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eberspacher electrical misery


chubby

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Smoke and smells can be a right pain to pin down unless staring you in the face, We have to assume the exhaust is gas tight now, though of course without a pressure test it is not certain. After work has been done on a heater they often smell, I test them on my rig for an hour or more so most of it is gone before it sees the boat again, but even with new fits the exhaust lagging and heater casing can smoke and smell for some time, just greasy fingers can be a problem. Plastics like the top casing can smell sometimes too when they get hot but smoke is more of a worry if it doesn't go away after a while. It can be caused by a past overheat distorting the heat exchanger, badly fitted or missing gaskets, inapropriate gasket sealents or even age of the unit as exchangers can become porous, normal service schedules call for replacement at 10 years. Diesel smell would be quite obvious as we all recognize that.

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Hi Chubby,

Got back from a weekend away in the Lake District where there was no phone or internet signal and have just this morning caught up.

 

If the eber is now working, I'd leave everything alone and just enjoy it, (well to be honest, I probably wouldn't, I'd make sure the positive and negative connections to the eber were on opposite ends of the battery bank first). However, next time it doesn't work, I'd just try temporarily rig an additional wire from the positive battery post to the fuses and see what happens. If it then started, I'd supply the glow plug fuse with a separate wire of the correct gauge. If it didn't, I'd work methodically until it fired up.

 

Rob

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Temporarily back smiley_offtopic.gif (sorry, Chubby)

 

I replaced the exhaust on my Eber which now looks a lot better and the whole thing runs a lot quieter now too.

 

Before: with all sorts of fluffy frayedness, aluminium exhaust repair tape and a mix of corroded hoseclips and exhast clamps holding it all together.

 

20140601_183923_zps6958badc.jpg

 

And after: nice new exhaust clamps, new exhaust pipe in heatproof silicone lagging and each join sealed with exhaust paste (thanks for the advice NMEA)

 

2014-06-01200743_zpsd9311011.jpg

 

But my one question is: I thought the new exhaust would also stop the strange plastic-smelling smoke that emanates from Eber when it gets hot. It's ever so whispy and thin so only just visible when it rolls around under the back deck hatch. But it stinks out the back of the boat if the deck hatch is closed. A local boatyard chap advised me the problem was the exhaust. But I'm now sure it's not.

 

It's ever so hard to identify where the smoke is coming from - it seems to mysteriously appear from around the Eber unit itself. It doesn't smell of exhaust but of burnt plastic. However there is nothing anywhere around the unit or the exhaust and other pipes showing any sign of having gotten hot or melty. I'm wondering whether a very slow diesel leak onto the outside of the unit might make this smoke but I'm not sure it would smell like it does.

 

When it's daylight and the unit is cold, I'll check for signs of diesel on the outside of it.

 

Could a hot plastic smelling smoke be produced from a small amount of diesel burning off the hot outside of the unit? Or would that smell of something else?

 

If it was me...I wouldn't have that plastic stoarge box close to the exhaust.

 

The exhaust will easily get hot enough to start melting it....especially as in one photo you have the exhaust resting on it.

 

Also the oil container....

If the oil container melts...the contents will spread nicley everywhere...and if it was to catch fire !!!

 

I've done it...melted a conatiner of oil..and the oil has ignited...

 

NOT NICE !!

 

PS..take a close look at that storage box..or any other plastic item that you have near the exhaust. Also take a look at the exhaust itself for signs it has been melting something. I bet you find your 'smell'...

Edited by Bobbybass
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If it was me...I wouldn't have that plastic stoarge box close to the exhaust.

 

The exhaust will easily get hot enough to start melting it....especially as in one photo you have the exhaust resting on it.

 

Also the oil container....

If the oil container melts...the contents will spread nicley everywhere...and if it was to catch fire !!!

 

I've done it...melted a conatiner of oil..and the oil has ignited...

 

NOT NICE !!

 

PS..take a close look at that storage box..or any other plastic item that you have near the exhaust. Also take a look at the exhaust itself for signs it has been melting something. I bet you find your 'smell'...

 

Thanks for the advice - but I have done. Very closely and over several days of running the Eber - there's no sign of any heat damage on anything. I checked very thoroughly several times because of the unusual smoke but it's definitely not caused by anything external to the Eber unit. The perspective of the photo makes it look like the blue exhaust is touching the blue box but it's not, it's at least four or five inches away and doesn't even get slightly warm. I can say the same for the oil container as it is far from touching anything warm - it's also empty. :) It's just lurking there for when a much needed oil change happens in the near future.

