Jump Leads

[magpie patrick]

Lutine has a Lister SR2: When it's run recently (last 24 hours) or when plugged in to a hook up it starts relatively easily, 2nd or 3rd attempt. At the moment, away from a hook up, and 3 weeks since she last started, the starter motor won't turn the engine even with the decompressors off.

 

As the smart gauge tells me I've 12.75 volts (assuming it's accurate) I'm assuming an excessive voltage drop and the wiring needs attention. When the boat is on a hook up the battery is actually being charged, giving an extra volt or two, when starting the next day after an overnight stop, the engine is still not totally cold.

 

One solution on the two occasions I've had this before has been to jump directly to the starter motor: before anyone says it yes you get a shower of sparks like your welding the motor to the jump leads but it works. Clearly I need to sort the wiring out but I need to get her started before that happens. Trouble is, both times I've done it I've borrowed jump leads from a boatyard (Anglo-Welsh at Great Haywood and Canal Cruising at Stone): mine are no good, rated at 200 amps according to the packaging all they do is get hot.

 

Even once I've sorted the voltage drop I may well need to jump start the boat on occasion so, main question, where do I get decent jump leads that will do the job rather than melt?

 

Edted to add I assume the answer isn't Halfords! and even if it is, I assume I'm looking at their heaviest grade ones

Edited June 7, 2014 by magpie patrick

[andyb116]

I got a set of 600amp 5 Metre long commercial vehicle ones from Andrew Paige motor factors for £35 inc vat. Have used them to start a HA3 and a JP3 with no problems and being 5m long they will reach from boat to boat quite often.

[Robbo]

Don't assume, check it's a voltage drop. As there's only two live cables going to the starter it could be either. If it's the thick motor cable, apart from the usual connections it may be your battery isolator. If it's the solinoid cable that will be harder to trace back but could be the key switch. If it is you could use the screwdriver method to start it!

[bizzard]

Apart from all the above advise. The starter motors are a pretty beefy lump on the SR, (lorry size) and need good cabling and switching. The starter key switch or button needs to be substantial, if not a good relay between switch-button and solenoid is needed, I use the old type car separate starter solenoid as a relay for this. The starter motor is probably quite old and might be lazy. There should be a brush gear inspection band on the rear end of the motor which by unscrewing the one securing screw the band can be slid along the body clear of the inspection ports. Check that all the brushes 3 of them are free in their holders, not worn out and are in contact with the commutator and that non of their wee snail springs has broken (rusted through) one brush out of action will reduce the starters power by more than half. Blow out muck with compressed air if pos.

[magpie patrick]

Thanks, good stuff: especially Bizzard. Lutine is new to me and I'm not that familiar with these older engines. All advice gratefully accepted.

 

I've just been offered the loan of a decent set of jump leads as well following posting this, so I'll get there! (There being Devizes from Marple...)

[Alan de Enfield]

800 amp, 6 metres @ £21 inc delivery and just about long enough to get a jump off another boat (depending on battery locations)

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121342839841?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[Keeping Up]

I bought a set of 500 amp leads from eBay recently. They looked good at first and came in a pretty case, but they turned out to be useless. The nice thick wires had plenty of insulation and hardly any copper, and the nice meaty crocodile clips were crimped very lazily. I measured their resistance at 0.2 ohms which certainly wouldn't turn a starter motor, and they were consigned straight to the bin.

[magpie patrick]

Thanks for replies. I've been to Lutine Bell with my brother and we started her, which proves it can be done.

 

Turning the key results in a clunk but won't start the engine, jumping to the starter motor makes it whirr but won't start the engine, doing both works, and the jump need only be across from the solenoid to the starter motor itself, not all the way from the battery, although with a jump lead all the way from the battery is easier than just trying to jump across a 1 inch gap.

 

So it sounds like a solenoid problem...

 

Any further thoughts would be much appreciated

[Barry]

800 amp, 6 metres @ £21 inc delivery and just about long enough to get a jump off another boat (depending on battery locations)

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121342839841?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

I bought a set of those immediately. Arrived a few days ago

 

 

I bought a set of 500 amp leads from eBay recently. They looked good at first and came in a pretty case, but they turned out to be useless. The nice thick wires had plenty of insulation and hardly any copper, and the nice meaty crocodile clips were crimped very lazily. I measured their resistance at 0.2 ohms which certainly wouldn't turn a starter motor, and they were consigned straight to the bin.

 

And I needed a set because the ones I had before failed spectularly on the first occasion they were used, even though I bought them a few years ago. First attempt to connect them to a battery caused the clamp to literally fall apart.

 

I wonder what I can use the spare copper cable for, that I now have now

[1st ade]

To clarify what we did on Lutine : -

 

Turn key - loud 'clunk', no rotary motion; at all

 

Bridge 12v to solonoid feed on back of starter motor - load 'clunk', no rotary motion.

 

Bridge two big terminals on back of starter - big spark and motor spins

 

Turn key and bridge two big terminals. Lister starts straight away, no problem, on full compression.

