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Improving onboard Mobile communications


KJT

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25 minutes ago, KJT said:

am not so sure fitting the router itself atop a mast would be a good idea for several reasons. I would think that the routers internal aerial is not as sophisticated as the purpose made ones. I could be wrong on that though. And risk of water ingress and physical damage due to its vulnerable location when continually raising and lowering the mast.

Fitting the router on the mast doesn't preclude the use of an external antenna. It improves it in fact, because it reduces the attenuation along the cable to it.

 

There is a risk of water ingress and physical damage, which would need to be minimised by constructing an appropriate housing. Physical damage to the antennae seems more likely than to the router - the router is just a circuit board.

 

The greater risk as I see it is advertising a 200 odd gpb device with two sim cards in it by waving it around high in the air. Though all your antennae seem to have not been stolen right?

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15 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

 

The greater risk as I see it is advertising a 200 odd gpb device with two sim cards in it by waving it around high in the air. Though all your antennae seem to have not been stolen right?

Just as well you haven't published your plan on t'internet then innit:).

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Far simpler to just use low-loss coax. It’s what the pros do. 

 

https://www.specialistantennas.co.uk/products/rf-cables-accessories/rf400-very-low-loss-rf-coaxial-cable

We had some of that on a wifi antenna once. What fun that was getting it in the boat.....tis bloody huge,and not very flexible, but probably a solution if the 'thin' cable don't work (which it probably will).

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1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

We had some of that on a wifi antenna once. What fun that was getting it in the boat.....tis bloody huge,and not very flexible, but probably a solution if the 'thin' cable don't work (which it probably will).

I agree that it’s horrid stuff but it’s a far superior solution than putting expensive electronics in a Tupperware box on the top of a pole. 

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1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

if the 'thin' cable don't work (which it probably will).

I don't doubt that the Poynting antenna on a 5m tall mast connected to the Teltonika router works, indeed that it probably works very well.

 

I'm just wondering why - if we're going to these extremes to get the best possible signal - we're OK with accepting the cable losses?

 

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I agree that it’s horrid stuff but it’s a far superior solution than putting expensive electronics in a Tupperware box on the top of a pole. 

Surely any cable is still going to be worse than having no cable?

I'm wondering why I don't feel nearly as bothered about putting these "expensive electronics" at the top of the pole as most people. Perhaps I have a more robust container in mind, or perhaps my risk appetite is greater.

Why do we not mind putting our expensive antennae on the end of a pole? Do we have these stolen / damaged / dropped in the drink frequently...?

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12 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

I'm just wondering why - if we're going to these extremes to get the best possible signal - we're OK with accepting the cable losses?

Probably a cost thing. I bet the quality cable would add another 50%-%70 cost to the antenna installation. You would probably also still need thin 'pigtails' to connect to the router.

 

The improved performance would only really be visble in very low signal areas. If there this is no signal at all, then it will make no difference.

 

 

Edited by rusty69
changed my estimate
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1 hour ago, ivan&alice said:

The greater risk as I see it is advertising a 200 odd gpb device with two sim cards in it by waving it around high in the air. Though all your antennae seem to have not been stolen right?

To date, after several years, I have not had the aerial stolen. But if I am leaving the boat unattended for an extended length of time then it is easily removed and stored inside.

 

If you are concealing your expensive router inside an anonymous looking box them no one would know what it is anyway. 

 

Ken

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I've got the Poynting XPOL-1 from solwise on an aerial with a Netgear MIFI gizmo attached to only one of it's 5m antenna cables.

 

I'm currently in Hesfords boatyard in Cheshire where mobile signals, both phone and data are sh1te!

 

With the aerial disconnected, I get no signal and no internet connection, (The status page actually says RSSP = -125, Signal Strength = 0).

 

With the one cable connected, the main display shows 4G and 3 bars out of 4, and I get a good working connection, including streaming video, (The status page shows RSSP = -104, Signal Strength = 3).

 

I think RSSP is dB, not sure what the strength is measured in.

