When bandits attack.

[zildjian]

Sorry to hear that, I've occasionally wondered about canals where they (unfortunately) rub shoulders with areas of urban blight,

 

are there any tell-tale signs as you travel the waterways,

graffiti would be an obvious flag, but anything else get you boaters attention?

[carlt]

 

However, perhaps we just have a different interpretation of what has been expressed.

We certainly do!

Well, I'm not as skilled at digging up old posts as others,

Evidently not.

Edited May 25, 2014 by carlt

[GUMPY]

Casting my mind back many years, if this happened where I think it did, near a right hand bend going away from Etruria then its been a known badspot for at least 15 years. We were warned about it when we last went up there in 2000.

We did that stretch early in the morning, 6am, for that reason.

[Hawkmoth]

We certainly do!

 

Evidently not.

Carl, you do appear to be a lot more forgiving of transgression than most of us. I do bow to your humanity, but....

I do, in the main, agree with blackrose on this one.

Bob

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Casting my mind back many years, if this happened where I think it did, near a right hand bend going away from Etruria then its been a known badspot for at least 15 years. We were warned about it when we last went up there in 2000.

We did that stretch early in the morning, 6am, for that reason.

Well that means the Police have Failed miserably for 15 years or more, in making that

stretch of the Canal and surrounding area safe for the law abiding public.

Why should there be these ' No go areas' or 'Problem' areas.

If I woke up tomorrow and said right my boat is now a No go area for the Police, ime going to break into all the other boats in the Marina and raid there cupboards as and when I get hungry, (because I'm committing crimes for food ,that makes it more acceptable).

Ime going to start to Throw projectiles, hurl abuse and deploy bullying tactics to all the passing boats in order to limit or stop there safe

use of this streach of the river,

And gather public support for doing so, because at the age of 5 my puppy died, and at 7 I was told Father Christmas wasn't real.

Why would that no go area be accepted !.

And certainly can't even begin to understand how my behavior can be in anyway defended.

No dig at your post Loddon, just using it as an example

Edited May 25, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[MHS]

Sorry to hear that, I've occasionally wondered about canals where they (unfortunately) rub shoulders with areas of urban blight,

 

are there any tell-tale signs as you travel the waterways,

graffiti would be an obvious flag, but anything else get you boaters attention?

I don't think its always quite that easy as graffiti can be common near safe areas. Sometimes I reckon it brightens up a boring motorway bridge, and some is very good/ artistic.

 

I personally look out for abandoned beer bottles / cans, rubbish and vandalism to property. Shutters and grilles on nearby businesses and houses, and on the non-towpath side, boats needing protection over their windows.

[Hawkmoth]

I personally look out for abandoned beer bottles / cans, rubbish and vandalism to property. Shutters and grilles on nearby businesses and houses, and on the non-towpath side, boats needing protection over their windows.

We've recently been looking for a house. In several places we noticed grills covering doors and/or windows in some areas.

Quick turn around, and cross area off the list.

Bob

[carlt]

Carl, you do appear to be a lot more forgiving of transgression than most of us. I do bow to your humanity, but....

I do, in the main, agree with blackrose on this one.

Bob

What is there to disagree with?

 

I believe that the full force of the law should be brought down on these thugs.

 

Blackrose is misrepresenting the views of many when he suggests that they have sympathy with these people.

 

Just because I can see that society creates these thugs does not mean that I have one shred of sympathy for them as I came from a council estate very similar to the one in Stoke but I have never thrown anything at a boat except on one occasion (returning the lump hammer that a boater threw at me).

 

And certainly can't even begin to understand how my behavior can be in anyway defended.

 

Like Rosie I challenge you to find a post that defends such nasty behaviour.

[zildjian]

Ah, of course window protection, that might well be good indicator

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Yes, I'm probably talking rubbish again Carlt, take no notice.

