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Another new way to lose your Licence


Tony Dunkley
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C&RT are trying out a new form of nonsense which, if they get away with it, will mean that boat owners with home moorings who like to take regular or frequent weekend trips on the same stretch of waterway to an overnight mooring in the same vicinity as the week before will find their Licences under threat for alleged breaching of Clause 2.1 of the Licence T&C's. This Clause says you can moor for short periods whilst cruising, but C&RT are now claiming that regular and frequent returns to the same location is not "cruising" and so you are not complying with Clause 2,1. The Towpath Traffic Wardens are under instructions to record sightings on two different dates at the same place as evidence that a boat has not moved. Lets hope the DVLA don't pick up on the idea and threaten us all with losing our car Road Tax (Licence) if we park on,or use, the same stretch of road too often.

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C&RT are trying out a new form of nonsense which, if they get away with it, will mean that boat owners with home moorings who like to take regular or frequent weekend trips on the same stretch of waterway to an overnight mooring in the same vicinity as the week before will find their Licences under threat for alleged breaching of Clause 2.1 of the Licence T&C's. This Clause says you can moor for short periods whilst cruising, but C&RT are now claiming that regular and frequent returns to the same location is not "cruising" and so you are not complying with Clause 2,1. The Towpath Traffic Wardens are under instructions to record sightings on two different dates at the same place as evidence that a boat has not moved. Lets hope the DVLA don't pick up on the idea and threaten us all with losing our car Road Tax (Licence) if we park on,or use, the same stretch of road too often.[/size]

Yes this has been mentioned on here before.

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Is this for real or just some trolling? I dare say that CRT would have to have a very poor understanding of the rules of evidence if they think that their TTW's sighting is going to count for anything more than evidence of where the boat was at a precise point in time.

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And the general idea is that it's aimed at folk who have a home mooring in some "grim and cheap up North" location, whilst never leaving the western K&A for years.

No it has I believe been suggested CRT were proposing to clamp down on this in the very way the OP suggests.

 

Ie cruising out and back from your home mooring along the same stretch of waterway was 'against the rules'. ISTR somebody came on here and claimed somebody in our neck of the woods had been 'done' for it.

 

I thought it was bollocks at the time and still do as I fail to see how it contravenes anything and I await my day in court.....

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And the general idea is that it's aimed at folk who have a home mooring in some "grim and cheap up North" location, whilst never leaving the western K&A for years.

 

That's not exactly the way it's presented by the OP, is it? The OP makes it sound like 'Omer and Marge are going to be banished from their favorite pub-side mooring that they frequent after a pleasant day's cruise from their home marina.

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Do you write for the Dark Side - just asking?

 

A controversial 1st post.

Don't know who the Dark Side are -- is it the thoroughly nasty bunch called the Enforcement Team left over from the bad old days of British Waterways and now stopping at nothing to try and justify the huge cost of employing them.

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Don't know who the Dark Side are -- is it the thoroughly nasty bunch called the Enforcement Team left over from the bad old days of British Waterways and now stopping at nothing to try and justify the huge cost of employing them.

Ok I will bite,

 

What evidence do you have to support this assertion?

 

Boat names, dates/times places etc etc

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Boat names, dates/times places etc etc

That would not be available under data protection until such time as the boats involved are issued with a court summons for having a boat on the system without a licence. As I said with current enforcement and the time it takes to get to court might have to wait for a few years.

And the general idea is that it's aimed at folk who have a home mooring in some "grim and cheap up North" location, whilst never leaving the western K&A for years.

Not disagreeing with you Nick but I think that would rather highlight the problem of inconsistent enforcement if that was the case
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Do you write for the Dark Side - just asking?

 

A controversial 1st post.

From the Dark Side...

 

 

Do CC rules apply to all? thursday, 03 april 2014 09:32

Breaking the unwritten rules—or—don't expect to be left in peace by Canal & River Trust to enjoy what you have paid for, writes Tony Dunkley.

 

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That would not be available under data protection until such time as the boats involved are issued with a court summons for having a boat on the system without a licence. As I said with current enforcement and the time it takes to get to court might have to wait for a few years.

I thought the OP perhaps knew of examples of boaters who CRT were initiating proceedings against for breaching this, but I am not going to hold my breath waiting for any.

