From Kennet and Avon to France - dimensions?

[Emma Giffard]

Hi there,

We're planning to sell our house and take a couple of years out before we get locked down to school with kids. We're hoping to buy a boat, preferably a Dutch-style barge capable of being piloted across the Channel. We would stay on the Kennet and Avon near Bath / Bristol for the winter before heading to the European canal network in the spring.

I'm struggling to get to grips with what is actually a realistic beam size for this - within reason, we want the biggest boat we can manage on the K&A but there seems to be a lot of conflicting info about what you can actually take from Bath - London. I understand the theoretical 13ft 10in is perhaps not possible because some lock gates don't open fully and the edges of the canal channel are very silted in places. But I can't find any solid info anywhere about what is actually a realistic beam! We're looking at something like 65ft - 68ft in length to give us a few feet leeway. I know the European canals are much larger and I imagine that if your boat is too small it would quite intimidating over there, besides the fact that we want space for the kids (we'll have an infant and a 3 yr old).

Any advice would be welcome - also if anyone has any tips on boats for sale - obviously we're looking on Apollo Duck etc

Many thanks for your help

Kind Regards

Emma

[Athy]

Welcome Emma, and good luck with your exciting and ambitious project.

 

Have you considered buying a boat in France? The monthly magazine Fluvial always has lots of barges for sale. There are at least a couple of French-based members on this forum who will doubtless be able to give you first-hand advice.,

 

Bonne chance!

[GUMPY]

don't go over 20m/65ft as the regs are much more stringent in EU above that.

Google TRIWV for more info on that.

Size wise I would go no larger than 65x12.6 it will be easier to handle than a full K&A size barge.

[Emma Giffard]

Thanks very much for that - we have considered the fact that it may be preferable to try and rent a barge for the winter and buy something in France for the spring. We're aware of the TRIWV regs and also taking that into consideration - a lot of the trouble is that there are a limited number of boats on the market so it would be good to have some flexibility on size.

[Clifford]

Fantastic!

 

That must be the most ambitious post ever to appear in "New to Boating"!

 

I blame Tim Spall.

 

I can only admire your get up and go. I live in Sheffield and have never boated to Rotherham!

[Emma Giffard]

I know we probably sound hopelessly naive Clifford but my father was passionate about barges and I learned a lot from him. Nothing to do with Timothy Spall I'm afraid

[Athy]

. I live in Sheffield and have never boated to Rotherham!

I have been to Rotherham. You wouldn't want to.

[Proper Job]

I'm not sure how hot they are on it now, but anything longer that 50' was not able to use 'town moorings' in France.

 

And I definately wouldnd go above 20m

 

Something you may want to consider?

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

We had no problem at 13ft 6 inch wide on the K&A. Consider what we did and hire Tam and Di's skippered barge for an exploration of french waterways. http://www.bargehandling.com

[Clifford]

You are cheating .. you aren't "New to Boating" at all!

 

Have you read "Narrow dog to Carcassonne"? If not, you may find some inspiration, and a few laughs.

 

By the way. I like Rotherham. But never boated there (boat is at Barton). Rovrem is not perhaps the best overnight spot. But if anyone wants to start a "Nice boaty bits in Rotherham" thread, I will read it avidly. Dash it, I'll start one myself!

[Proper Job]

.....................

 

I can only admire your get up and go. I live in Sheffield and have never boated to Rotherham!

 

I thought that was a typo and he meant to say Rotterdam, but if he hasn't got as far as Rotherham, Rotterdam is a tad further

 

[The Pipe]

Boats tend to be cheaper in Holland especially now, with a far bigger market than France. Boats in the UK are to me over priced.

Have a look at these sites.

http://www.yachtfocus.com/

http://www.botentekoop.nl/

http://www.multiships.nl/index.php

[Clifford]

Rotherham / Rotterdam. What's to choose between them?

 

I suppose they speak better English in one of them.

[Tam & Di]

Thanks very much for that - we have considered the fact that it may be preferable to try and rent a barge for the winter and buy something in France for the spring. We're aware of the TRIWV regs and also taking that into consideration - a lot of the trouble is that there are a limited number of boats on the market so it would be good to have some flexibility on size.

I think I saw a barge up for rent in France on the Dutch Barge Assn (DBA) website recently. It would certainly be worth your while to look into the DBA as source material. You are more limited with your size requirements if you are on the K&A, but could go for something larger if you are in Bath itself. Contrary to what has been said here there is no great problem in France or the continent generally with craft over 20m - the TRIWV only specify what any owner sound of mind would want by way of specification and safety gear. Marinas do not generally like craft over 15m, but there are plenty of other places to moor.

 

Tam

[bargemast]

I'm not sure how hot they are on it now, but anything longer that 50' was not able to use 'town moorings' in France.

 

And I definately wouldnd go above 20m

 

Something you may want to consider?

This is something new to me, I've never heard about this, and have never experienced it either while on much bigger barges.

 

Peter.

 

Edit to ad after reading what Tam wrote, Yes, several Ports de Plaisance have a limit of 15 meter, but there are plenty left that accept bigger boats.

