New Wooden Boat (France)

[Morat]

Hello

I'm on holiday in France at the moment and had a chance to take a look at this Berrichon barge being built in Vallon-en-Sully next to the Canal de Berry. I thought it might be interesting to some folks. I don't have any measurements, but from looking at it - and then cross checking with the lock sizes on this canal I reckon it's about 90ft by 9ft, but in metric.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a very poor photo of one of the information posters nearby, showing what they're aiming to reproduce. This must have been one seriously deep canal when it was in use!

 

I'm told that the boat is being used as a training project for local craftsmen and has been partially built and rebuilt over the last three years or so. What will happen to it if it is ever completed is unclear!

Edited June 15, 2014 by Morat

[peterboat]

Wow

 

peter

[FadeToScarlet]

I love the double folding rudders.

 

I think this is the type of boat where the horse/s were stabled aboard, in the square section in the middle.

[Daiboy]

Bloody hell, are we expecting another end of life rainstorm?

[Boaty Jo]

Very interesting!

I'm involved with a project trying to save the last surviving wooden peniche in France.

Called Aster the boat is 30 x 5 metres and has been lying idle and rotting In St Leger de Vignes ( at the start of the Canal du Nivernais) for 12 / 13 years.

We cruised her back to St Jean de Losne (approx 250 kms and 78 locks) the week before last over 7 wonderful days.

 

You can see more of Aster, hundreds of photos and brief trip reports here: http://www.musee-saintjeandelosne.com

Click on Project Aster.

 

I wrote the brief reports and the museum web site was updated with them and photos daily as we travelled. Many followed our progress.

 

We've just had a weekend of celebrations here in St Jean (including a 'Blessing of the boats, ceremony) where Aster was the star attraction. Hundreds of people came aboard and I'm hoarse from explaining the workings of the old boat including the rudder-mounted propeller, bow rudder and old 3-cylinder Baudouin engine.

 

Yes, horses did live in a 'cabin' on board. A Berrichon did indeed come from the Berry area (canal de Berry) - Aster, built in 1951 is a variation on that design.

 

It's lovely to see that someone is having a go at replicating what was a fascinating period in boat construction. It's the first I've heard of it, thanks for posting.

[Athy]

I love the double folding rudders.

 

I think this is the type of boat where the horse/s were stabled aboard, in the square section in the middle.

I believe that they were "hanimals" (donkeys) rather than horses.

The Berry preservation society also has a restored original berrichon. Unfortunately, at least when I was down there some five years ago, it was not on the eight-mile stretch which is currently open to navigation - the boats which you are most likely to see on there are Springers.

[magpie patrick]

I've seen old photos but didn't know they were building a replica. Presumably there is now a reasonable length of the Canal Du Berry navigable as well to use it on?

 

Funny how, given basically the same problem as us (smallish canal) the development was totally different. The historic picture shows the towing mast nearly at the front whereas ours were about a third of the way back: the Berrichon must have had more of a tendency to head to the bank, is that why twin rudders were necessary? And what local circumstances necessitated stabling on board rather than on the bank?

 

It does look primitive, and was perhaps even slower than our horse drawn narrow boats, but many of our standard narrow boats were unsophisticated, think BCN day boats for example

[Athy]

I've seen old photos but didn't know they were building a replica. Presumably there is now a reasonable length of the Canal Du Berry navigable as well to use it on?

As I mentioned earlier, when I went on it there were eight miles navigable, with narrowboats for hire. There's also a fairly short section in and around Vierzon which has boats on it. A further section a mile or so long had little boats (maybe pedalos, can't remember) for hire. We also visited and walked along a separate section which looked navigable but which did not have any boats on at that time. I don't know if they have reopened any sections since then.

 

The preservation society is called ARECABE and they have a web site, arecabe.org I think.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Athy

[Pluto]

This was the two boats at the Canal du Berry Museum in 1995. The one under cover was wood, the other iron.

