nb Kerbau

[sparrowcycles]

Hello there everyone,

 

I have just become the new owner of narrowboat Kerbau, recently returned from 6 years in Ireland..

 

I have seen her mentioned on these forums before (I had a little search when I became interested in her)

and it seems that at least one member has owned her previously.

 

Well im doing that thing many of us like to do, as in scrape around for any history regarding our new (but aged) aquisitions..

So I thought I would put this post up to see if any of you fine folk have and knowledge about Kerbau's history, stories of her or even photographs perhaps?

 

I am hoping to get to know her better (although the journey solo from sharpness to Liverpool is doing that pretty well too!)..

 

Here is what I know from the previous owner (mark)..

 

originaly built around 1900 (maybe 1898) and in the 1950s was chopped into a 40ft (kerbau) and a 30 ft (enigma) in the 50s (by who i would love to know, the harris brothers was suggested to me the other day) with a wooden roof, oak beams and pine boards with masonite on top.. mark bought it in 1987, re plated the bottom and reskinned the top plus canvas and paint.

5mm steel top added in 2002 i think, which now makes it very top heavy and rolly.. then a new beta marine engine a few years ago.

 

Mark himself was cruising the uk system for 20 years so im sure there are some stories there but, again, if anyone knows anything of her history please give me a shout, id love to put it all together..

 

 

thanks!!

 

 

here she is now.. im heading up the shropshire union and then the bridgewater.. to liverpool

[Laurence Hogg]

Hello there everyone,

 

I have just become the new owner of narrowboat Kerbau, recently returned from 6 years in Ireland..

 

I have seen her mentioned on these forums before (I had a little search when I became interested in her)

and it seems that at least one member has owned her previously.

 

Well im doing that thing many of us like to do, as in scrape around for any history regarding our new (but aged) aquisitions..

So I thought I would put this post up to see if any of you fine folk have and knowledge about Kerbau's history, stories of her or even photographs perhaps?

 

I am hoping to get to know her better (although the journey solo from sharpness to Liverpool is doing that pretty well too!)..

 

Here is what I know from the previous owner (mark)..

 

originaly built around 1900 (maybe 1898) and in the 1950s was chopped into a 40ft (kerbau) and a 30 ft (enigma) in the 50s (by who i would love to know, the harris brothers was suggested to me the other day) with a wooden roof, oak beams and pine boards with masonite on top.. mark bought it in 1987, re plated the bottom and reskinned the top plus canvas and paint.

5mm steel top added in 2002 i think, which now makes it very top heavy and rolly.. then a new beta marine engine a few years ago.

 

Mark himself was cruising the uk system for 20 years so im sure there are some stories there but, again, if anyone knows anything of her history please give me a shout, id love to put it all together..

 

 

thanks!!

 

 

 

 

here she is now.. im heading up the shropshire union and then the bridgewater.. to liverpool

Can you supply better pictures of the fore end of the boat so we have more information to help identify the builder,

Thanks,

Laurrence

[alan_fincher]

I'm a former owner from the 1970s.

 

I'll answer this more fully later, but from what I saw of an e-Bay advertisment, under the new steel cabin skin you have much of the wooden cabin I built on to it at that time. (The 3" x 2" oak, joined in lap joints with crude coach bolts were a bit of a give-away - it was skinned in roofing felt covered by Masonite).

 

From my understanding it was definitely shortened and crudely converted to a motor by Harris Brothers at Bumblehole, (exclusively in rivets, including a then brand new steel bottom), but we were given I think an early 1960s date. When first converted, she originally had a petrol/paraffin (TVO) engine, not a diesel. She is claimed to have been bought as a redundant boat from the Stewarts and Lloyds day boat fleet at their Coombeswood factory at Halesowen, (described as a"tube carrying butty"), but I don't know her fleet number there, her BCN gauging number, or who built and operated her before Stewarts and Lloyds. Nobody seems to agree if she is a Bantock boat or not, but she certainly has very strong similarities.

 

If I were close I would be fascinated to come and see her, and see how much of my 1970s cabin frame and cladding still survives!

 

Oh I forgot - the original cabin conversion was much cruder, and certainly had no oak frames or tongue and groove in it, other than thin T&G for a roof. It was very light-weight, with 1/2" ply cabin sides, (no insulation, and rotting by the time we got her), and roof covered in roofing felt as if it were a shed. Pictures later!......

