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GRP cruiser or narrowboat ?


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3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

It has been re-engined and it looks like a heat exchanger cooling system. That makes things far simpler winterization wise. However, it does have a raw canal water circuit and a wet exhaust by the looks of it. Winterization of the engine is really just ensure the antifreeze in the engine is up to strength and in life. Turn off the sea (raw water) inlet, remove the raw water pump impeller, and drain the heat exchanger CORE (not the antifreezed water around the core). Ensure the batteries are fully charged and change the engine oil and filter plus any fuel filters.

 

I think the hydraulic pump looks like a vane pump to me so not the most efficient but fairly robust. It has a remote hydraulic tank so that is good, originally it was probably on the back of the engine with the pump inside it. It seems to have a hydraulic filter and that will need changing every few years.

 

Be aware that the hull stringers were often formed of paper rope that was glassed over so be wary of trying to screw into them. Much better glassing wood to the hull where you may need fixings. The decks at this time often had balsa wood cores sandwiched between two layers of GRP. If water gets in it rots and the deck becomes much more flexible and springy. This may not be easy to resolve.

 

If a surveyor starts on about osmosis my advice would be not to worry overmuch. Those hulls are extremely heavily laid up so can stand a lot of osmosis in inland use. Try to get  a look at any  and post some photos here.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have a read up about the above. I do plan to live on this so would that make much of a differencewith the water taps,tanks etc. I may not have a marina mooring either but fingers crossed when I go to view, and made a decision, I should have more of a safe location other than just on a private mooring. I will also be mainly stationed like a floaty flat as will be working from.office and home. So I will not be a long distance cruiser just yet. 

When I have been looking at narrow oats, I want to add the water system that comes from the canal so I don't have to do much moving or any at all moving for water every couple of weeks. Not sure if this system would fit this type of boat. I will also be asking that firms directly about the filter system and what their limits are.

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1 minute ago, Ascott83 said:

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have a read up about the above. I do plan to live on this so would that make much of a differencewith the water taps,tanks etc. I may not have a marina mooring either but fingers crossed when I go to view, and made a decision, I should have more of a safe location other than just on a private mooring. I will also be mainly stationed like a floaty flat as will be working from.office and home. So I will not be a long distance cruiser just yet. 

When I have been looking at narrow oats, I want to add the water system that comes from the canal so I don't have to do much moving or any at all moving for water every couple of weeks. Not sure if this system would fit this type of boat. I will also be asking that firms directly about the filter system and what their limits are.

 

I can't see anything that would stop you fitting what you want, but you may have to learn to fit wooden battens to the hull and glass them in place to get a fixing. It is not hard but can be a bit messy. It is all about space and if you want to sterilize the water probably battery capacity and the ability to recharge it fully at least every week. In that respect it will not be any different from a steel oat except it will be far easier to drill the hull for the water intake and so on. Always fit such inlets on a wooden pad that you glass in once it is all tight.

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34 minutes ago, Ascott83 said:

I want to add the water system that comes from the canal so I don't have to do much moving or any at all moving for water every couple of weeks.

 

 

Are you wanting to use canal water for drinking, showering, pot-washing etc ?

 

If so - Not a good idea. There are a lot of nasties in canal water, including, but not limited to Leprospirosis (which whilst no common does affect a few people every year, and can kill.)

 

Leptospirosis (Weil's disease) - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

 

There is also quite often quite a high concentraion of heavy metals (mercury etc) lying in the mud from the 'old industrial days of canal use', and these days a quite high level of hydrocarbons (diesel etc) which filters cannot remove.

 

The tank on board is too small for a liveboard so you would be better spending money on having a larger storage system installed, rather than trying to purify the dirty canal water.

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If you search, “watermaker ybw” you will get many links to posts on Yachting and Boating World.  People asking, recommendations, and experience of water makers in use.

 

There they are desalinating fairly clean seawater.  The canal water contains a lot of sediment, this will clog up your prefilters quickly.  The RO membrane needs clearing with fresh water every so often, and you will need to test your filtered water for purity.  The watermaker uses a powerful pump, which will take a lot from your batteries, so the note above about the size of your battery bank, and charging them is pertinent.

 

Expect to pay around £5-6,000 for an RO unit.  Or, as suggested, fit a bigger water tank.

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34 minutes ago, Peanut said:

If you search, “watermaker ybw” you will get many links to posts on Yachting and Boating World.  People asking, recommendations, and experience of water makers in use.

 

There they are desalinating fairly clean seawater.  The canal water contains a lot of sediment, this will clog up your prefilters quickly.  The RO membrane needs clearing with fresh water every so often, and you will need to test your filtered water for purity.  The watermaker uses a powerful pump, which will take a lot from your batteries, so the note above about the size of your battery bank, and charging them is pertinent.

 

Expect to pay around £5-6,000 for an RO unit.  Or, as suggested, fit a bigger water tank.