 

On towage, some French canals were very late to adopt horses/mules, and continued to use man-power from both banks, thus reducing the need to locate the tow line to give good steerage. It may account for some of the very square stern ends, which can't have been that efficient.

[carlt]

And what local circumstances necessitated stabling on board rather than on the bank?

 

People nicking the horses for food? <tongue in cheek smiley>

[luctor et emergo]

This was the two boats at the Canal du Berry Museum in 1995. The one under cover was wood, the other iron.

 

On towage, some French canals were very late to adopt horses/mules, and continued to use man-power from both banks, thus reducing the need to locate the tow line to give good steerage. It may account for some of the very square stern ends, which can't have been that efficient.

But square sterns are VERY efficient, giving the maximum internal living /loading space.

[bargemast]

In my earlier days on the Nivernais(starting in '79), I used to meet the ASTER quite regulary, and she was a joy to watch in the very capable hands of her Captain, Monsieur Cretier, who's wife was the lockkeeper at Châtillon en Bazois. going through some of the fairly sharp bends in the canal by steering with the tiller between his legs, and the strings for the bow-rudder in his hands, it always was a beautiful sight.

 

After his dead, his son took over the commands of the ASTER, but that didn't last very long because of the needed repaires that costed a fortune, and still didn't give her the right to travel on the canal with passengers, and this on a canal where nobody on board could drawn if the boat ever would sink, simply because of the lack of water depth.

 

The cooling system was very cleverly done with the water pick-up being on the end of a rubber hosepipe that was lowerd over the stern, and was very easy to clean if it got blocked, and she would go round almost in her own lenght when turning around in the basin at Clamecy, with her prop on the end of the rudder.

 

I'm happy to read that she's in the hands of the Museum now, as she had to be saved.

 

Peter.

[Boaty Jo]

"I'm happy to read that she's in the hands of the Museum now, as she had to be saved."

Peter.

We've met so many people of the same opinion over the past 2 or 3 weeks, both in St Leger des Vignes, on the trip back and during last weekends festival in St. Jean de Losne. Literally hundreds and hundreds wished us well. We talked to so any people whose lives she has touched.

Mr Cretier was heartbroken both as we prepared the boat and then left for the last time. He was reluctantly helpful in showing us the boat's workings, particularly the re-installation of the bow-rudder. Quite a number waved us off but whether he was among them I'm not sure.

Out of interest on the cost front. In 1972 when she was initially converted to a passenger vessel the cost, I understand, was about 500,000 euros. When the owners (the Conseil General de La Nievre) were faced with another estimated 180,000 euro bill to upgrade her after new safety regulations were introduced in 1999, they said no more. Since 2002 Aster lay idle in St. Leger, and although something of a (rather sad) attraction, she was slowly decaying. The aim is to restore her then give her a permanent home in a purpose-built basin with open-sided cover. She will sit on blocks in about 60 cms water to try and preserve the timbers on the chance that, one day, she may sail again.

[bargemast]

 

"I'm happy to read that she's in the hands of the Museum now, as she had to be saved."

Peter.

We've met so many people of the same opinion over the past 2 or 3 weeks, both in St Leger des Vignes, on the trip back and during last weekends festival in St. Jean de Losne. Literally hundreds and hundreds wished us well. We talked to so any people whose lives she has touched.

Mr Cretier was heartbroken both as we prepared the boat and then left for the last time. He was reluctantly helpful in showing us the boat's workings, particularly the re-installation of the bow-rudder. Quite a number waved us off but whether he was among them I'm not sure.

Out of interest on the cost front. In 1972 when she was initially converted to a passenger vessel the cost, I understand, was about 500,000 euros. When the owners (the Conseil General de La Nievre) were faced with another estimated 180,000 euro bill to upgrade her after new safety regulations were introduced in 1999, they said no more. Since 2002 Aster lay idle in St. Leger, and although something of a (rather sad) attraction, she was slowly decaying. The aim is to restore her then give her a permanent home in a purpose-built basin with open-sided cover. She will sit on blocks in about 60 cms water to try and preserve the timbers on the chance that, one day, she may sail again.