 

If anything was getting warm I would know by now and would have moved it to be sure. The smoke comes from the Eber housing itself either on the left of it or the top - but it seems to emanate from no specific part, not come from any small aperture or crack or pipe.

Edited by BlueStringPudding
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Thanks for the advice - but I have done. Very closely and over several days of running the Eber - there's no sign of any heat damage on anything. I checked very thoroughly several times because of the unusual smoke but it's definitely not caused by anything external to the Eber unit. The perspective of the photo makes it look like the blue exhaust is touching the blue box but it's not, it's at least four or five inches away and doesn't even get slightly warm. I can say the same for the oil container as it is far from touching anything warm - it's also empty. smile.png It's just lurking there for when a much needed oil change happens in the near future.

 

If anything was getting warm I would know by now and would have moved it to be sure. The smoke comes from the Eber housing itself either on the left of it or the top - but it seems to emanate from no specific part, not come from any small aperture or crack or pipe.

If there's anti freeze in the system and there's a slight sweating seepage of it in the Eber, it will smell plasticy or more like like curry as it seeps out and gets baked over and over again.

Edited by bizzard
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I didn't know that. Thanks Mister Bizzard. I've just thought of something that might contribute to that. The overflow pipe for the header tank is ingeniously positioned to end just above the Eber. If that had dripped onto the hot Eber at any point (it's not wet now) and baked on that could be what's doing it.

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I didn't know that. Thanks Mister Bizzard. I've just thought of something that might contribute to that. The overflow pipe for the header tank is ingeniously positioned to end just above the Eber. If that had dripped onto the hot Eber at any point (it's not wet now) and baked on that could be what's doing it.

I should think it is BSP. Over the years working on vehicles we could always tell if there was or had been a long term coolant seepage on the engine as soon as we opened the bonnet, by the curry smell.

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Not sure I'd describe it as curry coz I like curry. But certainly molten plastic. I assume that could also be causing the faint wispy smoke that accompanies the smell.

I'd say there is a continuous slight seepage that's causing the wisps. It would only need a tiny seepage to make the smell and wisps. Do you have to top the system up very much?

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Can't tell really, can't see in it. Occasionally I poke my fingers in it as far as I can reach and if I can't feel any water I'll top it up. The valve broke some months ago and now the water supply to the tank is off - it used to top itself up but developed a leak and overflowed. I'll try to channel the overflow away from the Eber with some pipe and see if the smell and smoke disappears over time

 

Good thinking! Thanks.

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cheers

 

eta ; very confused as to the way ahead now as im getting so many different suggestions . My eber right now is working & i m more confused than when it wasn t . Now i don t know if my solars any good , i don t know whether to trust my SG . I know its fitted correctly as even i couldn t wire up a SG the wrong way .

 

cheers

:) That tickled me, needed a smile.

 

They do fail to start up from time to time (like 1 in 10 tries), 2 fails on the trot and you know something is going a miss but will probably catch on the 3rd. Thats it letting out a wee warning.

 

BSP- did you get the hot plastic smell before fitting the heat resistant silicone?

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Hi BSP, Could it be something to do with that diagonally running pipe (bottom right to top left). Job to tell from the picture but it looks like plastic plumbing pipe used as an air intake. Looks very close to the left side of the combustion changer from the picture.

 

Rob

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I can't shift that pipe (I've tried) but I could probably saw through it. It used to be connected to the air intake of the Eber but it drew the air from inside the boat which I assume is a weird adaptation by a previous owner. I didn't consider it safe and detached it - the Eber works better without it. It's showing no sign of heat damage but again, it's possible that might also be the cause.

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Not sure if it would make the heater quieter (for you) if it was drawing air from outside the hull, presumably noisier for neighbours though.

 

I'd saw it off if it's not doing anything and is works better without it.

If it's connected to a skin fitting probably worth sticking a bung in the hole if you haven't already.

 

 

 

Rob

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I can't shift that pipe (I've tried) but I could probably saw through it. It used to be connected to the air intake of the Eber but it drew the air from inside the boat which I assume is a weird adaptation by a previous owner. I didn't consider it safe and detached it - the Eber works better without it. It's showing no sign of heat damage but again, it's possible that might also be the cause.

 

Actually, I think there is a very good reason for drawing air from inside the boat - ventilation and consequent reduction in condensation. This is especially useful in Autumn and Spring when it's not cold enough for a solid fuel fire, but not warm enough to have the windows open.

 

I'd put it back if it were mine.

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Actually, I think there is a very good reason for drawing air from inside the boat - ventilation and consequent reduction in condensation. This is especially useful in Autumn and Spring when it's not cold enough for a solid fuel fire, but not warm enough to have the windows open.

 

I'd put it back if it were mine.