[alan_fincher]

OK I think all these have been on the forum before, but (if I don't exceed a maximum number of embedded images) I'll try re-posting them all together.

 

I'll start with ones before any attempt was made to recabin her, although about 4' of rotten plywood had been cut from each side and replaced by this stage, and the cabin cut back from original to provide a well deck.

 

First ones are all of a trip taken into Birmingham, (sorry about colours - people have colour corrected these in the past, but this is the current state of the old negatives!)

 

 

This picture looks like Glascote, now hallowed home of St Steve of Hudson!

 

 

My first wife, Pam, on the paddles....

 

 

The now beautifully restored "Big woolwich" "Chertsey" in the distance here.

 

 

And still some real canal-side industry on the BCN. Someone will remember where this was!

 

 

At Stoke Bruerne - not sure if before or after those above.

 

 

On home mooring at Cow Roast.

 

 

Cabin replacement - done in two halves to hang on to some secure storage whilst I was doing it.

 

Working on back end first.....

 

 

before stripping off the front end....

 

 

After I had just sold it, and being craned out near Berkhamsted station for removal by road by its new owner. It was still an empty unfitted shell when I decided to sell up.

 

 

My late brother Pete standing on front end, new owner is on hatch at the back......

 

 

Edited June 10, 2014 by alan_fincher

[pete harrison]

And still some real canal-side industry on the BCN. Someone will remember where this was!

 

 

About half way up Aston Locks, Birmingham - just how I remember it

[alan_fincher]

About half way up Aston Locks, Birmingham - just how I remember it

Thanks, Pete - I knew someone would remember.

 

A different world, really, wasn't it?

 

Is it a fair assumption that with no BCN number or S&L fleet number the OP has little chance of identifying the specific history of this boat?

 

I'm intrigued where the story has come from that the original formed two boats, as we were never told that, and I believe it was the two brothers that we bought from that had bought from S&L, and had converted by Harris brothers. (I no longer remember their surname).

 

My assumption is someone could positively ID the type, but not specific history of this particular boat. (Unless you have some Harris brothers records, of course, though Harris brothers have always sounded unlikely to have produced many to me)..

EDIT:

 

I have just realised that the heavy tarpaulin covering the front end in those craning out pictures is the one I still have that protects "Sickle's" engine from a leaky pigeon box! Hardly surprising that 40 years on, and never re-proofed it is not in top condition any more then!

[Laurence Hogg]

The Boat is almost certainly a later Bantock of the type built for the GWR interchange traffic. The fore end has the exact profile which matches with many images of the type. Some of these had BCN plates in the middle of the hold just under the gunwale.

[alan_fincher]

The Boat is almost certainly a later Bantock of the type built for the GWR interchange traffic.

Which presumably makes a claimed build date of 1898 pretty unlikely?

 

Between what years were that type built, please?

 

There was certainly no surviving BCN plate on this boat by the 1970s.

[Laurence Hogg]

Thanks, Pete - I knew someone would remember.

 

A different world, really, wasn't it?

 

Is it a fair assumption that with no BCN number or S&L fleet number the OP has little chance of identifying the specific history of this boat?

 

I'm intrigued where the story has come from that the original formed two boats, as we were never told that, and I believe it was the two brothers that we bought from that had bought from S&L, and had converted by Harris brothers. (I no longer remember their surname).

 

My assumption is someone could positively ID the type, but not specific history of this particular boat. (Unless you have some Harris brothers records, of course, though Harris brothers have always sounded unlikely to have produced many to me)..

EDIT:

 

I have just realised that the heavy tarpaulin covering the front end in those craning out pictures is the one I still have that protects "Sickle's" engine from a leaky pigeon box! Hardly surprising that 40 years on, and never re-proofed it is not in top condition any more then!

To my eyes without doubt this is a later built Bantock of the type used by the GWR on the interchange traffic. Some of these had their BCN plates mounted in the centre of the hold just under the gunnel. The fore end matches with other bats I have pictures of. 1898 would seem about right not too many were built much later.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[sparrowcycles]

Hello all and thanks so much for your replies! Apologies for the lateness of mine, I have just been able to charge my phone and get the internet!