 

 

The conversion into a passenger vessel in 1972 surely must have cost a lot less than 500.000€, in these days money was still the Franc, and I can't even believe that the bill would have been as much as 500.000Francs, as it was a very basic (but good enough for the job) conversion.

 

I suppose that the Mr Cretier you write about was Mr Marc Cretier, the son of the original Captain of the ASTER, he's a nice guy in who's heart a big place has always been occupied by the ASTER.

 

ATB with the work on her,

 

Peter.

[Boaty Jo]

 

The conversion into a passenger vessel in 1972 surely must have cost a lot less than 500.000€, in these days money was still the Franc, and I can't even believe that the bill would have been as much as 500.000Francs, as it was a very basic (but good enough for the job) conversion.

 

I suppose that the Mr Cretier you write about was Mr Marc Cretier, the son of the original Captain of the ASTER, he's a nice guy in who's heart a big place has always been occupied by the ASTER.

 

ATB with the work on her,

 

Peter.

 

Hello Peter

 

Bit long but........

 

I needed to investigate this a little before giving you an answer. It was Euros, not francs.

 

Basically ownership of Aster has been taken on by Aqua (an organisation created in 1987 to safeguard river heritage). Aqua manages the Museum in St. Jean de Losne.

The previous owners, the Conseil General de La Nievre (Nievre is a department in southern Burgundy) quoted the 500k Euro conversion figure during lengthy negotiations. Despite being offered for sale in 2010 for 100,000 euros, ownership passed to Aqua for a 'symbolic' one Euro.

 

In 1972 a team of specialists, brought in from Brittany, began work restoring and converting the boat to a passenger vessel. The work was carried out in the dry-dock in St. Leger de Vignes which is at the start of the Nivernais canal.

 

The team took 18 months to complete the work which included:

replacing some 'base-plate' timbers, replacing some ribs, building new top-sides and cabin roofs (all but the rear and fore decks), windows (approx 24), installing a galley able to supply 55 passengers, a 380-V generator (Perkins) and associated 380 and 220-V wiring, building a bar area, new sub-floor to accommodate new tanks (fresh and foul), and a second floor over that (now the saloon floor). When the Baudouin engine and associated propulsion system was installed I'm not sure. The propeller is situated on the rear of the rudder via a big universal joint and further shaft and, though not unique, is certainly unusual and heavily constructed.

All the repairs and new construction were done in oak (except the tank area sub-floor). Forty years on the newly built areas are in great condition – the curved oak roof joists (30?) and all public area floors The exception is some water damage here and there where neglected roofs and windows have leaked rain.

 

In 1999 new safety regulations were introduced which required new bulkheads, one fore and one central (the fore one would mean removing and re-installing the galley), safety railings (to a metre high) to passenger areas, upgraded fire and escape protection, renew front bollards and install an electric capstan and perform stability tests. The department of Nievre facing a 180,000 euro bill to do this called a halt and she lay idle from 2002 till 2 weeks ago when we moved her to St. Jean.

 

Renovation will include new fore and rear decks, new side-decks, renew caulking to the remaining roof areas, new windows throughout, new hatches. In order to carry out the work, a weatherproof cover will be needed to keep out sun and rain. Eventually a permanent basin will be built with permanent cover and access ramps and Aster will become a museum exhibit.

 

How much will this cost? We won't know till we look in depth at exactly what needs doing. All the physical work will be voluntary but raw materials (including a lot of oak) will need to be bought or begged.

 

Hope this gives you an answer (at least in part).

 

Yes, you are correct. It is Marc Cretier to whom we refer. He did take over from his father who, I understand, died on the vessel - probably the main reason that Marc was so emotional as we left.

 

Jo

Edited June 19, 2014 by Boaty Jo

[bargemast]

Hello Jo,

 

thank you very much for all your additional information about the ASTER.