[Bettie Boo]

We are however talking two different scenarios here, stealing because you may be desperate for food/money or to satisfy some form of addiction that you are trying to extricate yourself from is different from pelting a boat and it's owner with ammo big enough to cause physical damage to the boat and the boater.

 

That is just mindless, pointless thuggery, they gain nothing from it other than some sick satisfaction from causing distress and damage.

Problem is, a lot more delinquent youths grow up to be the adults who carry on to bigger and worse things. Far less of them grow to become the next generation of "pillars of the community". Not insinuating that "bad goes good" never happens, it does. Just not frequent enough.

 

I also have vague memories of the type of postings Blackrose is describing, but don't remember the details of the thread.

[Guest]

Problem is, a lot more delinquent youths grow up to be the adults who carry on to bigger and worse things. Far less of them grow to become the next generation of "pillars of the community". Not insinuating that "bad goes good" never happens, it does. Just not frequent enough.

 

I also have vague memories of the type of postings Blackrose is describing, but don't remember the details of the thread.

You make out as if we are making a different point but in fact if you re read our posts we are actually saying the same thing....

[Arthur Marshall]

Well that means the Police have Failed miserably for 15 years or more, in making that

stretch of the Canal and surrounding area safe for the law abiding public.

Unfortunately the police are hampered by the fact that essentially they police by consent, and if that isn't there they have a problem,. You can't just nuke a housing estate, and you can't blame the police for humanity's failings. However, I've been through Stoke dozens of times (I moor on the Macc) and up and down the Caldon at last half a dozen times and never had anything chucked at me. (I'll let you know if this is still true next week...), but in my experience ALL city/town centres are best avoided at night. That's what the countryside's for.

[carlt]

but in my experience ALL city/town centres are best avoided at night. That's what the countryside's for.

Having had my boat and home torched by vandals over a mile from the nearest village and road and several miles from the nearest town I would suggest that nowhere is immune to such behaviour.

[Bettie Boo]

You make out as if we are making a different point but in fact if you re read our posts we are actually saying the same thing....

Don't see where you read it as I was making a different point - I was sharing my thoughts in my words. Was simply saying, more delinquent youths grow up to be hardened criminals than non delinquent youths do. And that I also have a vague remembrance to the type of posts that Black Rose was making reference to.

[carlt]

And that I also have a vague remembrance to the type of posts that Black Rose was making reference to.

The problem is that when someone wants to have a reasoned sensible discussion about the sociological reasons for such anti-social behaviour the "hang 'em and flog 'em" brigade like Blackrose just misrepresent such musings as defending the low-lifes who commit such crimes.

 

Because they shout the loudest that is what the onlooker remembers (vaguely).

Edited May 25, 2014 by carlt

[MIKE P]

 

 

Just because I can see that society creates these thugs does not mean that I have one shred of sympathy for them as I came from a council estate very similar to the one in Stoke but I have never thrown anything at a boat except on one occasion (returning the lump hammer that a boater threw at me).

Why would a boater throw a lump hammer at you? Just wondering.

[Arthur Marshall]

Having had my boat and home torched by vandals over a mile from the nearest village and road and several miles from the nearest town I would suggest that nowhere is immune to such behaviour.

You are right of course.

[carlt]

Why would a boater throw a lump hammer at you? Just wondering.

I was moored near a bridgehole and felt something hitting the tarps so went out to investigate.

 

There was a boat alongside waiting for another one to come through and the husband was hanging on to the back cabin and the wife was holding on to a boathook hooked round the tarp strings and was pulling the retaining rings out of the gunwales.

 

I asked them to stop and they responded with abuse saying that they had every right to hold their boat steady.

 

After the other boat had passed the wife couldn't untangle the hook and was just yanking at it and put a hole in the tarps.

 

I went to to front and extricated the hook saying "look at the effing mess you've made!" at which point the bloke threw his lump hammer at me but luckily he missed.

