, we're both agreed that people should make their own choices on the matter.

 

It was my post looking back that was appearing to be bolshy blackrose old boy and on reflection I owe you an apology.

 

Tim

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I've towed boats that RCR have walked away from or given stupid prices to....I work on the principle that I'm happy to tow someone as one day it might be me needing a tow......other boaters did comment that I was mad to do it for free but I reckon what goes around comes around...and in one case we were treated to a very nice Thai meal and have become friends with the crew of the broken down boat.

 

I was a member but after seeing how they treated the boats I offered to tow and heard the advice given to them by the RCR mechanics & contractors I'd rather save my money and like blackrose employ my own engineer who knows about vintage engines.....I also carry an extensive toolkit and spares so like to think I can fix most things unless I snap a crank or similar.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

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  • 2 years later...

ok what do you all think to this estimate. the fuel leak is from one of the injection pumps engine is a Isuzu 38.

Dear Mr James Maccuaig, Please find below details of the work required. Job Number: 104392 Member Code: Craft Name: Supplier: 210642 Still Game RCR Details: fuel leak from the injectors from the bolts. Pictures below. Notes: Following on form your conversation with the engineer in the office, we have prepared and estimate to undertake the work to remove your injection pump and send to specialist for investigation. If the issue is due 'a unforeseen mechanical failure' then these costs will be covered by your RCR membership with just a £50 excess, and even if we find a broken spring or washer this will activate the claim. However as the pump is leaking and their is diesel in your oil there is a chance this is just a seal issue related to age and deterioration. Attend and disconnected pipes and remove injectors and injection pump/s Take for refurb and return and refit fitting new gaskets Bleed system and test This is an estimate so costs can go up or down depending on parts or labour used to complete your job. Any labour time outside of the estimate will be charged at £22.50 per half hour. All parts are charged at RRP. You will only ever pay for parts or labour that are used. Please note that this is a rough estimate based on a typical installation requirements. Item Name Quantity Unit Price Total Price Injection pump/s 1 £450.00 £450.00 Labour & travel over 2 visits 6 £40.00 £240.00 Canal Contracting Charge 1 £50.00 £50.00 Total Cost: £740.00 River Canal Rescue Ltd trading as Canal Contracting Company Registration No: 4126409 VAT Registration No: 823673325

Edited by macc
put engine type in
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I`m more concerned about an item that is covered in their parts replacement not being covered due to age and the say gaskets or rubber seals are not covered yet I can`t see anything in the T & C about this , to me  if the say they will not pay due to age wear and tear then not unless the engine or parts are new then they won`t.

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4 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

This would be enough for me to say shove it, and watch youtube videos on how to fix myself!

Twenty years ago I would have done and indeed did do 99 percent of my servicing/repairs, however joints etc have made me somewhat change my views I suppose.

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5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

How bad is the leak? can you continue and just get it fixed at your leisure or do you need to call em out? I treat them strictly as emergency cover personaly.

diesel is getting into sump and leaking from top of pump don`t want to risk over run.

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4 minutes ago, macc said:

I`m more concerned about an item that is covered in their parts replacement not being covered due to age and the say gaskets or rubber seals are not covered yet I can`t see anything in the T & C about this , to me  if the say they will not pay due to age wear and tear then not unless the engine or parts are new then they won`t.

All I can say is that if you have read my post of a couple of years ago they were awesome. Turned up xmas eve and boxing day and replaced gearbox driveplate without any questions as to age etc etc. Total cost 50 quid and boy was I happy on a commercial waterway on a cold Christmas holiday season without having to try and even obtain a drive plate.

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Just now, mrsmelly said:

Twenty years ago I would have done and indeed did do 99 percent of my servicing/repairs, however joints etc have made me somewhat change my views I suppose.

this would have been easy for me to fix but I have heart disease and i`m under Papworth again  so look like more stents time I also have to look after wife who is a paraplegic.