 

Having had several conversations about the barge in '79-'80 and '81 (the years that I was based in the Nièvre at lock 24-Yonne, on the Nivernais, operating my hotel-barge) with Mr Cretier, I've never heard that the boat had received a 3.455.000 Francs (almost three and a half million francs) conversion, and that such extensive renovations and restaurations had been neccesary to this at the time only 21 years old barge.

 

I know about marine-carpenters from Brittany that worked on her in the dry-dock at St.Léger, but this was much more recent like the late 90's or early 2000's, as they'd asked at the time a yard that I knew very well if they were interested in the job, and because they didn't get their quote for the work to be done, they emploid the Brittany team.

 

Supposedly that has been a very expensive job, and they still didn't get the autorisation to operate the barge again on the Canal du Nivernais with passengers.

 

The ASTER was replaced by another barge, this time a steel one, named the "INFATIGABLE", which is now operating on the Canal de Roanne à Digoin.

 

It must have been hard for Marc Cretier to see ASTER leaving, but I'm sure that he's very happy that she's in good hands now, and will be looked after.

 

Peter.

[Athy]

On 16/06/2014 at 06:04, Boaty Jo said:

 

I'm involved with a project trying to save the last surviving wooden peniche in France.

Called Aster the boat is 30 x 5 metres and has been lying idle and rotting In St Leger de Vignes ( at the start of the Canal du Nivernais) for 12 / 13 years.

We cruised her back to St Jean de Losne (approx 250 kms and 78 locks) the week before last over 7 wonderful days.

 

You can see more of Aster, hundreds of photos and brief trip reports here: http://www.musee-saintjeandelosne.com

Click on Project Aster.

 

 

I'm reviving this thread, having re-read it in connection with some photos of historic French barges in the 'Tonic' thread.

I have looked at the museum web site to which you provided a link, and it seems to become rather vague after 2014. Is 'Aster'now fully restored and functioning? Gathering beetles and woodworm under tarpaulins? Or somewhere in between?

Are you still involved with the project?

[Bee]

Aster was in St John De Losgne  a couple of years ago. There was a little water festival there and the boat was open to look round. She was actually looking good and the group of people who were working on her had done a lot of work, I think she is being looked after by some sort of association but the amount of timber in her is colossal, this pic is before she was moved and taken about 6 years ago. Trying (and failing) to download another pic. Stupid computer.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Bee

[Bee]

And another pic, have to do them separately due to stupid computer. These pics are 6 - 7 years old before she went to St, j de Losgne

[Dav and Pen]

I saw you all coming through Fragnes when you were on the way to St Jean. The operation of the bow rudder was impressive.

When Charles saw me I was persuaded to buy a T shirt, I took some photos but can’t find them. 
Last saw Aster in the basin at St Jean under a sort of poly tunnel in 2018 quite a lot of new timber had been fitted.

[Boaty Jo]

16 hours ago, Athy said:

I'm reviving this thread, having re-read it in connection with some photos of historic French barges in the 'Tonic' thread.

I have looked at the museum web site to which you provided a link, and it seems to become rather vague after 2014. Is 'Aster'now fully restored and functioning? Gathering beetles and woodworm under tarpaulins? Or somewhere in between?

Are you still involved with the project?

That trip in 2014 was a wonderful memory for me but I'm no longer involved. We left St Jean for Belgium the following year.

I have read that it took three years to restore, which implies that it is finished but I agree the site link at the Musee is vague.

There's a Facebook page  https://www.facebook.com/asterpeniche and the photos section on the left seems to have plenty of the restoration. 

If they have indeed finished it they've done very well because parts of it were pretty tatty and rotten.

 

There's a record of the trip here... https://abargeatlarge.co.uk/articles/aster.html

 

I've been meaning to get a photo album together from the hundreds I took. I'll contact Charles Gerard and see if he can put me on to some of the restoration and up to date ones.

 

I remember Fragnes Dave, it's a favourite stopping point on the Canal du Centre. I still have my T-shirt!