 

My diagnosis is that the solonoid is engaging the drive but not making the high current connection (I know car engines but not too much about boat engines).

 

My "get you running" fix would be a second car-type seperate solonoid wired across the main contacts but that might break the sequence of engage drive then apply power which could cause damage. Alternativly, how difficult is it to remove the solonoid, dismantle and run a bit of sandpaper across the contacts??

 

 

Thanks for replies. I've been to Lutine Bell with my brother and we started her, which proves it can be done.

 

Turning the key results in a clunk but won't start the engine, jumping to the starter motor makes it whirr but won't start the engine, doing both works, and the jump need only be across from the solenoid to the starter motor itself, not all the way from the battery, although with a jump lead all the way from the battery is easier than just trying to jump across a 1 inch gap.

 

So it sounds like a solenoid problem...

 

Any further thoughts would be much appreciated

[DHutch]

Edted to add I assume the answer isn't Halfords! and even if it is, I assume I'm looking at their heaviest grade ones

Their old ones had plastic clamps which where a bit crap. But the current heavy duty 35mm^2 leads look good quality. I have the 25mm set and although I have only used them on cars they seem fine. Bit shorter at 4.5m but £35 punter price, less with a trade card.

 

 

Daniel

 

I bought a set of those immediately. Arrived a few days ago

 

 

What's the quality like? And idea of the cable cross section?

[Barry]

I'll tell you when I get home Daniel

 

On my way to Birmingham floating market with Lemontoes

[luctor et emergo]

I have a cheap set from somewhere cheap, which have started other boat engines and my van. Biggest battery on a boat be 110 amps?

 

Patrick, have you tried the other (domestic) batteries?

[Robbo]

I have a cheap set from somewhere cheap, which have started other boat engines and my van. Biggest battery on a boat be 110 amps?

 

Patrick, have you tried the other (domestic) batteries?

 

 

My starter battery can do 900amps. Don't confuse Ah's and amps.

[John V]

 

My diagnosis is that the solonoid is engaging the drive but not making the high current connection (I know car engines but not too much about boat engines).........................................................

......................how difficult is it to remove the solonoid, dismantle and run a bit of sandpaper across the contacts??

 

 

In theory not hard....you do need a good high wattage soldering iron, a de-solder pump to undo the "small " terminal, a pair of needle nosed pliers to straighten the wire so that it will pull through the hole in the small terminal

[luctor et emergo]

We are talking about jumpstarting a car engine... Not a 14 liter 400 horse truck engine.

[DHutch]

We are talking about jumpstarting a car engine... Not a 14 liter 400 horse truck engine.

I thought we where talking about jumpstarting an SR2 or other similar vintage boat engine? Not seen a SR2 in a car...

 

But I agree that a lot of boat engines will have not greater a starting requirement that a diesel car.

 

Daniel

[Robbo]

We are talking about jumpstarting a car engine... Not a 14 liter 400 horse truck engine.

 

Still don't confuse ah's and amps. The battery I was on about is only 50ah's, but can provide 900amps. I also have a 225ah battery, but it will struggle to provide anything above 50amp.

[luctor et emergo]

 

Still don't confuse ah's and amps. The battery I was on about is only 50ah's, but can provide 900amps. I also have a 225ah battery, but it will struggle to provide anything above 50amp.

I'm not confusing anything. Normal car jumpleads will start a typical boat engine, seeing as most are equivalent to car engines of some sort. Most, if not all, jumpleads have 'bigger' wires than the wires that connect the batteries to the starter.

[1st ade]

 

In theory not hard....you do need a good high wattage soldering iron, a de-solder pump to undo the "small " terminal, a pair of needle nosed pliers to straighten the wire so that it will pull through the hole in the small terminal

 

Thanks - I'll give it a crack next time I'm somewhere near Lutine Bell (and brother doesn't mind being left with no starter for an hour or two... or three ... or)

[Robbo]

I'm not confusing anything. Normal car jumpleads will start a typical boat engine, seeing as most are equivalent to car engines of some sort. Most, if not all, jumpleads have 'bigger' wires than the wires that connect the batteries to the starter.

 

 

 

I have a cheap set from somewhere cheap, which have started other boat engines and my van. Biggest battery on a boat be 110 amps?

 

Sorry but that looks like you assume that they will be no more than 110amps going down the jump cable.

[luctor et emergo]

 

 

Sorry but that looks like you assume that they will be no more than 110amps going down the jump cable.

I bought my jumpleads to jump car batteries, and boat engines, not truck engines.

[Robbo]

I bought my jumpleads to jump car batteries, and boat engines, not truck engines.

 

It takes around 190amps to start a small diesel engine. As the jump cables will be longer and you will often be starting a engine that "doesn't want to start" this makes using decent size jumper cables more important.

[1st ade]

... Most, if not all, jumpleads have 'bigger' wires than the wires that connect the batteries to the starter.

 

and are also considerably longer?