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Another new way to lose your Licence


Tony Dunkley
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They won't he is more of a scaremonger than a troll.

 

That scenario is not wrong in CRT's eyes.

 

The original poster is merely scaremongering on the back of a different scenario.

 

 

And trying to drum up traffic to NBW.

 

MtB

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You might call it "shuffling about" but how about calling it using your boat on every day for which your 365 day Licence runs? Just to clear up your incorrect assumptions, my boat use is local to my mooring.

 

Really how local?

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There is a couple at the marina here, who arrive most every Friday evening (on occasion it's Saturday morning), jump on board and then return late Sunday afternoon or early evening.

 

"apparently" they head up the GU to their favorite tow path mooring spot, spend a night or two and then come back to the marina and head back to their jobs and bricks & mortar till the following weekend.

 

I have no idea if where they moor up is 48 hour / 14 day or if it's even marked.

 

Is this wrong in CRT eyes? If it is, I don't understand why.

This is fine although if you were in a marina near Foxton or Stoke Breune there would be a limit to how many days you go do this for in a month due to the introduction of no return rules and penalty charges. There was much talk to increase the sites with this restriction but CRT have agreed to make no further changes this year.

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Nope.

 

If you have a 'marina or a home mooring' you can shuffle about from A to B and back again to your heart's content provided you observe the time limits applying to any particular mooring you stay on.

 

If you have no home mooring, you cannot go from A to B and back again, you must move on to a series of new 'places' i.e. A to B to C to D etc.

 

 

MtB

That's right -- but C&RT's new interpretation of Clause 2.1 of the Licence T&C's ( the one that says you can moor for up to 14 days whilst cruising) is that if you return to the same place without going somewhere else first you are not "cruising" -- so that means you can't moor for up to 14 days. I am not kidding about this, it has been explained in those words by C&RT's Enforcement Gang.

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That's right -- but C&RT's new interpretation of Clause 2.1 of the Licence T&C's ( the one that says you can moor for up to 14 days whilst cruising) is that if you return to the same place without going somewhere else first you are not "cruising" -- so that means you can't moor for up to 14 days. I am not kidding about this, it has been explained in those words by C&RT's Enforcement Gang.

You have lost there!! Surely you have to cruise to be able to return? Am I missing something here?
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That's right -- but C&RT's new interpretation of Clause 2.1 of the Licence T&C's ( the one that says you can moor for up to 14 days whilst cruising) is that if you return to the same place without going somewhere else first you are not "cruising" -- so that means you can't moor for up to 14 days. I am not kidding about this, it has been explained in those words by C&RT's Enforcement Gang.

28 days in one place would be breaching the rules....

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That's right -- but C&RT's new interpretation of Clause 2.1 of the Licence T&C's ( the one that says you can moor for up to 14 days whilst cruising) is that if you return to the same place without going somewhere else first you are not "cruising" -- so that means you can't moor for up to 14 days. I am not kidding about this, it has been explained in those words by C&RT's Enforcement Gang.

 

In writing, I hope!

 

If not, it's just an employee's personal interpretation of the rule.

 

 

MtB

Just for clarity, here's Rule 2.1 copy N pasted from the CRT site:

 

2. Use of the boat

2.1. The Licence allows you to use the Boat in any Waterway including mooring for short periods while

cruising. ‘Short period’ means up to 14 days or less where a local restriction applies. The Licence

does not permit mooring for any longer period. Daily charges may be applied for staying longer than

the maximum time allowed.

 

 

It doesn't say anything about where you may or may not moor for the short periods.

 

MtB

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They won't he is more of a scaremonger than a troll.

 

That scenario is not wrong in CRT's eyes.

 

The original poster is merely scaremongering on the back of a different scenario.

 

 

This is fine although if you were in a marina near Foxton or Stoke Breune there would be a limit to how many days you go do this for in a month due to the introduction of no return rules and penalty charges. There was much talk to increase the sites with this restriction but CRT have agreed to make no further changes this year.

Thanks both, that makes it clearer. I just couldn't see how what this couple do could be wrong. At the end of the day, their boat is on their home mooring (marina) 5 nights a week.

 

And, now that I think of it, when Dave and I go out for a cruise we have tended to only turn left when leaving Braunston so far (haven't had a go at the locks or tunnel yet) and when we moor up for a night it's normally within a few hundred yards of where we moored the last time we stayed on the cut for a night. Nice quiet & pretty little area between bridges 103 and 102

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Thanks both, that makes it clearer. I just couldn't see how what this couple do could be wrong. At the end of the day, their boat is on their home mooring (marina) 5 nights a week.

 

And, now that I think of it, when Dave and I go out for a cruise we have tended to only turn left when leaving Braunston so far (haven't had a go at the locks or tunnel yet) and when we moor up for a night it's normally within a few hundred yards of where we moored the last time we stayed on the cut for a night. Nice quiet & pretty little area between bridges 103 and 102

The key is you are not only returning to your mooring but also not staying anywhere longer than 14 days.

 

The problems could start if you left the marina, turned left moored at your fave spot, turned, cruised past the marina moored just up from the marina and kept repeating that patten until CRT spotted your boat shuffling up and down.

 

Some boaters do this on popular spots but have a home mooring on a cheaper part of the system many many miles away.

 

As ever it's just understanding what you need to do to stay within what CRT require, it's only those that think they can take the pee and that they can exploit some sort of perceived loophole that get themselves into trouble.

 

Local means local -- if you're struggling to understand it, go and buy a Dictionary -- you might even get one locally.