 

 

I was (maybe incorrectly) thinking the OP was just thinking about using a simple water filter attached 'in line' before the tap, I could not think how someone would spend (probably) 25+% of their budget on a watermaker, when looking at the bottom end of the market.

 

I think for a 54 year old GRP boat it is considerably overpriced at £23,000

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think for a 54 year old GRP boat it is considerably overpriced at £23,000

Edited just now by Alan de Enfield

Perhaps, but if in good condition its rarity increases what potential buyers will be willing to spend.

 

A well laid-up GRP boat of that vintage could well be structurally in very good condition. A steel hull however may be very thin and may well have already been over-plated, an issue that the owner of a grp boat will never face, along with the regular dry-docking, preparation and blacking costs.

 

What condition could a steel narrowboat be expected to be in which carried an asking price of £23,000, as that's the choice that the OP faces?

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27 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

along with the regular dry-docking, preparation and blacking costs.

 

A GRP owner still has these costs - the 'marine life' attaching itself to a GRP (can) boat is still quite prodigeous, there were huge problems with zebra mussels in one marina I was in, boats were coming out with several inches thickness of them over the full hull, prop and shaft.

 

They can do huge damage to the gel coat and once the gel coat is damaged the water is wicked-in along the fibre glass strands.

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

A GRP owner still has these costs - the 'marine life' attaching itself to a GRP (cansl) boat is still quite prodigeous, there were husge problems with zebra mussels in one marina I was in, boats were coming out with several inches thickness of them over the full hull, prop and shaft.

 

They can do huge damage to the gel coat and once the gel coat is damaged the watr is wicked-in along the fibre glass strands.

My 25 years of experience with GRP boats, both fresh and salt water, I have never used antifouling paint and have never seen a Zebra Mussel. The internet tells me that they can be a problem in some UK waters, but nowhere have I been able to find mention of catastrophic gelcoat damage or water wicking along GRP fibres as a result of their presence.

 

Keeping the, usually 'v' profile hull of a grp cruiser clean is usually matter of a stiff, long handled brush, sometimes using something buoyant to supply the upward thrust necessary to remove river slime and light growth. This would also remove young mussels should they be a local problem.

 

Barnacles are a problem on sea boats, but not on fresh water vessels, however, it's much easier to scrub off cruisers on tidal waters of course.

 

I'm certainly not saying that Zebra Mussels are not a problem in some places, but their presence is not a reason to avoid GRP hulls.

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5 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

My 25 years of experience with GRP boats, both fresh and salt water,

 

We have had GRP boats on both fresh and salt water for 40 years and have always needed to keep then anti-fouled (except the trailer boats that come out after every use).

It is not just mussels (River Trent) but green slimy weed growing into the GRP Gel coat.

 

We currently still have 2 GRP boats and as of the last couple of years they ar now both on sea water / brackish waters.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

We have had GRP boats on both fresh and salt water for 40 years and have always needed to keep then anti-fouled (except the trailer boats that come out after every use).

It is not just mussels (River Trent) but green slimy weed growing into the GRP Gel coat.

 

We currently still have 2 GRP boats and as of the last couple of years they ar now both on sea water / brackish waters.

Nothing works like TBT used to, not that I'm suggesting going back to poisoning the environment. That's why we deliberately don't antifoul, preferring the more ecologically sensitive strategy of scrubbing off once each year. 

 

Why would you feel the need to antifoul a fresh water GRP vessel when you wouldn't do so to a steel narrowboat?

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15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Bitumin blacking does a pretty good job of keeping growth down.

Actually, once fully cured, bitumen is advertised as being harmless to plant and aquatic life, so presumably is about as good in terms of antifouling properties as bare grp

 

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2 hours ago, Peanut said:

If you search, “watermaker ybw” you will get many links to posts on Yachting and Boating World.  People asking, recommendations, and experience of water makers in use.

 

There they are desalinating fairly clean seawater.  The canal water contains a lot of sediment, this will clog up your prefilters quickly.  The RO membrane needs clearing with fresh water every so often, and you will need to test your filtered water for purity.  The watermaker uses a powerful pump, which will take a lot from your batteries, so the note above about the size of your battery bank, and charging them is pertinent.

 

Expect to pay around £5-6,000 for an RO unit.  Or, as suggested, fit a bigger water tank.

Just top up every two weeks from a tap, simpler, cheaper, and really not much bother.

  • Greenie 1
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4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Just top up every two weeks from a tap, simpler, cheaper, and really not much bother.

There seams to be a phobia with some boaters that they will not drink tap water and buy bottles of drinking water whilst on the boat. Something which I’ve always found strange, considering it’s just branched off household supplies in most cases.

