Vetus engines , bad press

[John V]

I am intrigued by some comments that I have seen in various posts, running down Vetus engines.

Is this only certain models/sizes or does this cover the whole range?

 

I have only limited experience of Vetus. My little cruiser when purchased was fitted with the baby two cyl model based on a Mitsubishi engine. I have now cruised several hundred miles and so far I have been very happy.

 

It has been quiet, very economical and totally reliable and I have found no problems doing the servicing

[Grace and Favour]

Whilst I don't own a Vetus 'engine', a number of components on our boat are Vetus branded.

 

They are all well made, well assembled, and reliable.

 

The main criticism of Vetus is that they are expensive (Vetus perceive themselves as a premium brand - and should therefore sell at a healthy premium)

[Richard10002]

Mines 13 years old. Hasn't missed a beat since I bought the boat in 2011. Nothing bad to say about them.

[Guest]

My sailaway came with a Vetus engine (415) and Vetus sterngear ten years and over 2000hrs cruising ago. It has been 100% relaible but we have had a few annoying issues with the cooling system, having had to do a few mods to it. It didn't have an air filter, but I fitted my own. I also find the gearbox to be noisy when engaging gear but 100% reliable. The Mitsubishi base engine is superb, and I agree it is quiet, economical and easy to service. I have been using Baldwin filters for some time now and these are high quality at a much lower price. I would consider another Vetus, but would specify a different gearbox. I would prefer a Thornycroft unit (same base engine) but I believe they are no longer producing these excellent engines.

 

More about my life with a vetus: http://destinynarrowboat.weebly.com/vetus.html

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya John V.

 

I'm glad you started this thread, as I too am interested in the origins of some comments made ref Vetus Engines,

I have never had one either, but would like to know why the bad press so to say for future reference.

[b0atman]

my friend has a 850cc vetus in his boat and hes certainly had good service Boat is a springer .

[andyb116]

I have a totally vetus boat, in 6 months living aboard I've had no problems with any of the systems. The engine has done 300 hours in 12 months including some towing, I've serviced it myself every 100 hours and it's never missed a beat.

[RLWP]

I am intrigued by some comments that I have seen in various posts, running down Vetus engines.

 

Have you read further posts in the recent thread?

 

Richard

[John V]

 

Have you read further posts in the recent thread?

 

Richard

 

I've not particularly followed any thread its just a recent post sounded rather disparaging of Vetus and it got me thinking, that over the last few months I have got an impression there were a few people who were not keen

[Guest]

I will say that there seems to be a lot of prejudice towards the Vetus stern gear. I have seen several claims for "sinkings" by same over the years, but nobody has supplied a link to same when I have asked. Many canal boats have these units fitted, and I know Liverpool shells had them in for a number of years. I think I first saw one 20 years ago, though the mind plays tricks. I have yet to hear of any catastrophic failures. My experience of same has been mostly good, though I do like the look of the PSS seal, and will consider one when the Vetus is knackered.

Whilst I don't own a Vetus 'engine', a number of components on our boat are Vetus branded.

 

They are all well made, well assembled, and reliable.

 

The main criticism of Vetus is that they are expensive (Vetus perceive themselves as a premium brand - and should therefore sell at a healthy premium)

I seem to recall one member being quoted 800 quid for a Vetus starter motor?

[Guest]

edit

 

Edited May 18, 2014 by Guest

[Ricco1]

I have the little Vetus 2 cylinder in my boat.

 

Positives: It's economical, and fairly quiet.

 

Negatives: Poor design: The oil dipstick is in the worst place possible, tucked under the oil filter. The only way you can locate it is by touch. Poor design again: the alternator can't be swung back fully to accept a new v belt, as it hits the engine body. Poor design again: a hose to the skin tank has to be removed to replace the v belt. Really stupidly expensively priced parts. Silly yellow paint that falls off and looks a right mess.

 

I wouldn't have another.

[Mac of Cygnet]

I have the little Vetus 2 cylinder in my boat.

 

Positives: It's economical, and fairly quiet.

 

Negatives: Poor design: The oil dipstick is in the worst place possible, tucked under the oil filter. The only way you can locate it is by touch. Poor design again: the alternator can't be swung back fully to accept a new v belt, as it hits the engine body. Poor design again: a hose to the skin tank has to be removed to replace the v belt. Really stupidly expensively priced parts. Silly yellow paint that falls off and looks a right mess.

 

I wouldn't have another.

 

I have the same engine, but raw water cooled, with a heat exchanger. Yes, the dipstick is awkward (I have it on a string, otherwise it would have dropped into the bilge many times), as is changing filters, but both would be OK if it weren't shoehorned into the space beneath my back deck. I don't recognise the problems with the alternator belt - I recently changed one with no trouble and certainly without having to remove anything.

 

Consumables and spares are certainly expensive. Baldwin filters (equivalents sourced from Inline Filters) are less than half the price of Vetus branded ones, but other equivalents can be hard to find - I've had to pay through the nose for a temperature sender (£80) and heater plugs (£40) for example.

[dor]

The Vetus 4 cylinder engines (M4.15, M4.17) are based on Mitsubishi engines which are almost unburstable, so nothing wrong with the engine itself. The TNC gearboxes usually fitted are another matter and, whilst they are fine in sea-going boats, they do struggle in canal boats where they are constantly being put in and out of gear. Fitting a PRM150 makes a world of difference.

 

Nothing wrong with the Vetus stern gear as long as you get the alignment right and top up the silicone grease every hundred hours. If it drips it is either because the grease hasn't been topped up or it is out of alignment.

 

ETA: they are not painted yellow by the way, they are gold plated. Except the parts that are solid gold. As Cat mentions, you can get alternative filters that are a fraction of the price and the same spec.

