Opinions please on two boats I like!

[Tiller Trash]

Hi all

 

I've looked at several boats over the last few weeks now, and I've narrowed it down to two I like. I'd like your knowledgeable advice please! On both boats, if I were to make an offer, it would be a fair bit lower than the asking price.

 

Both boats have a GRP (fibreglass) top, which due to loads of searching on the forum, I know several of you say avoid, and some others love! Personally from the searches I've done, no one has said anything that would make me run in the opposite direction!

 

This one, perfect layout for me (has an area to do my art without having to keep packing everything away after). I love that it's very original (I don't do modern, I was born in the wrong era), and it appears to have been looked after. I also, after chatting with a long time boater, like the trad stern, for reasons of it giving more space inside, and keeping you warm while on the move in winter. The negatives as far as I'm concerned are it has no water heater and no shower, both of which I would have to have fitted, so more cost. Also I'm a little scared that with that trad stern with nothing around the edges so to speak, I might step back and knock my ickle dog into the canal lol!

 

http://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/2965.aspx

 

This one on the other hand, has had loads of work done, subject to a satisfactory survey of my own, it is ready to go with no work to be done, or to cost me more money! On the minus, there isn't anywhere to leave my art out so I would constantly be packing it all away every time, which as I'm a lazy bugger I know I just won't bother to do it. Also as it's a cruiser stern alongside the lack of interior space, it means being cold when travelling in the winter, but at least I can sit outside in the summer lol!

 

http://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/2950.aspx

 

Any advice greatly received. I have viewed both in person and pulled things around! Before making an offer on either I would view again when it's raining to see if there are any leaks in the GRP!

 

Thank you kindly

 

 

[RLWP]

The solid fuel stove on Calliope is little more than a toy

 

Richard

Edited July 8, 2014 by RLWP

[Graham Davis]

Calliope. No shower! Very strange layout with that "thing" in the middle.

[Alan de Enfield]

To be honest - neither of them. There are much better £20k boats out there than either of those 40 year old boats.

 

If you are in a desperate hurry and cannot wait then the better of the two is Scorpio.

 

Suggestion - Stay in your 'trailer' until you find some another ones.

 

There is a 50 footer for sale on this forum (in the for sale section) for about £20k.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya TTTO.

Did I read that the water capacity in both was 100/150 Litres !, is that enough for you !.

Although one had been rewired, one only had a 300w inverter, so only really ok for TV, and rechargeable devices, so think hard if you're going to livaboard.

[Grace and Favour]

IF you went for Scorpio, I'd put a solid fuel stove in her - - Webasto's are fine, though expensive to run (compared to a solid fuel stove) - and you would most likely need to run the stove 24/6 through the winter months

[KenK]

Second one makes more sense as a liveaboard, it is ready to go and seems from the photographs to be in good condition.

I don't know how much space your art requires but would it not be possible to use the cratch area?

How far are you likely to travel in Winter and would that swing the deal towards the first boat, would it really be that much warmer.

Does the first boat have any hot water, the stove doesn't seem to have any pipes connected and I can't see a heater in the kitchen?

Choice is obviously yours but I'd think long and hard about how much it would cost both in money and time to turn the first one into a boat you could live on. Space is always at a premium on a boat so you'll have to learn to be tidy.

 

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

 

Ken

[David Mack]

Also I'm a little scared that with that trad stern with nothing around the edges so to speak, I might step back and knock my ickle dog into the canal lol!

 

I would be more worried that in the confined space of a trad stern back deck you might trip over the dog, and go headlong into the water yourself.

 

You really should have the back deck to yourself. We always lifted our late labrador Rosie onto the cabin roof when we were under way. She would lie there quite happily all day, and out of everybody's way. Apart from sometimes in locks when the cabin top came level with the lockside she would leap off!

 

 

The solid fuel stove on Calliope is little more than a toy

 

Richard

Agreed. Very difficult to control a stove like this. The popular low cost alternative is the Boatman stove. At least there is good access to replace that pot belly.

[KarlosMacronius]

Cant get my head around the layout in the first one. where do you plan to sleep? they're both quite old so have the potential to cost money sooner rather than later.

 

of the two I'd go for the second as its ready to go (has a fridge, 1st one doesn't) and has been blacked more recently and with 2 pack (I'm assuming the other is just bitumen as it doesn't state 2pack.)

 

As for the trad stern, we knocked our dog into the cut in the middle of the night, she has since learned to wait for the doors to be opened BEFORE getting on and to not get under our feet when we're moving (she lies above the engine where its warm)

[p6rob]

Just a couple of observations, Calliope only has one leisure battery, Although I liveaboard, I'm rarely awake on my boat during the week, don't have a tv, fridge is gas and all lights are LED. Even with my meagre power use, I've had to fit a third battery. Also the make up double beds... ...It looks like, if it's made up, the rear bed will make the rear door unusable. If you add a shower and water heater will that eat into the art space?