  • Greenie 1
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A good compromise, is to have one rigid tank with a good access hatch for scrubbing clean, to supply a kitchen tap for drinking and cooking and then as much volume of flexible bladder tankage, squeezed into more awkward spaces for washing up and showering etc. Even in our 30ft cruiser we had a total water capacity of half a tonne, mostly under the 'V' berth in the bow cabin.

 

The OPs proposed purchase is much bigger so he should easily be able to carry enough water for two weeks supply, even for two if they are frugal.

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10 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

A good compromise, is to have one rigid tank with a good access hatch for scrubbing clean, to supply a kitchen tap for drinking and cooking and then as much volume of flexible bladder tankage, squeezed into more awkward spaces for washing up and showering etc. Even in our 30ft cruiser we had a total water capacity of half a tonne, mostly under the 'V' berth in the bow cabin.

 

The OPs proposed purchase is much bigger so he should easily be able to carry enough water for two weeks supply, even for two if they are frugal.

 

 

Agreed - in our 23 foor GRP cruiser (Failrline) we has 2 flexible bladders (on in each locker leading into the V of the bow. From memory about 150 litres each.

 

Our last Steel NB had a 1000 litre tank in the bow.

 

The OP has said he does not want to move for water every 2 weeks so is looking for a permanent / continuous supply.

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Hi all. Here is the water filter system I'm looking at. https://waterfreedom.co.uk/ . I mainly want my boat to live on staticly until my holidays come round as I will still need to work at home and office. Not many residential moorings close to peterborough are available so marina will not be on the cards for me so having taps close by with a small size water tank would not worry me if I had this water filter system in place depending how much they cost compared vs diesel and time is something I still need to consider. Your all so helpful ☺️ the reviews are pretty reassuring. 

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Looking at the filter change frequency and cost it looks like in excess of £400 a year and maybe three times that or more if you count the filters in the diagram. They also say that if you don't change the hydrocarbon and heavy metal filters when needed they stop removing those contaminates. The change period for those seem to be annually but having seen the results of fuel and dirty bilge contamination on canals and rivers I could see the hydrocarbon one failing sooner. I am less concerned about the electricity consumption but note that it requires an inverter to be in use for 12 or 24 volts systems. I suspect that if I was to use such a system all my drinking water would be from a refillable 5 gallon water container filled from a tap.

 

Remind me, where do many of us think the liquid from "composting" toilets gets disposed of.

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7 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Looking at the filter change frequency and cost it looks like in excess of £400 a year and maybe three times that or more if you count the filters in the diagram. They also say that if you don't change the hydrocarbon and heavy metal filters when needed they stop removing those contaminates. The change period for those seem to be annually but having seen the results of fuel and dirty bilge contamination on canals and rivers I could see the hydrocarbon one failing sooner. I am less concerned about the electricity consumption but note that it requires an inverter to be in use for 12 or 24 volts systems. I suspect that if I was to use such a system all my drinking water would be from a refillable 5 gallon water container filled from a tap.

 

Remind me, where do many of us think the liquid from "composting" toilets gets disposed of.

I'm waiting to speak with them after this bank holiday to get a better idea of the costs from them directly  so I will keep you posted. I will be based on the nene if that makes much of a difference for my filters 🙃  so hopefully they have more Info on that for me.

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26 minutes ago, Ascott83 said:

Hi all. Here is the water filter system I'm looking at. https://waterfreedom.co.uk/ . I mainly want my boat to live on staticly until my holidays come round as I will still need to work at home and office. Not many residential moorings close to peterborough are available so marina will not be on the cards for me so having taps close by with a small size water tank would not worry me if I had this water filter system in place depending how much they cost compared vs diesel and time is something I still need to consider. Your all so helpful ☺️ the reviews are pretty reassuring. 

I once added a ceramic water filter to the supply to our galley cold water tap and although for a number of days the flow rate reduction was bearable, it didn't take many weeks for it to reduce to a frustrating level. I should add that it was filtering clean, mains, tap water that had simply been stored in a regularly cleaned plastic tank and yet it still clogged unacceptably quickly. Being ceramic, the filtering element could be scrubbed clean which did help, but it did not return to its 'as new' flow rate and its performance degraded quite quickly. 

 

My concern is, that the suppliers of water filters make claims that the product struggles to deliver in real life situations.

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4 minutes ago, Ascott83 said:

I'm waiting to speak with them after this bank holiday to get a better idea of the costs from them directly  so I will keep you posted. I will be based on the nene if that makes much of a difference for my filters 🙃  so hopefully they have more Info on that for me.

At least it is a flowing river so any spilt hydrocarbons should flow past rather than hang about, and there will probably be less suspended fine particles than in a canal.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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Looking at the reviewers and their moorings, all seam London CC’ers or more likely C’moorer’s, trying to to live a bricks & mortar house life on a boat. 
 Alan the reviewer has his own Youtube channel, total waste of time. So If he is anything to go by I wouldn’t trust the reviews.

Edited by PD1964
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