Improving onboard Mobile communications

[Wafi]

Dumb antenna question:

 

I'm thinking of getting an RUTX50 router. For those not already familiar with the device it has 4 antenna connections to support 4x4 MIMO 5G, and 2 Wifi connections. I'm aware of all-in-one antennae that work well with the RUTX50, but for various reasons (aesthetics and which bits of boat I'm happy to drill holes through) I haven't found one I'm keen to mount on my roof. I have enough experience in electrical engineering to know that RF is weird and wonderful, and there's much of it that I don't understand, so some specific questions:

• Am I correct in thinking that instead of a single 4x4 MIMO I can mount two 2x2 MIMO 4G/5G antennae in separate locations and everything will work?
• Are there any issues with shortening antenna cables? I'm comfortable fitting SMA connectors and have the tools, but do antenna cables need to exact multiples of a wavelength or anything funky like that? (Guessing not because of the wide frequency bands, but you never know...)
• Do the two Wifi connections interact in some funky way that I don't understand, or can I put one antenna inside the boat and one outside?

 

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Wafi said:

Dumb antenna question:

 

I'm thinking of getting an RUTX50 router. For those not already familiar with the device it has 4 antenna connections to support 4x4 MIMO 5G, and 2 Wifi connections. I'm aware of all-in-one antennae that work well with the RUTX50, but for various reasons (aesthetics and which bits of boat I'm happy to drill holes through) I haven't found one I'm keen to mount on my roof. I have enough experience in electrical engineering to know that RF is weird and wonderful, and there's much of it that I don't understand, so some specific questions:

• Am I correct in thinking that instead of a single 4x4 MIMO I can mount two 2x2 MIMO 4G/5G antennae in separate locations and everything will work?
• Are there any issues with shortening antenna cables? I'm comfortable fitting SMA connectors and have the tools, but do antenna cables need to exact multiples of a wavelength or anything funky like that? (Guessing not because of the wide frequency bands, but you never know...)
• Do the two Wifi connections interact in some funky way that I don't understand, or can I put one antenna inside the boat and one outside?

 

You can use 2 separate 2x2 MIMO with no problem, except finding place to fit two (with holes!) instead of one 4x4 MIMO.

 

Shorter cables are always better, so long as you can do the connector termination properly.

 

You should be OK putting one Wi-Fi antenna inside and one outside if that's what you want to do (but this might give lower data rates, if you care about this), but what's the reason for doing this? With router/Wi-Fi antenna (inbuilt) inside the boat I have no problem with Wi-Fi reception anywhere outside...

 

I haven't used one, but the GLinet GL-X3000 (Spitz AX) is often recommended above the RUTX50... 😉 

 

 

[Hudds Lad]

21 minutes ago, Wafi said:

Do the two Wifi connections interact in some funky way that I don't understand, or can I put one antenna inside the boat and one outside?

I can tell you the little stubby wifi antennae that are provided with it are magnetic on the base, but only IP50 rated, so you'd need a different solution if one will sit out in the elements.

[Wafi]

Thanks! I was toying with fitting one of these (or similar) to each end of a pigeon box; they're a bit less visually obtrusive than the bulky 4x4 antennae. I can then take the cables through glands in either end of the dog box. That avoids drilling holes in the cabin top, and the whole thing is easy to remove if/when I get the cabin top repainted.

External WiFi antenna is purely for better signal strength at the helm. Not strictly necessary, but if the router supports two antennae I thought I might aswell put one outside. Assumption would be that if I did fit an external WiFi antenna I'd get an IP-rated one.

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

I can tell you the little stubby wifi antennae that are provided with it are magnetic on the base, but only IP50 rated, so you'd need a different solution if one will sit out in the elements.