 

On Scorpio, I'd be tempted to use the cratch or fit a pram hood for doing art. They are frowned upon by boating experts bores, but for liveaboards, the enclosed canopy is very useful. (I don't have a pram hood yet, but want one for extra space while moored and doing stuff in the engine 'ole without needing to dodge showers).

 

 

Rob

[Tiller Trash]

The solid fuel stove on Calliope is little more than a toy

 

Richard

 

Agreed, I forgot to say I'd definitely replace it!

 

Calliope. No shower! Very strange layout with that "thing" in the middle.

 

Actually that thing in the middle is what I thought would put me off, but when I went to see it, It's a single bed that converts to a double, which personally I'd leave set up permanently, so in effect, it's a double bedroom.

 

To be honest - neither of them. There are much better £20k boats out there than either of those 40 year old boats.

 

If you are in a desperate hurry and cannot wait then the better of the two is Scorpio.

 

Suggestion - Stay in your 'trailer' until you find some another ones.

 

There is a 50 footer for sale on this forum (in the for sale section) for about £20k.

 

I want to sell my tow vehicle, a VW T4 van, for several reasons. Without a tow vehicle I can't move the caravan, which means I can only carry on caravanning for so long.

 

Hi ya TTTO.

Did I read that the water capacity in both was 100/150 Litres !, is that enough for you !.

Although one had been rewired, one only had a 300w inverter, so only really ok for TV, and rechargeable devices, so think hard if you're going to livaboard.

 

Is the water capacity very low then? With the caravan I have a 40 litre water container, which lasts me several days (but then I use site showers which would make a big difference I guess.) Hadn't thought about that!

 

IF you went for Scorpio, I'd put a solid fuel stove in her - - Webasto's are fine, though expensive to run (compared to a solid fuel stove) - and you would most likely need to run the stove 24/6 through the winter months

 

Didn't know that thanks

 

 

Second one makes more sense as a liveaboard, it is ready to go and seems from the photographs to be in good condition.

I don't know how much space your art requires but would it not be possible to use the cratch area?

How far are you likely to travel in Winter and would that swing the deal towards the first boat, would it really be that much warmer.

Does the first boat have any hot water, the stove doesn't seem to have any pipes connected and I can't see a heater in the kitchen?

Choice is obviously yours but I'd think long and hard about how much it would cost both in money and time to turn the first one into a boat you could live on. Space is always at a premium on a boat so you'll have to learn to be tidy.

 

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

 

Ken

 

No hot water I'd have to get it fitted. Artwise I need a fair space for easel etc.

 

 

Good points all, keep em coming!

[Tiller Trash]

Cant get my head around the layout in the first one. where do you plan to sleep? they're both quite old so have the potential to cost money sooner rather than later.

 

of the two I'd go for the second as its ready to go (has a fridge, 1st one doesn't) and has been blacked more recently and with 2 pack (I'm assuming the other is just bitumen as it doesn't state 2pack.)

 

As for the trad stern, we knocked our dog into the cut in the middle of the night, she has since learned to wait for the doors to be opened BEFORE getting on and to not get under our feet when we're moving (she lies above the engine where its warm)

 

The seating in the middle is a single bed that folds out to double which I would leave made up.

 

Just a couple of observations, Calliope only has one leisure battery, Although I liveaboard, I'm rarely awake on my boat during the week, don't have a tv, fridge is gas and all lights are LED. Even with my meagre power use, I've had to fit a third battery. Also the make up double beds... ...It looks like, if it's made up, the rear bed will make the rear door unusable. If you add a shower and water heater will that eat into the art space?

 

On Scorpio, I'd be tempted to use the cratch or fit a pram hood for doing art. They are frowned upon by boating experts bores, but for liveaboards, the enclosed canopy is very useful. (I don't have a pram hood yet, but want one for extra space while moored and doing stuff in the engine 'ole without needing to dodge showers).

 

 

Rob

 

The rear bed is in the middle of the boat, in front of the open dining area (fold down table against the wall), so it doesn't affect the back door. Shower wise I was considering a shower where the toilet is, and put the toilet on a board over the shower tray (saw it in one of the boats I viewed). It's obviously not ideal but means not taking away any space. Water heater I'd put in the kitchen.

 

Pram hood, hadn't thought of that, I'll look into it. Thanks

Just noticed, Scorpio says calorifier fitted 2014, but it's an aircooled engine. I thought you couldn't fit a calorifier to an aircooled engine?!

[junior]

I'd keep looking and keep saving. Both boats look like they could become potential money pits very soon. Unless you are going to have a considerable pot of money left after purchase to start the repairs then I'd steer clear and keep looking for a newer all steel boat.