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5 minutes ago, macc said:

this would have been easy for me to fix but I have heart disease and i`m under Papworth again  so look like more stents time I also have to look after wife who is a paraplegic.

Yes exactly I remember doing everything my self for years but now with creaking joints and medical problems I don't do anything like as much hence having rcr cover. I do change my oil as its a doddle on this boat and do other stuff but less and less :blush: a dear friend of mine is still only a baby hes 46 and he does loads of stuff for me which is very good of him, a proper mate.

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On 7/30/2014 at 12:38, b0atman said:

why would people pay for gold membership ? silver covers your boat why cover other boats ?

Lend or 'rent' their boat to someone who is not a family member, silver only covers family members ie sons daughters etc.

 

My two call outs in the last 5 years have been fast and good, one was a stupid fault they fixed in seconds, the second was a chafed coolant hose, they even added the correct antifreeze when they topped up.  They were helpful when my domestic alternator fried, they came diagnosed confirmed the fault, said not a covered item and told me who to ring, no charge for the call out.  It did cost me 180 quid for a replacement alternator swap though, poor bloke on the cruiser stern in the snow fitting it.

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After 28 years without membership, I joined last year. Pre RCR, the worst I had was a failed starter motor, which on Perkins 4108M is an out and out special, I was lucky to be in Lincoln and a short bus ride away from the Lucas Main Service agent. As we now cruise longer and further, (and the knees and back are not so supple), I reasoned that having a 'one call' number from anywhere in the country was an advantage. Silver membership also gives replacement parts cover, granted with some caveats, but this is still a good deal. You can't blame RCR for conditions, as there are always some who will push the boundaries bordering on fraud. Being a member does not stop you being responsible about boat ownership, with regular servicing, carrying first line spares, and carrying out minor repairs without their involvement. I accept there are some who would take the attitude 'If I'm paying for it, they'll jollywell provide it' but that is folk. I know some folk who carry a spare wheel in their car, but would still call the AA for a puncture.

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38 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

After 28 years without membership, I joined last year. Pre RCR, the worst I had was a failed starter motor, which on Perkins 4108M is an out and out special, I was lucky to be in Lincoln and a short bus ride away from the Lucas Main Service agent. As we now cruise longer and further, (and the knees and back are not so supple), I reasoned that having a 'one call' number from anywhere in the country was an advantage. Silver membership also gives replacement parts cover, granted with some caveats, but this is still a good deal. You can't blame RCR for conditions, as there are always some who will push the boundaries bordering on fraud. Being a member does not stop you being responsible about boat ownership, with regular servicing, carrying first line spares, and carrying out minor repairs without their involvement. I accept there are some who would take the attitude 'If I'm paying for it, they'll jollywell provide it' but that is folk. I know some folk who carry a spare wheel in their car, but would still call the AA for a puncture.

I carry spares on my boat for routine maintenance ie filters alternator belts spare alternator would I call them to replace an alternator belt no I would not, this is a part that has failed and like your starter motor is covered in their t & c, like your starter motor would you be happy if your starter motor failed and they told you its not covered due to age wear and tear,they also told me that if its the rubber seals in the injection pump its not covered yet as in their T & c  it states rubber seals that require routine wear and tear replacement are not covered yet this rubber seal is not something that you would replace on a regular interval or servicing. 

