What would be the original throttle on a big Northwich be?

[alan_fincher]

We therefore have a valuable resource of photos of GUCCC boats in pretty much their original form. Some of the best photographs are in the collection of Audrey Hunt now passed to her son John Mornington (and his copyright.) Here is a picture taken out of the Sun's hatches.

 

 

It seems fairly clear to me that no speed wheel was fitted here and I could even be persuaded to believe I can just see the quadrant handle just to the right of the word Collection.

 

 

I can also convince myself that there is a wheel there, just aft of what I'm guessing is your 'quadrant handle'.

I can see either, depending on what I want to see

 

Tim

 

 

 

For a speedwheel to be usable and sufficiently close to the hatchway I think it would clearly show in silhouette.

 

Paul

 

It is a fascinating photo.

 

I find Paul's argument pretty compelling.

 

If there were a speed wheel in anything approaching the usual position they are now found, I think you would clearly see it.

 

It's a while since I have read any of the "Idle Women" texts, but do they anywhere actually describe the operation of the controls of of the boats?

[Steve Priest]

Sorry to join this discussion so late. I am however of the belief that the GUCCC boats (at least the Woolwich ones) were delivered with cable throttle controls and a small quadrant handle. This information was given to me by I think 3 different sources - former boatman Charlie Green and Brinklow Boats amongst them.

 

GUCCC boats were designed with a number of innovations which worked poorly in practice. Well known are the "liner" funnels which were awkward to take down for low bridges and the cabinside panelling which made it impossible to remove the engine 'ole roof to lift engines out. But there were other less-known features such as the continuous cants on the counter which met the gunnels with only small and inadequate limber holes for drainage and the oil pressure gauge - not on the roof where it is usually seen today but in the "castle panel" on the weatherboard just inside the doors. I imagine the cable throttles didn't stand up to "robust" use by boatmen and were replaced in early dockings on the regularly crewed boats.

 

Some of the boat crewed by the wartime "idle women" had been laid up for some time and were quite shabby so its is unlikely that many modifications apart from the removal of the hugely impractical funnels had taken place.

 

We therefore have a valuable resource of photos of GUCCC boats in pretty much their original form. Some of the best photographs are in the collection of Audrey Hunt now passed to her son John Mornington (and his copyright.) Here is a picture taken out of the Sun's hatches.

 

 

It seems fairly clear to me that no speed wheel was fitted here and I could even be persuaded to believe I can just see the quadrant handle just to the right of the word Collection.

 

You would think that as features were found to be impractical on the "small" boats these would have been designed-out by the time the "large" boats were delivered up to 2 years later but this doesn't seems to have been the case at least with the cants and the panelling.

 

I don't think its is likely we will ever find a clear photograph of a quadrant cable throttle control but the absence of speedwheel is easier to see.

 

I would hope the OP preserves the existing set-up as an interesting reminder of how things (probably) were. It's also one less thing to bang your head on!

 

Paul

You may have joined it late Paul, but not as late as me!

 

Years ago I had heard rumours that G U boats originally had a cable throttle control but didn't think much about it until I bought Aquila back in 93. At the time I was disappointed that the boat didn't have a speedwheel, but looking at the lever and cable I began to think that Aquila probably has never had one.

 

I talked to quite a few people about it, I remember Ian Kemp and Tom Lapworth in particular, and the story I was coming up with is that the lever and cable version was original, the speedwheel was a later modification, and that the speedwheel was first fitted by a boater who had found one of those upper window opening mechanisms that used to be fitted to high factory windows and adapted it and fitted it to his boat, the engineers saw it and decided to start making them to replace the cable throttles.

 

The picture of Sun is not very clear, but I can make out that it is a lever and is the same as the one I still have in Aquila. They are fairly small, brass, or bronze, and have no ratchet, they work by friction. Tom Lapworth said that a few boaters preferred them, and so some did survive. He told me that he used one himself at one time. They have a small screw or bolt in the centre, which needs to be nipped up from time to time to stop the throttle slipping, so I keep a spanner in the ticket draw so that I can do so whenever needed. They seem to have been made for a Bowden type sheathed cable, but I think they were fitted with a bare cable working over a small pulley on the engine room roof.

 

Originally, I kept the one in Aquila because I am pretty sure it has always been here but I'd have to say that I have got used to it and now prefer it, I would post a picture but I haven't a clue how to. I think Nutfield still has one, and we fitted one to Antlia

which was actually being used as a stop lever when the front half was a separate boat. I also remember Ron Wilson, who was a dredger and dragline driver for BW at one time, telling me that they were fitted to Ruston Bucyrus draglines, so they may well have been a standard throttle lever available at the time

[FadeToScarlet]

Interestingly, Margaret Cornish talks of a "speed cable" to pull on when starting a National- which presumably wouldn't work with a Speedwheel. I'm trying to find other references to what sort of controls there were.

[Laurence Hogg]

Interestingly, Margaret Cornish talks of a "speed cable" to pull on when starting a National- which presumably wouldn't work with a Speedwheel. I'm trying to find other references to what sort of controls there were.

On some speedwheel set ups you could pull the wheel back for instant acceleration of the revs, I believe the late Ike Argent had this on his own boat.

[Mike Tee]

Controls on 'Nutfield' taken October 2012.

Does this show what you want?

 

[pete harrison]

Controls on 'Nutfield' taken October 2012.

Does this show what you want?

Probably not as NUTFIELD has a speed wheel and clutch rod, pretty much the same set up as fitted by Blue Line Canal Carriers Ltd. when they fitted the Lister HB2 in 1968.

[X Alan W]

Old boaters used to talk about travelling at "Full cable rate" - there's a clue for you!

Some of the boatmen used to jam their tobacco tins in between the throttle wire & cabin roof/roof beam on boats with cable throttle set ups thinking they would get the throttle wider open, but it mostly only took the slack out of the cable, as if the arm was against the stop on the fuel pump that was all you were going to get. thy would still argue with you though that they were certain they had more power ( some also liked lots of smoke & sparks from the exhaust ) especially exiting empty narrow locks they always thought they were getting more power. if they were or not was debatable I preferred the least amount of smoke & hopefully no sparks ( except when the soot in the exhaust pipe caught fire, then it was little red hot lumps of soot/carbon, only when working the motor hard after a lot of light empty running )

[fittie]

There is a picture of Lancing's throttle on the gallery but I can't seem to post it here or rather I can't remember how to do it.

[roland elsdon]

We were informed of the instant acceleration feature on fenny,'s speed wheel. Strangely once I had tightened up the appropriate slack to stop the screw thread being damaged the feature disappeared.....