 

If there were no other narrowboats for sale in the whole world and weren't likely to be for the next 5 years and your only alternative was to buy a widebeam, then I'd buy the second one (and expect to need to throw a few grand at it pretty soon).

[Tiller Trash]

 

 

There is a 50 footer for sale on this forum (in the for sale section) for about £20k.

 

His minimum acceptable is 21k, I can't stretch that far, wish I could cos it looks to be a corker!

[muddywaters]

_{Sorry to highjack the thread but would appreciate an opinion on this, and if it is worth while going to take a look at}

 

_{http://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=372449}

[Stilllearning]

Well Teena, I hope you are looking at the boat muddywaters has put a link to, it may suggest to you that there are boats under 20k that you should be looking at as well as those 2 you have highlighted.

[Alan de Enfield]

muddywaters, on 08 Jul 2014 - 5:28 PM, said:muddywaters, on 08 Jul 2014 - 5:28 PM, said:

_{Sorry to highjack the thread but would appreciate an opinion on this, and if it is worth while going to take a look at}

 

_{http://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=372449}

 

The biggest thing against it is 'make up beds', sounds such a small insignificant thing, and for the odd night it is - however when cruising for a couple of weeks (or more) it becomes an absolute pain in the bottom, it also means that one of you cannot stop up having supper, watching TV etc whilst the other goes to bed.

 

It looks like the radiators are not plumbed in but are Electric Oil Filled jobbies.

 

Edit - obviously if you are 'solo' you can eat your supper in bed, watch TV and do-what-you-want.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[muddywaters]

 

The biggest thing against it is 'make up beds', sounds such a small insignificant thing, and for the odd night it is - however when cruising for a couple of weeks (or more) it becomes an absolute pain in the bottom, it also means that one of you cannot stop up having supper, watching TV etc whilst the other goes to bed.

 

It looks like the radiators are not plumbed in but are Electric Oil Filled jobbies.

 

Edit - obviously if you are 'solo' you can eat your supper in bed, watch TV and do-what-you-want.

I will be solo so no issues there

[Tiller Trash]

Well Teena, I hope you are looking at the boat muddywaters has put a link to, it may suggest to you that there are boats under 20k that you should be looking at as well as those 2 you have highlighted.

 

Thanks for pointing it out, yes I have looked at that one, and as I said in my original post, at every one I can find on the net, all over the country. I've also done a fair bit of travelling, to view lots in person. And when you get there, the majority are falling apart. Which is why I narrowed it down to those two. Yes they are GRP topped but in far better condition than the majority I have seen (unless you look at much smaller boats). I already disregarded this particular boat because to me although it was once very attractive, it looks like it has been neglected for several years. If the outside looks like that above the waterline, I dread to think what condition it is in below the waterline. It also doesn't seem to have a permanent bed. I know from living in my caravan that I find getting the bed set up and put away to be a real chore.

 

The biggest thing against it is 'make up beds', sounds such a small insignificant thing, and for the odd night it is - however when cruising for a couple of weeks (or more) it becomes an absolute pain in the bottom, it also means that one of you cannot stop up having supper, watching TV etc whilst the other goes to bed.

 

 

Edit - obviously if you are 'solo' you can eat your supper in bed, watch TV and do-what-you-want.

That's what I just said but you got there before me! As I've been living (solo) in my caravan for getting on for four months, I can confirm that make up beds are a pain in the tushy. Yes if you're solo you can leave it out but if it's your living area it takes up too much room and is an eyesore.

[Stilllearning]

Teena I take your point about putting up and down a bed, but would point out that a rear cabin (boatmans cabin) is a separate bedroom that you may well find to be a very good compromise, and really easy to put away.

[David Mack]

The biggest thing against it is 'make up beds',

Is the single in the back cabin the cross bed or side bed? It isn't clear from the ad.

 

But no reason why you couldn't leave the cross bed made up permanently and use the front and side doors to access the main cabin, and back doors for the back cabin.

 

Just looked at the photos again - Where's the engine?

[canals are us?]

Out of the two, I would say the second one. Although for 20k you should be able to get something mid 90's and 40ft upwards.

 

James

[muddywaters]

Is the single in the back cabin the cross bed or side bed? It isn't clear from the ad.

 

But no reason why you couldn't leave the cross bed made up permanently and use the front and side doors to access the main cabin, and back doors for the back cabin.

 

Just looked at the photos again - Where's the engine?

That was my thought TBH

[Alan de Enfield]

Its not a Trad/Trad its a Modern/Trad (decorated in the Trad/Trad style)

 

I think you can see the engine covers (wood) on the picture looking thru the rear doors. Under the steps and the stern.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Tiller Trash]

If I had 20k I'd look for something like you mention, unfortunately I don't. I'm looking at boats around 18k tops, to make offers a bit lower. Beggars can't be choosers and all that. Also as I'm not currently working I can't save more money. So my choice of available boats is limited.