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Earlier this year we had to call RCR when the engine suddenly started knocking. The initial call out response was very quick but the diagnosis was new engine required. We were then transferred to Canal Contracting the sister company of RCR who handle all their major works. We got a phone call asking if we could move the boat down to a boat yard a couple of miles away where the engine would be lifted out; I pointed out that we haven't yet had a quote. If it is a new engine then I would drive the boat down not caring if I did more damage, however if my engine was to be rebuilt I would need to have it towed so no more damaged would be done. 
An estimate was sent through with just a cost for an engine on it. I then got a call to say that was not correct as it hadn't been finalised and was sent in error. A couple of days later I got various estimates and the best option seemed to have my engine rebuilt. The cost of the replacement engine had gone up considerably, obviously the error was I was sent their price prior to mark up.
We got towed to the boat yard and the engine lifted out. Weeks passed without any info on when my engine would be returned, eventually I called them and was told that the crank was so badly worn that it needed replacing which would cost more than the original estimate.
A new estimate was sent but some of the prices had changed, they had missed out delivery charges and the lift in/out cost had changed from £175 to £400 so obviously I queried this. It took a couple of days to get a response from them, during which time I spoke to the boat yard. The owner of the boat yard told me that he had told them the cost before I even got the boat there, £250 for the lift out and £150 for the lift in. The reason for the higher charge for the lift out was because he charged £150 for the lift out, £50 labour to clear a load of wood out of the way to accommodate us and £50 to strap the engine up on a pallet; I thought this was fair enough. It did however differ with Canal Contracting's explanation which was that the £175 was a standard price to lift out and in on the same day, they had no idea it would be different and because the lift out and lift in were being done on different days it would cost double.
I then pointed out that we originally agreed to have our engine sent off for repair so obviously the lift out and in would be on different days. Eventually they had to admit their mistake and split the cost. 
However now my engine was going to cost a lot more to have repaired, I was then offered a reconditioned industrial block with my top end fitted to it and it would be cheaper than the price originally agreed on for mine to be rebuilt and also quicker to turn around. At this point I had been waiting 6 weeks to have this job done, not fun when living aboard and it is a 3 mile walk across muddy fields to get petrol for the genny. I had had so many estimate that had mistakes on or the prices kept changing that I insisted on a fixed quotation for the complete job.
You think this has been a long winded post just getting to agreeing on the job, the installation comes next and that is where the fun begins, please bear with me.

A week later the engine still hadn't arrived, I was told that it was a bit smokey on start up and the engineer wanted to leave it on the test bed to bed in. So a bit ominous to start with. They finally arranged the fitting of the engine but the guy who removed it wasn't available so another engineer turned up. The guy who removed the engine had trouble getting some of the wires out so he cut the plugs and intended to fit new ones. The guy fitting the engine spent 8 hours fitting it and trying to work the wiring out. He got it running ok but had problems with the fuel stop solenoid, this is what took up most of his time. Eventually he decided it was working backwards and he needed to fit a relay to make it work in reverse. I lost confidence in his electrical knowledge when he got a 5 pin relay out of the van instead of the 4 pin he thought he had picked up and I had to explain how it worked. I also wasn't happy with the idea of reversing the solenoid as this would mean it would be permanently energised when the ignition it on and takes power away to shut off the fuel. Even this he couldn't make work and eventually had to admit defeat.
Next we get a phone call to say they are sending a retired Lister expert to sort it out as we seem to have too many wires on our (standard Lister) wiring loom and he would be the best guy to sort it out. They then went on to explain his charges, which we disputed and asked if they were going to cover them, they said they would cover two hours. We didn't really care at this point as we had a quote that clearly stated fit engine, wire up and test. We didn't care what they did to achieve their quoted price as long as they got it done. I then asked if he was going to finish the installation as the last guy only put water in and no antifreeze, no he is only going to sort the wiring.

So the expert turns up spends 3 maybe 4 hours working out that yes the lever needs pulling from the bottom not the top and it needs a different part on the end of the shaft. He then rewired the relay with a lashed up button so I could hold the button in on start up to get the engine running. He tells me that RCR have the necessary part as he sold them all his stock when he retired and he would send them a detailed report. During this visit I noticed that there was water leaking from the exhaust gasket and the oil pressure gauge and temperature gauge were not working. On this block was an oil pressure switch instead of a sender unit.

The next guy out sorted the leaking gasket, fitted the oil pressure sender and put antifreeze in the system and purged it. He fitted the stop solenoid which was a waste of time as Canal Contracting had sent him out with exactly the same part.
But with the lashed up switch and antifreeze in the block I could at least get underway after 8 weeks stuck in one spot.