...which might make it difficult finding anything to attach them to inside the boat... 😉 

 

2 minutes ago, Wafi said:

Thanks! I was toying with fitting one of these (or similar) to each end of a pigeon box; they're a bit less visually obtrusive than the bulky 4x4 antennae. I can then take the cables through glands in either end of the dog box. That avoids drilling holes in the cabin top, and the whole thing is easy to remove if/when I get the cabin top repainted.

External WiFi antenna is purely for better signal strength at the helm. Not strictly necessary, but if the router supports two antennae I thought I might aswell put one outside. Assumption would be that if I did fit an external WiFi antenna I'd get an IP-rated one.

 

From my experience you really don't need to worry about that. With a router inside the boat, plenty of signal leaks out through windows/portholes/hatches to get good reception outside.

Edited September 1, 2025 by IanD

[Hudds Lad]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

...which might make it difficult finding anything to attach them to inside the boat... 😉 

They will stand up on their own, but a bit of double-sided tape would work on a vertical surface.

We have one stood at the side of the TV, and one attached to a (conveniently) metal bookend facing down the boat. Seems to work ok so far, even gives WIFI stood at the tiller.

[missingtheboat]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

From my experience you really don't need to worry about that. With a router inside the boat, plenty of signal leaks out through windows/portholes/hatches to get good reception outside.

This is my experience too. We’ve only been on board a couple of months and the little wifi antenna cone thingies have just been stuffed in a cupboard waiting for me to find a good place to mount them.
 

The whole time, we’ve had good wifi all over the boat, inside and outside - which is making the decision about where to put them a bit harder as it seems like it might be pretty much irrelevant. 

[Wafi]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

...which might make it difficult finding anything to attach them to inside the boat... 😉 

Mine's going in the engine room, so there are lots of options. Flywheel cover, upside down stuck to the top of the pigeon box, anywhere on the outside of the coolant tank. Not sure whether the rocker covers are magnetic.

 

Thinking about it, on top of the coolant tank isn't a completely stupid place to put a magnetic WiFi antenna, but at the moment internal WiFi antennae are in the "lots of options, worry about it later" category. 

[IanD]

34 minutes ago, missingtheboat said:

This is my experience too. We’ve only been on board a couple of months and the little wifi antenna cone thingies have just been stuffed in a cupboard waiting for me to find a good place to mount them.
 

The whole time, we’ve had good wifi all over the boat, inside and outside - which is making the decision about where to put them a bit harder as it seems like it might be pretty much irrelevant. 

What is worth worrying about much more than this is external antenna type and placement, there are big differences between different makes/types, and this makes *way* more difference to internet access than anything to do with the Wi-Fi (or even differences between routers, assuming they're "similar" e.g. 5G, MIMO)

 

Generally speaking bigger (usually more expensive) antennae have more gain than small (cheaper) "puck" type ones, reputable suppliers (e.g. Poynting, Panorama) are likely to be better than "no-name" ones, and unless you can raise them well clear of the roof on a mast panel antennae (designed to be kept well away of big metal things like narrowboat roofs and cabins) are probably not as good as ones designed for roof-mounting on vehicles. Oh, and short cables are also a lot better than the long ones that some antennae come with pre-attached (e.g. 5m or even longer).

 

All these things put together can make a big difference in signal level, which has a big impact on data rates or indeed whether you have any usable signal at all, especially in remote canal locations... 😉 

Edited September 1, 2025 by IanD

[missingtheboat]

All true I’m sure. It’s interesting, we’ve come from stable 300mbps fibre broadband, so it’s been an adjustment. 😀
 

My advice for anyone new would be to firstly think hard about what you actually need. We’ve been in a terrible internet area for the past two months. We’re in a marina for now and most people we speak to can’t get any internet at all. Zilch. 
 

We get around 4-6 mbps when I’ve done speed tests, which on the one hand is abysmal BUT it seems to be (just) enough for standard HD (probably not 4K but haven’t tried it) streaming and routine internet stuff - Sonos on all day, emails, general internet browsing, victron monitoring etc etc.