 

Alan-fincher, thanks so much for the pictures you posted! The beautiful oak and pine is still fully intact inside and indeed one of the things that attracted me to kerbau so much! If you are close to Cheshire or liverpool any time soon please come to see her!

 

Also if you have any further stories or photos I would love to see/ hear them!

 

Lawrence Hogg, thanks for your information regarding the make and use of her original hull, I have seen other bantock hulls that looked the same but I haven't the experience to tell for sure! Do you know what freight was carried on the GWR interchange traffic?

 

Finally, I am thinking of trying to see if kerbau could be registered as an historic boat, is there any advice or concerns you wise folk might be able to voice on this hope? I'm not sure if she will qualify but I thought if anyone would know it would be you all!!..

 

Many many thanks..

Steve

[alan_fincher]

She would certainly be eligible to be recorded on the National Historic Ship's site.

Strictly she doesn't come close to the criteria for getting an Historic Boat Discount on your CRT licence, (worth 10% of normal licence fee), but as plenty of other boats that fail to meet the stated requirements seem to get it, it seems fairly random how they decide it. You could try, but don't be surprised if they say no.

You could also join the Historic Narrow Boat Club (HNBC), which can bring some benefits, including a small number of suppliers offering a discount on their products or services.

[Laurence Hogg]

Steve,

Your boat carried just about everything! The interchange traffic brought freight into interchange stations to load on railway wagons and vice versa to send to canalside factories. Hockley Port would have been one of the places used. If you want to see a intact interchange basin go to Chillington which is alongside the BCN main line in Wolverhampton at Bilston rd bridge. Don't leave it too long though as its about to fall down despite a grade2* listing being in place.

[sparrowcycles]

Alan-fincher, thanks again for your advice, I had thought there would be definite requirements for the histiric license discount but i might as well try anyway!

I will see if I can post some better pictures of kerbau soon before I cut a few more hatches in the side along the places you originally had windows as well as opening the well deck and recessing some aluminum panels in the engine room.

 

Lawrence Hogg, many thanks for your info, I shall certainly get down to chilling ton as soon as possible to see the basin! Another thing I am wondering is whether there was a standard font for the names on these interchange hulls or any associated vehicles (would it have been a GWR font?).. its really just because I'm thinking of etching kerbau's name, number and maybe a few more bits into the recessed engine room panels and whilst I know this is never going to be a traditional restoration I would like my details to reflect the hulls history..

 

All The best

[David Mack]

Another thing I am wondering is whether there was a standard font for the names on these interchange hulls or any associated vehicles (would it have been a GWR font?).. its really just because I'm thinking of etching kerbau's name, number and maybe a few more bits into the recessed engine room panels and whilst I know this is never going to be a traditional restoration I would like my details to reflect the hulls history..

 

There is a BCN day boat at the Black Country Museum in GWR livery. I don't know how authentic it is, but there are some pictures of it here.

[Laurence Hogg]

 

There is a BCN day boat at the Black Country Museum in GWR livery. I don't know how authentic it is, but there are some pictures of it here.

 

Whilst that boat is in a researched authentic livery it was never a GWR boat. It is an identical type Bantock built for a private customer from Sedgley.

As the GWR didn't have a boat dock the livery would have been applied elsewhere probably to a directive issued by GWR.

 

This picture shows Hockley port, two wooden GWR boats to the right and a LMS boat to the left, It gives a good indication of livery and lettering of the time. You will notice that the BCN number is painted on the cabin side this may indicate that the common plates may not have been necessary on this boat, possibly th answer why your boat originally didn't have any.

 

Edited June 20, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[sparrowcycles]

Thanks again!

 

I will be using those images as the basis for these recessed panels I will be putting in next week!

 

I will post some shots for sure..

[Laurence Hogg]

Thanks again!

 

I will be using those images as the basis for these recessed panels I will be putting in next week!

 

I will post some shots for sure..

 

The real boats did not have recessed panels.

[sparrowcycles]

I have seen that from the photos posted but with the steel roof adding a lot of weight she is now quite top heavy, rolly and sits much lower in the water than seen in the photos from alan_fincher, Its my hope to save weight with the aluminium panels and replacement of the front section covering the well deck with a cratch cover.

 

It might be possible to set them flush, i just feel that the joint would need filling and any flex in the shell would just crack that out straight away..

 

a hard choice.