 

I may be losing something by using 5m of cable but, given the aerial takes me from zero, to plenty, I dont really care :)

 

If I ended up somewhere where there was no signal, or very poor signal, perhaps I would look at shortening the cable but, at the moment, it's not a concern.

 

What I might doi is get a pigtail for the other aerial cable and see if that makes things even better. When I first got the setup, Solwise were telling us that carriers only used single signals, so MIMO was not relevant, but it seems that this has changed.

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18 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Then I'll know who to come after xD

I do think you are over egging the attenuation issue.

It really is not that bad. We've had one night in 3 years with a bad signal. Probably 300 locations? 

What is the attenuation? I've not looked. About 5dB? I doubt if you would notice.

In practice these antennas work without exposing the router to the elements.

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3 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

How thick does a 5 metre, 1 inch diameter aluminium tube need to be to be an effective mast, support a Poynting and capacity for a few extra gizmos, if it is reasonably windy and hinged so I can bring it down during navigation?

1.6mm, 3.25mm or 4.47mm?

You dont need 5m.

My pole is a piece of plastic (Polyethylene) pipe 2m high ....25mm OD.

 

You can do 5m ....but why?

 

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24 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

You dont need 5m.

My pole is a piece of plastic (Polyethylene) pipe 2m high ....25mm OD.

 

You can do 5m ....but why?

 

We use a 3m telescopic decorator pole.It is way too long for our 5m of cable, but is dead handy for painting houses.

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The way I'm picturing attaching it is the bottom at the deck and 1.5m up on the roof. This would result in the antenna being about 3.5m above the height of the roof. This is a good height because:
 

1) Higher is generally better for signal

2) It is out of reach of even very tall people standing on the roof, so anyone wanting to fiddle would have to break the pole

3) The cables that come with the Poynting are 5m long, and I may as well have them on the antenna mast rather than coiled up behind my router.
4) The pipes at the store I want to buy them from come in 5m lengths so I have nothing to cut and nothing to throw away!

I'd want it to be fairly tall, strong and sturdy so I could mount other things on it if and when I decide to do that - CCTV, weather sensors, 360 degree camera, GPS antenna, maybe a flag xD

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30 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

The way I'm picturing attaching it is the bottom at the deck and 1.5m up on the roof. This would result in the antenna being about 3.5m above the height of the roof. This is a good height because:
 

1) Higher is generally better for signal

2) It is out of reach of even very tall people standing on the roof, so anyone wanting to fiddle would have to break the pole

3) The cables that come with the Poynting are 5m long, and I may as well have them on the antenna mast rather than coiled up behind my router.
4) The pipes at the store I want to buy them from come in 5m lengths so I have nothing to cut and nothing to throw away!

I'd want it to be fairly tall, strong and sturdy so I could mount other things on it if and when I decide to do that - CCTV, weather sensors, 360 degree camera, GPS antenna, maybe a flag xD

There is a lot of leverage on a long pole so you need to consider how you will fix it to the roof.  If you look at tv aerial poles for over about 3m you would use a 2” pole as a 1” pole would flex too much and fail.

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5 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

There is a lot of leverage on a long pole so you need to consider how you will fix it to the roof.  If you look at tv aerial poles for over about 3m you would use a 2” pole as a 1” pole would flex too much and fail.

I agree. WIth all that stuff and a paint brush on top you will need at least 1".

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  • 5 months later...

Hi Ken

Im so glad I came across your fantastic article on mobile internet etc.

I am about to buy a Narrowboat for wife and me to live aboard and continuously cruise. Hence researching best mobile internet connections. I’m thinking of getting the mifi set up you describe to connect a laptop to. In your experience how much data am I going to get through with browsing online? Or is unlimited data a must?

 

Thank you

Steve.

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35 minutes ago, NB wannabe’s said:

Hi Ken

Im so glad I came across your fantastic article on mobile internet etc.

Note that Ken’s post is now 6 years old and things have moved on a bit over those years. 

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Thanks for pointing that out!  My trouble when looking at forum posts, I don’t concentrate properly on the dates and things. And I don’t always follow the posts until most recent. I’m a bit slow! After I’d posted, I did review some more recent posts!

 

Thanks again

Steve

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