Edited May 12, 2014 by bargemast

[Phil Ambrose]

I think I saw a barge up for rent in France on the Dutch Barge Assn (DBA) website recently. It would certainly be worth your while to look into the DBA as source material. You are more limited with your size requirements if you are on the K&A, but could go for something larger if you are in Bath itself. Contrary to what has been said here there is no great problem in France or the continent generally with craft over 20m - the TRIWV only specify what any owner sound of mind would want by way of specification and safety gear. Marinas do not generally like craft over 15m, but there are plenty of other places to moor.

 

Tam

Tam, am I right in saying to boat on the Continent you need to take an exam, CEVNI? to demonstrate a level of comptance.

Phil

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya, & Welcome to the forum.

 

I had very little trouble Cruising the K&A and a few Rivers & Canals in France ending up in Marseilles in my boat.(Have a look on the For Sale & Wanted board for Dimensions as a guide ect)

Just be very mindful of Air Hight, it is fair to say that a smaller boat can get in at most moorings,but many a time I hung off a bigger chap for a night or two,and recommend you go in company with another boat as this gives Piece of mind, more security and better scope for taking it in turns for exploring the Towns, Villages on foot.

And Sir Phil is quite correct, you do need a Cevni enforcement on your ICC license.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Phil Ambrose]

Thanks for clearing that up Paul, it is not jus enough to have a boat and go, there is a lot of stuff to consider even a simple thing like having red diesel in your tank can be an issue, make sure if you go to have receipts for the fuel in your tank, the police can and do board vessels to check.

Phil

(How was Cowes Paul)

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

If the Weather is ok, I'm Meeting my mate in Cows this coming Weekend, Just to wave them on their way. Then I'm over to Poole for a day, then if the weather is ok to get back, I will, or if not I can stop off at a few little pleases I know in Langston Harbour, But whatever happens I need to be back at Littlehampton for the 19th as I'm hopefully meeting someone at the Marina. have to be honest, Solent area is my least favorite in the whole country for cruising. Hate it.

However if the weather is to crappie, then I stay put.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Emma Giffard]

Thank you all so much for all the really useful info and encouraging comments. I know that a lot of plans like this fall victim to inertia but hopefully we've got the motivation to see it through! Another question - I know this would depend on various factors, but can anyone give a general indication on the costs for hiring a pilot to cross the Channel (I imagine Thames - Calais is the most economical route or are there other things to consider?) I know most people are looking to bring cheaper Continental boats across to the UK after buying them so we just need to figure out on our budget if it's madness to buy in the UK and go the other way, especially if we ultimately intend to come back (although who knows what happens...). Trouble is, we really need to be in the UK this winter.

[Phil Ambrose]

Have a look at wwwnarrowdog.com

Terry Darlington took his NB across with a pilot and there may well be some reference on his website, he may well respond to a request for info (we swopped e-mails back in 2009)

I wish you luck with your adventure but please make sure you do your homework regarding the essential bits of paper, licenses, lights for the boat, find out about "Blue Boarding" etc etc

Phil

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

As above,

Seconded.

Also have a look at Sell up & Sail, by Bill and Laurel Cooper.

It's probably on about it's 7th Edition now. But the 1st and 2nd was fab. My now Ex Misses use to read it in the evenings. Well Worth a read. (I've still got Half of it anyway !)

 

Have you got a rough time scale for your trip ?.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Tam & Di]

Another question - I know this would depend on various factors, but can anyone give a general indication on the costs for hiring a pilot to cross the Channel (I imagine Thames - Calais is the most economical route or are there other things to consider?) I know most people are looking to bring cheaper Continental boats across to the UK after buying them so we just need to figure out on our budget if it's madness to buy in the UK and go the other way, especially if we ultimately intend to come back (although who knows what happens...). Trouble is, we really need to be in the UK this winter.

 

Again, though CWDF is a brilliant font of knowledge, you might find more relevant specific information of this type on the DBA forum. There are many people on there who do pilot craft across. The website will also tell you all the safety equipment you must have on board for such a crossing, as you are crossing at 90 degrees with some ferocious shipping and have to behave accordingly. You can't just step overboard in a pair of waders and walk to the bank ;-)

 

Tam

[the grinch]

Rotherham / Rotterdam. What's to choose between them?

 

I suppose they speak better English in one of them.

probably the latter!

are you going to hop along the coast before crossing? as its a long trip from the K&A to France I certainly wouldn't want to be out there for 6, 7 or more hours in 1 go. I'd more inclined to go east towards the Thames and out from there overnighting in Margate or Ramsgate

[Emma Giffard]

Thanks all, I'm going to spend a fortune now on Amazon buying all the recommended reading. Timescale is to buy the boat hopefully July or earlier but we're also aware that it could take longer to find something suitable. Then spend all autumn and winter familiarising ourselves with handling, learning the rules, getting any certification we need and getting any equipment we might need. Plan to leave in spring for the continental canals. I will join the DBA, been meaning to anyhow - my dad was a keen member and reader of Blue Flag.

As far as route planning, on the face of it the Canal du Midi et al sounds more appealing than Rotherham but I'm willing to be convinced

Another question re air draft - I understand that the K&A is 2.4m but someone told me that there are bridges in London that have less clearance than that - can anyone elaborate on that?

Thank you all so much for your help