Edited May 18, 2014 by dor

[Ricco1]

 

I have the same engine, but raw water cooled, with a heat exchanger. Yes, the dipstick is awkward (I have it on a string, otherwise it would have dropped into the bilge many times), as is changing filters, but both would be OK if it weren't shoehorned into the space beneath my back deck. I don't recognise the problems with the alternator belt - I recently changed one with no trouble and certainly without having to remove anything.

 

Consumables and spares are certainly expensive. Baldwin filters (equivalents sourced from Inline Filters) are less than half the price of Vetus branded ones, but other equivalents can be hard to find - I've had to pay through the nose for a temperature sender (£80) and heater plugs (£40) for example.

 

My temperature sender played up as well although it fixed itself in time. In the meantime I found £88 was the best price for a new one. An Audi 80 one will fit though, I think it was £12.

[kevinl]

6 years as a Vetus owner and no complaints, I've seen the rumours on here but never seen anything to substantiate them other that the official spare's pricelist which is a rip off. Like anything you can buy a good one or a bad one, unless someone works out the number of engines out there divides by the number of boats and all that it's not possible to say. BMC's seem to come up with problems a lot but there's a lot of them out there likewise Gardners, Listers and the rest. But up against all the other far east engines it seems as good as any. You could have the same discussion about hulls, water heaters or any number of other things, get a good one and they're brilliant get a bad one and they're rubbish.
K

[dor]

6 years as a Vetus owner and no complaints, I've seen the rumours on here but never seen anything to substantiate them other that the official spare's pricelist which is a rip off. Like anything you can buy a good one or a bad one, unless someone works out the number of engines out there divides by the number of boats and all that it's not possible to say. BMC's seem to come up with problems a lot but there's a lot of them out there likewise Gardners, Listers and the rest. But up against all the other far east engines it seems as good as any. You could have the same discussion about hulls, water heaters or any number of other things, get a good one and they're brilliant get a bad one and they're rubbish.

K

Only 4% of Vetus engines go into inland waterway boats. I think if they were as unreliable as some people like to make out, then you wouldn't want to go to sea in one. The TMC gearboxes ability to withstand frequent operation is another matter. You probably go in and out of gear more times going up the Audlem flight than a fishing boat does in a year. More and more Vetus engines are now fitted with a PRM150.

[John V]

Thanks all....The results so far are about what I expected

 

Kevini I think sums it up fairly well.

 

Rico1 my engine is the baby 2 pot and I agree about the dip stick being awkwardly placed, I have to get on hands and knees alongside the engine to get to it. However this is due more to the fact that the engine is under the galley sink and access to one side of the engine is from the galley, the other side from the toilet

.

Like Mac of Cygnet, my engine is cooled via a heat exchanger and I didn't have any problems changing belts so I presume your problems are possibly caused by the skin cooling.

 

Dor...(.my Vetus has a PRM box by the way ) and you are dead right Vetus seems to be a more common in gin palaces

 

So far (touch wood) I have only needed consumeables and I just took the original filters to my local agricultural supplies store, dumped them on the counter and said they were for a Mitsubishi. They thumbed through the catalogues, produced 2 equivalents and that was that.

 

I like big old fashioned engines, Deutz, Listers,Gardiners etc but I have ended up with Far Eastern engines. Both the inboards have given excellent service (I won't talk about the outboard) The barge has a Daewoo (Watermota) which is a lovely grumbling beast that has been in the boat for about 12 years although hasn't done that many hours (8 ltr 6 cyl)

[Guest]

One thing I haven't noticed mentioned in this thread, is Vetus instructions that the (415) engine should not be run for more than "a few minutes" at idle; a point that has surprised some owners. When I first bought the engine I pushed Vetus on this and they did say it was "better" to run the engine at 1100-1200 rpm if battery charging, but they weren't keen on the idea. I have been given two explanations; that it glazes the bores, and/or hurts the gearbox. I have avoided this type of charging with my engine as I would sooner use a small genny when stationary.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Guest

[MtB]

My perception of the Vetus problem is the massive price of Vetus branded spare parts rather than an inherent unreliability of the engines.

 

 

MtB

[John V]

My perception of the Vetus problem is the massive price of Vetus branded spare parts rather than an inherent unreliability of the engines.

 

 

MtB

 

since the cost of spares was brought up I have done a bit of pricing.....they certainly are eye watering. I wonder how many of the bits are available as bog standard industrial parts though

[Geoff Taylor]

Hi, Spares costs will always be a concern, in mass produced engines they are usually cheaper as many after market non genuine parts are easily available and in many cases the manufacturers bow down on their prices in order to compete after realising how lucrative the market is.

 

In a fictional example,lets say a Vetus water pump has a life of 2000 hours before failure and costs £100 and a BMC pump lasts 1000 hours and costs £50 so both items are technically the same price looking at it that way.

 

I have seen the following example so many times that it applies to 100s of different makes of engines that are out there from a Briggs & Stratton to a Rolls Royce!!.

 

A correctly maintained BMC (or any make of mass produced engine) will almost certainly outlast any badly serviced/neglected engine that is considered a better more expensive option to the mass produced unit.

[MtB]

 

since the cost of spares was brought up I have done a bit of pricing.....they certainly are eye watering. I wonder how many of the bits are available as bog standard industrial parts though

 

Probably most of them, but only by buying the Vetus branded expensive one do you get guaranteed compatibility.

 

My own anecdote here. When I was wiring up ALDEBARAN a few years ago I needed another 150 Amp 'MegaFuse' holder. The last one I bought was £6 or so on eBay but I needed it now so I went down to Val Wyatt boatyard in Wargrave to get one. They only had Vetus branded ones. very similar in appearance and quality to my six quid ebay ones but the Vetus price was £70. Feckin' 'ell!!

 

MtB