 

Concerned that he would struggle to moor up later I returned it to him popping it through his closed porthole.

Edited May 26, 2014 by carlt

[MIKE P]

Can't fault you, at least you returned his property.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

I was moored near a bridgehole and felt something hitting the tarps so went out to investigate.

 

There was a boat alongside waiting for another one to come through and the husband was hanging on to the back cabin and the wife was holding on to a boathook

,,,snip,,,

I asked them to stop and they responded with abuse saying that they had every right to hold their boat steady.

,,,snip,,,

He threw his LUMP HAMMER at me, IT MISSED

,,,snip,,,

Concerned that he would struggle to moor up later I returned it to him popping it through his closed porthole.

Well I'm gobsmacked,,

I didn't think you was a violent man Carlt.

As you have suggested in last line of post below.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=61291&page=7#entry1171373

 

 

Two wrongs don't make a right !.

 

Disgraceful case of Canal rage, with an outcome very similar to the problems sufferd in the OP, Ref Throwing of Projectiles,

How do you know there wasn't a Babies Cot, or someone sitting the other side of the Porthole being showers with shards of glass and a LUMP hammer !.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[X Alan W]

Casting my mind back many years, if this happened where I think it did, near a right hand bend going away from Etruria then its been a known badspot for at least 15 years. We were warned about it when we last went up there in 2000.

We did that stretch early in the morning, 6am, for that reason.

If you are right in your thinking as to this piece of cut being where the problem for MP occurred, the place you mention has been an off & on trouble spot since the late 60`s, we had problems with the local yoof in IIRC 69 when trying to off load sheet piling in that area,also one of their favorite tricks of that time was to drop empty metal milk bottle crates from the bridges in that area. There must have been a dairy close by as they seemed to have an unlimited amount of Ammo, if they missed on the way out you where sure to run aground on them the next time you passed that way loaded. If there were not to many the weight of the boat would sometimes flatten them..Railway ballast, bricks, parts of metal fencing, seemed to be the favored boat & steerer damaging kit, sheets of corrugated iron were also well liked As at that time there were far fewer boats you were more likely to be a target, would not be allowed now days I guess, but I found a catapult & hazel nuts for ammo were a good deterrent [ Ah the good old days]

[Guest]

I don't think its always quite that easy as graffiti can be common near safe areas. Sometimes I reckon it brightens up a boring motorway bridge, and some is very good/ artistic.

 

I personally look out for abandoned beer bottles / cans, rubbish and vandalism to property. Shutters and grilles on nearby businesses and houses, and on the non-towpath side, boats needing protection over their windows.

From memory from when we passed through Stoke three years ago this was not that far from the spot where the OP's attack took place. So sometimes perhaps graffiti can be an indication that you are entering an area where you need to keep your wits about you.

 

Cockshutts lock.

 

 

Although it can be very attractive it can often make passing through an urban area a bit 'oppressive'.

Edited May 26, 2014 by The Dog House

[carlt]

Well I'm gobsmacked,,

I didn't think you was a violent man Carlt.

As you have suggested in last line of post below.

 

There was no violence involved and certainly no "canal rage".

 

I aimed it away from the people and did not intend breaking the porthole but, even if I did, I doubt there was room in their backcabin for a cot (there certainly wasn't in mine).

 

I calmly untangled their boat hook and returned it to them despite the hole in the tarp and ruined lines and was rewarded with a violent act.

 

I also couldn't give a stuff what you think of me, by the way, and my actions, though instinctive, were measured and harmed nobody and I feel fine about them, which is all that matters.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Carlt

Well done you,

 

I must have a different interpretation of violence, I thought a lump hammer through somone elses window might qualify, even if the act is threatened,let alone carried out, & irrelevant if done as a measured response as you say.

But hey as you know, I'm often wrong. And am not academicly competent to debate the interpretation of such things.

 

& for the record, I don't give a stuff what I think of me either !.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2