The saga doesn't end there, oh no it goes on, and on.
The temp gauge still doesn't work, the boat only starts with a lashed up button and is still smokey on start up.
I receive an email saying that as my loom has so many spare wires they recommend sending out a replacement unit with the guy who is coming to fit the new shaft on the solenoid. I replied to this email telling them that this is ludicrous as if the temperature gauge is on the wrong wire fitting a new one to it will have the same fault. It was proved by their expert to not have wiring problems but an engineering difference in the layout of the block and they still seem to think a standard lister loom has too many wires. I then fixed the temperature gauge myself by using the advance engineering principal of looking at the back of the gauge and then looking in the engine hole for a wire of a corresponding colour. 
Next they sent out the guy who built the engine up in their workshop, with the correct part. Oh deep joy at last it is all going to work, or not as it turned out. 4 hours later he admitted defeat. He had removed the unnecessary relay and button and fitted the new plunger but had trouble aligning it to make it work. He decided to phone the expert and return. A few days later he was back after reading the report that was sent in and talking to the man who wrote it. At last it worked I could start and stop the engine normally.
A month later the bill came in with an additional charge for the experts time. I paid them the amount quoted only, explaining again that it clearly stated instal, wire and commission the engine for the agreed price.

Two days later the stop solenoid fell apart.

So I got down the engine hole to take a look. I'm no mechanic but I have spent my life doing electrical installation work. It took me 10-15 mins to figure out what the problem was and why he had problems setting it up and it took a further 10 mins to fix it properly.
Not only did the solenoid need to be angled slightly downwards (the bracket accommodates this) so it connected to the bottom of the stop lever instead of the top, but it needed aligning along the direction of the plunger. The problem was that because it didn't line up the only way to make it work was to leave the connecting bolts loose so there was some play in it or the magnets wouldn't have the strength to pull the plunger in; this is why the vibration of the engine eventually undid the bolts.
Now for the really advanced engineering bit, the solution was to take out the M6 bolts holding the solenoid in place and change them for longer bolts with washers in between and then tightening up all the bolts.
4 engineers 5 visits and nearly 20 hours and it takes a non mechanic with two bolts and 6 washers 25mins to sort the problem out.


So RCR breakdown seems ok but I'll never use Canal Contracting again.

 

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These people are not engineers. Mechanical engineers have professional qualifications.Are RCR 'engineers' members of any professional engineering body? If you claim to be a medical doctor when you are not then this can be a criminal offence if you practise as such. There is no such protection for the engineering profession. The majority of people who call themselves engineers are at best 'technicians' and one wonders at times just how much training they have had to perform even this limited role. Regards, HughC.

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10 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

After 28 years without membership, I joined last year. Pre RCR, the worst I had was a failed starter motor, which on Perkins 4108M is an out and out special, I was lucky to be in Lincoln and a short bus ride away from the Lucas Main Service agent. As we now cruise longer and further, (and the knees and back are not so supple), I reasoned that having a 'one call' number from anywhere in the country was an advantage. Silver membership also gives replacement parts cover, granted with some caveats, but this is still a good deal. You can't blame RCR for conditions, as there are always some who will push the boundaries bordering on fraud. Being a member does not stop you being responsible about boat ownership, with regular servicing, carrying first line spares, and carrying out minor repairs without their involvement. I accept there are some who would take the attitude 'If I'm paying for it, they'll jollywell provide it' but that is folk. I know some folk who carry a spare wheel in their car, but would still call the AA for a puncture.

Exactly this. Although RCR were not around 28 years ago wen we started I would have been a member if they had been. For me they are an emergency get me out of trouble service I wouldn't entertain them for anything major I would use people I know or by personal recommendation for such stuff. I am a bronze member that's all we require and it still gives the parts as specified cover. I can change my car tyre but I wouldn't drive without car roadside cover. We are at present off on yet another long term cruise ( Health permitting ) using in the next twelve months waters between York and Bristol so its just piece of mind for less than the price of one pint of beer per week.

  • Greenie 1
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