 

My point being that even low speeds may be ‘enough’ for most people, most of the time. 
 

It’s not enough for gaming, zoom meetings, gig downloads and all that kind of stuff of course, but I suspect the only way we’d be able to do those things in this specific location is with Starlink and I’d rather do without than give Musk a single penny. 

 

I run a business and there are times when I need better internet, but I’d rather head to the office or even to a nearby place with decent Wi-fi if I need to. ‘Hot-spotting’ from my phone (with unlimited data) works incredibly well in places with good internet too, which I almost always use over public wifi nowadays. 
 

I know everyone has different needs but the best thing for me has been accepting that there will be limitations at times regardless of how much I spend on gear, and it’s best to just roll with that. Sure, maybe I could spend more, but that would probably just lead to more frustration when it still doesn’t work. 
 

 

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, missingtheboat said:

All true I’m sure. It’s interesting, we’ve come from stable 300mbps fibre broadband, so it’s been an adjustment. 😀
 

My advice for anyone new would be to firstly think hard about what you actually need. We’ve been in a terrible internet area for the past two months. We’re in a marina for now and most people we speak to can’t get any internet at all. Zilch. 
 

We get around 4-6 mbps when I’ve done speed tests, which on the one hand is abysmal BUT it seems to be (just) enough for standard HD (probably not 4K but haven’t tried it) streaming and routine internet stuff - Sonos on all day, emails, general internet browsing, victron monitoring etc etc.

 

My point being that even low speeds may be ‘enough’ for most people, most of the time. 
 

It’s not enough for gaming, zoom meetings, gig downloads and all that kind of stuff of course, but I suspect the only way we’d be able to do those things in this specific location is with Starlink and I’d rather do without than give Musk a single penny. 

 

I run a business and there are times when I need better internet, but I’d rather head to the office or even to a nearby place with decent Wi-fi if I need to. ‘Hot-spotting’ from my phone (with unlimited data) works incredibly well in places with good internet too, which I almost always use over public wifi nowadays. 
 

I know everyone has different needs but the best thing for me has been accepting that there will be limitations at times regardless of how much I spend on gear, and it’s best to just roll with that. Sure, maybe I could spend more, but that would probably just lead to more frustration when it still doesn’t work. 

 

 

There will undoubtedly always be some places where even a top-notch setup can't get a signal; all I can say if that I haven't found any yet in about 500 miles of boating, I've always managed to get high enough data rates for WFB***/TV streaming, typically around 30Mbps but much higher sometimes in towns, lowest I've seen was 8Mbps which was still usable -- and much higher in the marina, because there's an EE mast nearby... 🙂 

 

That's with a 5G 4x4 MIMO router with short cables (<1m) to a Panorama roof-mounting antenna, which is probably as good as can be done without a directional antenna up a mast (or Starlink).

 

*** Working From Boat

[missingtheboat]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

That's with a 5G 4x4 MIMO router with short cables (<1m) to a Panorama roof-mounting antenna, which is probably as good as can be done without a directional antenna up a mast (or Starlink).

 

Yes, we have a similar set-up. This marina actually has their own fibre (I think) network - such is the desperately bad mobile internet in the area (around £20/month for 50 mbps if memory serves) - but it does mean messing around with additional cables. Given that phones (all networks) and 'standard' router/antennal set-ups seem to get nothing at all around here, I think this is probably just a really bad black spot. We use EE and get just enough to manage. 

 

1 hour ago, IanD said:

There will undoubtedly always be some places where even a top-notch setup can't get a signal

 

....and presumably less and less such places as the network grows/improves. As you say, 30 mbps is more than enough for most stuff. The only thing I miss about the super fast broadband is watching films and music download rapidly, not something I'd even attempt right now! 