I understand the term. I am not struggling to understand it, I have a dictionary on my desk but don't need to use it.

 

Try answering the actual question.

Edited by The Dog House
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Local means local -- if you're struggling to understand it, go and buy a Dictionary -- you might even get one locally.

 

So if i understand your posting, your saying that you leave your marina, moor in a favourite spot for 14 days, tootle off for a few hours cruise and return to that same spot on the same day for another stay of a few days?

 

Is that correct?

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Please do not get carried away with Ghost Moorings they are not common. The main problem is boats that have come out of a marina and not notifying CRT it is also the same with people buying boats they are declaring them as the marina where the boat was purchased or else just renewing the licence and doing a name and address change but not changing the mooring details.

 

So if i understand your posting, your saying that you leave your marina, moor in a favourite spot for 14 days, tootle off for a few hours cruise and return to that same spot on the same day for another stay of a few days?

 

Is that correct?

Some do think that going to water up counts as a cruise :)
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It would appear from what he says in NBW that things have gone beyond rumour for him personally.

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php/news-flash/6791-do-cc-rules-apply-to-all

 

They refuse to renew your licence then instigate the section 8 process for having an unlicensed boat.

I bet he wont reveal where his mooring is and where he was overstaying.

I doubt they are in the same area and he is just another shuffler but with a home mooring.

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I bet he wont reveal where his mooring is and where he was overstaying.

I doubt they are in the same area and he is just another shuffler but with a home mooring.

Actually he has...

 

Apparently it was 'local' to where he was shuffling......

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Actually he has...

 

Apparently it was 'local' to where he was shuffling......

Fraid not local can mean different things to different people.

I was thinking more along the lines of two specific places that are on the OS map.

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Fraid not local can mean different things to different people.

I was thinking more along the lines of two specific places that are on the OS map.

You missed my point... But never mind.

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Yes it would be --so now we all know you can add up as well as having to stand up to talk.

Of course I can. 14 days in one place without moving added to another 14 days in the same place equals 28 days without moving, what is not to understand?

 

No idea what the gibberish in the latter part of your post was about, but I guess it was some sort of an attempt at an insult.

 

You sound a tad miffed that your original post hasn't been greeted on here with outrage and disgust....if you expected that you have come to the wrong forum.....

  • Greenie 2
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Please do not get carried away with Ghost Moorings they are not common. The main problem is boats that have come out of a marina and not notifying CRT it is also the same with people buying boats they are declaring them as the marina where the boat was purchased or else just renewing the licence and doing a name and address change but not changing the mooring details.

:)

I actually challenged Sally Ash on this very point as she alluded to the introduction of the no return rules as a mechanism to combat the ghost mooring problem. When I asked her to quantify the scale was it hundreds or thousands she was unable to give me an approx number despite the introduction of the no return sanction effecting some 33,000 boaters. Guess there must be a large number of suspected Ghost moorers in the Foxton and Stoke Breune area.

 

Sally stated that they were unable to get the information on boaters taking up agreements or moving on from the marinas, this strikes me as more of a problem of the relationship that exists between CRT and it's customers and is fixable with some effort surely.

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The problem here is that CRT are re-interpreting what "cruising" means in their terms and conditions. Since the actual law (not byelaw, or terms and conditions) defines that CCers (apologies for the slang term) have to move on every 14 days; then one can see since there was a requirement to spell it out for CCers, and no such spelling it out to those with a home mooring; that they don't have to move to another place after the 14 days. In other words, they can moor at place A, go for a short cruise (the only requirement would be to unmoor, given the wording of the terms and conditions) then return to place A for another 14 days. (Shorter time limits eg visitor moorings; or a valid non-return period rule, respected).

 

 

 

Section 17(3)© British Waterways Act 1995 states that BW may refuse a licence (“relevant consent”) unless

(i) BW is satisfied the relevant vessel has a home mooring or

(ii) the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances.
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but Bettie, you cannot turn right unless you book in advance or take a chance and go in the dead of night.rolleyes.gif

LOL - I'm bricking it thinking of going through that tunnel for the first time!! can guarantee it won't be in the dead of night - hence why we always turn left :)

 

The key is you are not only returning to your mooring but also not staying anywhere longer than 14 days.

 

The problems could start if you left the marina, turned left moored at your fave spot, turned, cruised past the marina moored just up from the marina and kept repeating that patten until CRT spotted your boat shuffling up and down.

 

Some boaters do this on popular spots but have a home mooring on a cheaper part of the system many many miles away.

 

As ever it's just understanding what you need to do to stay within what CRT require, it's only those that think they can take the pee and that they can exploit some sort of perceived loophole that get themselves into trouble.

 

I understand the term. I am not struggling to understand it, I have a dictionary on my desk but don't need to use it.

 

Try answering the actual question.

Thanks DH, I thought I had my head around guidelines, but this thread had me double guessing my understanding.frusty.gif

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I would like to know the back story to this as it must have gone on a long time to get to S8.

 

However straying over to the dark side I find one part of the write up particularly interesting, I am left with the impression (probably wrongly) of somebody who is spending 14 days in one place going "home" for a day or so and returning. I can visualise a situation where somebody has a "home" mooring but it is too far away to commute to work but can be reached and returned from in a weekend. So 14 days out on the cut nip back to the mooring and out again in time for work. Repeat as necessary.

 

N.B. I am not suggesting this is what the OP does I am saying it is a scenario I could imagine from the general tone of the NBW "article".

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