Good idea but at the same time the sucking effect could put BSP into a terrible vacuum with dreadful lasting results if all her doors and windows are shut tight and the vents can't cope, similar to what could happen in a WW2 submarine if the engineer didn't shut the diesels down quick enough during an emergency crash dive, horrible, I've read about it, crews body's all sucked inwards, eyes all popping out, nausea, vomiting, blood vessels popping all over the place, internal bleeding, and if the crew were lucky enough to survive this unfortunate incident can be stuck forever more with a sort of British racing green complexion and bodies all sucked in to half their original size than before they went on board the thing. Perhaps this had happened to her boats previous owners hence the disconnected pipe. Awful.

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I've read somewhere - if not in the Eber manual then maybe the BSS, that they must not draw air from inside the boat. Dunno why, I don't make da roolz!

 

With the air pipe attached the eber didn't work. And without it attached it does. Maybe coincidence or maybe not. But like Chubby - while it (temporarily) ain't broke, I'm not going to fix it.

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I've read somewhere - if not in the Eber manual then maybe the BSS, that they must not draw air from inside the boat. Dunno why, I don't make da roolz!

 

With the air pipe attached the eber didn't work. And without it attached it does. Maybe coincidence or maybe not. But like Chubby - while it (temporarily) ain't broke, I'm not going to fix it.

It might be if there's a gas leak, gas would get sucked into it and cause a premature explosion or the reason I gave. Or even a pop back and flames might shoot out into the cabin.

Edited by bizzard
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I've read somewhere - if not in the Eber manual then maybe the BSS, that they must not draw air from inside the boat. Dunno why, I don't make da roolz!

 

With the air pipe attached the eber didn't work. And without it attached it does. Maybe coincidence or maybe not. But like Chubby - while it (temporarily) ain't broke, I'm not going to fix it.

You are exactly right, air should not be drawn from accommodation areas on boats or motor homes and certainly a long pipe should not be used, not sure (and for this exercise don't care) about BSS but all heater manufacturers stipulate this. You should have a short pipe with an air intake filter/silencer. As I said all manufacturers stipulate this, what you have is basically a balanced flue unit, these kind of installs are yet another reason diesel heaters perform poorly and get a bad name, people think they know better than the people who design and make them and either do not have the knowledge or ignore the install stipulations but there are always those who think they know better.

Edited by NMEA
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Apologies. As you probably guessed, I totally misread that the air intake was drawing from inside the boat.

 

If you don't have a copy of the manual it is available to download from here, lots of useful information for a successful install.

 

Rob

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These heaters are primarily designed for lorries with small cabs. One imagines the lorry manufacturer would also stipulate that a solid fuel stove should not be used in the cab, but that doesn't mean we can't safely use a stove in a boat.

 

I take Bizzard's point about the possibility of problems with gas, but if there were that much gas around you would also have a problem with a wood or coal stove, or a gas heater. But many of us use stoves of various descriptions in a boat, alongside gas, and most of us are still alive to tell the tale.

 

The question is, does the very small likelihood of a gas explosion outweigh the very large benefit of reducing condensation?

 

Or are there other reasons for running the pipe outside?

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Warmer air from inside the accommodation space has a reduced density and therefore a reduced oxygen content which affects the mixture and burn efficiency for one, there are others but manufacturers of these heaters also make the same stipulation on combustion intake and exhausts in marine applications. They don't do it to make our lives difficult, they don't do it for a joke. There is obviously a level of "self covering" in it and that is why I also follow my training courses to the letter when installing, Installing as per the manufacturers instructions (not guidelines, instructions) always leads to the most efficient, safe and reliable systems.

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Hello

 

A few days since my last reply on here . I ve been having all sorts of fun dealing instead with a split holding tank ..... which wasn t empty at the time , so my ebers not been anywhere near the top of my to do list .

Its still working fine tho so far & making oodles of piping hot water - which is just as well really cos i ve found myself washing my hands often & thoroughly in recent days trying to deal with my latest problem !!

 

My eber air inlet is just a pipe made of flexible thin metal . No filter etc & it just slips over the relevant port at the bottom of the eber . Does this mean that warm engine air could disrupt its performance in the same way that air from within the cabin can ?

 

cheers

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My eber air inlet is just a pipe made of flexible thin metal . No filter etc & it just slips over the relevant port at the bottom of the eber . Does this mean that warm engine air could disrupt its performance in the same way that air from within the cabin can ?

 

cheers

Basically yes, but fortunately the heater is almost always used when the engine is not running, it is the correct type of air intake though a silencer would make it quieter, just route the pipe away from the heater.

Edited by NMEA
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