 

[NB Saturn]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

There will undoubtedly always be some places where even a top-notch setup can't get a signal; all I can say if that I haven't found any yet in about 500 miles of boating, I've always managed to get high enough data rates for WFB***/TV streaming, typically around 30Mbps but much higher sometimes in towns, lowest I've seen was 8Mbps which was still usable -- and much higher in the marina, because there's an EE mast nearby... 🙂 

 

That's with a 5G 4x4 MIMO router with short cables (<1m) to a Panorama roof-mounting antenna, which is probably as good as can be done without a directional antenna up a mast (or Starlink).

 

*** Working From Boat

 

You’ve never moored at Bramble Cuttings just outside Middlewich then 😉

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, NB Saturn said:

 

You’ve never moored at Bramble Cuttings just outside Middlewich then 😉

Nope -- or indeed, quite a lot of the UK canal system. As I said, all I can go on is my experience so far, which has been positive... 🙂 

Edited September 1, 2025 by IanD

[NB Saturn]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

Nope -- or indeed, quite a lot of the UK canal system. All I can go on is my experience so far, which has been positive... 🙂 

 

Well if you ever want plausible deniability for being uncontactable thats the place to moor - I’ve never seen a whiff of a signal on any network. The trees there might even put paid to starlink 😀

[Hudds Lad]

19 minutes ago, NB Saturn said:

You’ve never moored at Bramble Cuttings just outside Middlewich then 😉

Almost every time we passed there at a time we'd think of mooring for the day it was full, the only time it wasn't there was one boat but it's occupant was strolling around the mooring wearing nothing but a smile. We chose to cruise on 😬

[NB Saturn]

57 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Almost every time we passed there at a time we'd think of mooring for the day it was full, the only time it wasn't there was one boat but it's occupant was strolling around the mooring wearing nothing but a smile. We chose to cruise on 😬

 

 

i like my privacy, what can I say…

[Guyon]

We have a RUTX50 and it works amazingly well with the WiFi antenna in random places. We have not got an external aerial yet as I don’t want to hack my beautiful cabin about and need to investigate the options.
we got round the magnetic WiFi antenna in a wooden cabin issue by sticking penny washers to the cabin with double sided tape. 

[PeterF]

An info post based on recent changes I have made this summer. The boat was built in 2020 with a Teltonika RUT X11 4G 2x2 MIMO router, an EAD LMO7270 4G 2x2 MIMO antenna , Aircell 7mm cables between the two and using Smarty as the provider. We got mixed performance on our travels, varying between 0 and 30Mbps. As a reference, at our home mooring at Tattenhall we would get ~3Mbps but often lower, but that was not too much of an issue as we do not spend a lot of time on the boat there, but it is indicative of the bottom end of our performance range..

 

I first swapped to a new Antenna, a Panorama LPMM-6-60 Great White, the 4G/5G 2x2 MIMO. At Tattenhall this doubled the speeds with Smarty to ~6Mbps but it could still drop down very low when the cell tower was heavily used. I then swapped to 1p Mobile with the new antenna and now at Tattenhall I can get 16 to 32Mbps so about 3 to 5 times Smarty in this area.

 

I look forward to seeing how I fare during the coming trip along the Shroppie and Staffs & Worcs.

[jaime66]

We fitted starlink.......super fast 210 mbps....it works ....

[GUMPY]

27 minutes ago, jaime66 said:

We fitted starlink.......super fast 210 mbps....it works ....

More money in Musks bank account 😱

Technically it might be good but I wouldn't entertain using it as I don't want to fund a fascist.

[Sub Divo]

Hello Everyone!

 

Does anyone know about (or have experience of) running an Ofcom compliant 4G\5G signal booster (with external aerial) wired to a router.

 

So that would be coax (booster) to router (likely SMA). Is that even possible?

 

I've next to no experience in this area, so apologies if that's a silly question.

[LadyG]

I'd like to buy a new router  from Amazon, for ease of delivery.

I used to have  Huwei mifi and cheapo twin magnetic antennae  it worked OK.

There needs to be 3m cables to antennae.

Ty

Edited July 17 by LadyG