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Looking at the unusual size of font in the OP I think it has an air of cut and paste about it

It looks quite a normal size to me, but I don't believe for a moment what he's trying to tell us.

Cut and paste? Hmm, possibly a letter missing?

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n?

That's a fing wot lays eggs and walks around going "cluck" according to my Essex wife. Free range n, preferably.

But I think you got the idea wink.png.

Edited by Athy
  • Greenie 2
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Well non return rules are being introduced at certain places so guess this would save on lots of signs but as CRT never seem to quite get to grips with enforcement think this is hardly a worry

 

Always worry about rules. Lack of immediate enforcement means nothing. Once the rules are on the books, enforcement can be enhanced at any time.

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I thought the OP perhaps knew of examples of boaters who CRT were initiating proceedings against for breaching this, but I am not going to hold my breath waiting for any.

I guess like the £25 overstaying charge I understand there have been 2 boats fined but that is just hearsay. I think the OP is simply saying things as he understands them to be like all these things rumour and more rumour and as was pointed out this is not a new subject it has been done before. If I had a home mooring I would watch what is happening but at this stage not worry to much especially if my mooring was in the north western part of the system
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That would not be available under data protection until such time as the boats involved are issued with a court summons for having a boat on the system without a licence. As I said with current enforcement and the time it takes to get to court might have to wait for a few years.

Not disagreeing with you Nick but I think that would rather highlight the problem of inconsistent enforcement if that was the case

 

 

'Enforcement' puzzles me deeply.

 

Let's assume I inadvertently contravene this new 'rule' Tony Dunkley (from NBW it seems, known here colloquially as 'The Dark Side') tells us about and I 'get done' for it. What happens next?

 

A) Do I get fined by CRT? Or...

B) Do I have to appear in Court and get fined by the magistrates? Or...

C) Something else?

 

Can someone explain please?

 

Same question regarding overstaying. What if I stay 15 days on a countryside towpath spot and 'get done' for it? And how would I know I'm 'getting done' for it?

 

What does 'getting done' mean, exactly?

 

 

Many thanks.

 

MtB

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I think the OP is simply saying things as he understands them to be like all these things rumour and more rumour and as was pointed out this is not a new subject it has been done before.

 

It would appear from what he says in NBW that things have gone beyond rumour for him personally.

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php/news-flash/6791-do-cc-rules-apply-to-all

 

 

 

What does 'getting done' mean, exactly?

 

 

They refuse to renew your licence then instigate the section 8 process for having an unlicensed boat.

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Always worry about rules. Lack of immediate enforcement means nothing. Once the rules are on the books, enforcement can be enhanced at any time.

The thing is this boating pattern is pretty common for a massive number of boaters who do have a home mooring. The last two marinas we moored in was full of boaters who pooled out on a Friday night after work and then pooled back on Sunday afternoon. All perfectly within the rules as far as I am concerned and something that is replicated right across the entire system.

 

When you can only spend two nights at a time and you only have two directions you can travel, right or left out of the marina entrance it's all that can be reasonably expected.

 

CRT would make themselves a laughing stock if they tried to enforce such a requirement.

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'Enforcement' puzzles me deeply.

 

Let's assume I inadvertently contravene this new 'rule' Tony Dunkley (from NBW it seems, known here colloquially as 'The Dark Side') tells us about and I 'get done' for it. What happens next?

 

A) Do I get fined by CRT? Or...

B) Do I have to appear in Court and get fined by the magistrates? Or...

C) Something else?

 

Can someone explain please?

 

Same question regarding overstaying. What if I stay 15 days on a countryside towpath spot and 'get done' for it? And how would I know I'm 'getting done' for it?

 

What does 'getting done' mean, exactly?

 

 

Many thanks.

 

MtB

Well if it is anything like those without a home mooring you get 3 chances

 

1. A pre cc1 - swarming to say you are breaking the rules

2. A cc1 - to yell you that your boat is now being watched closely

3. A cc2 to tell you next time you will lose your licence

4. A cc3 - licence taken away and to late past the point of no return

 

Problem is most boaters do not seem to worry until it is to late instead of changing their behaviour at the pre cc1 stage

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They refuse to renew your licence then instigate the section 8 process for having an unlicensed boat.

 

 

Blimey. Even for a first offence?

 

Even if one offers to grovel and pay them loads of money not to be classed as a fine?

 

 

MtB

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