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GRP cruiser or narrowboat ?


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Hello to anyone viewing this post.

 

This is my first post and question(s) apart from introducing myself in the relevant thread. I've been reading various threads on here and so thought I'd seek your views and experience on the following matter. I know there have been comments/ threads on the relative merits of GRP or steel - my post is merely to ask what you'd do in my shoes. I'm not expecting you to make my mind up for me - only I can do that but any comments and a viewpoint I hadn't thought of will hopefully help me come to a decision.

 

My quandary is whether to buy a GRP cruiser or a steel narrowboat.

 

Some facts for you.

 

My maximum budget is £15,000.

 

I don't want to buy a boat longer than 30 feet long due to costs of moorings, licence etc.

 

I wish to keep it on the Kennet and Avon and have started the process of seeking a mooring.

 

I want a diesel engine - I don't want the hassle of obtaining petrol. I would also prefer shaft drive to a z drive. Not sure why and if anyone wishes to extol the virtues of a z drive, please feel free. I know that limits my choice re. GRP cruisers but they are out there.

 

I realise for that amount a narrowboat would be fairly old and very probably would require some amount of work doing to it even if it's only blacking and replacing anodes to begin with. It would also possibly mean buying a narrowboat of 30 feet long or smaller which isn't a problem to me. Of course any GRP cruiser I may consider would also be of an age and could need work - I accept that.

 

I also know I can buy a GRP cruiser in fairly decent condition (judging by pics. on the internet I grant you) for £7,000 tops which leaves me with plenty to spare budget wise. The size I've been looking at is 22 feet to 25 feet - the marques being Freeman, Dawncraft etc.

 

Having spoken to someone recently, they told me a GRP cruiser should be lifted out every winter, one reason being to prevent any damage by ice. I've also read they need to "dry out". Is it really necessary/prudent to lift them out every single winter ? To any GRP owners here, do you lift yours out every winter ? I ask because I quite fancied the thought of spending time cruising on those cold, frosty but sunny days we get in winter. This would of course mean needing a boatyard that has facitlies ashore. Are there that many along the K and A ?

 

So what would you go for wearing my size 9's ? If there are any people here who have owned both, I'd greatly appreciate your comments but will appreciate any comments made by anyone.

 

Sorry for the long winded post.

 

Gareth

 

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Given all you have said I would say GRP.

 

Your budget should get you a very nice Freeman (nice little boats) and have money left for all the running costs. That would be my choice in that price bracket.

 

I don't believe it's a requirement to actually lift GRP boat out to protect them in the winter, if it was I think you would struggle to find somewhere to do it as places would be overwhelmed by demand.

 

Loads of boats stay in the water and come to no harm whatsoever.

 

And yes welcome to the forum.

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As martin said but be aware of the danger of ice and don't go for an online mooring as winter boaters could do a lot of damage with sheets of ice if they're passing you .

Some marinas have organised lift out and lift in days for winter storage.

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I've owned both ?

 

Firstly what do you want the boat for ? (liveaboard, cruising, holidays, weekends)

You need to identify in your own mind what is a 'must' and what is a 'wish'

 

People do live on 25 foot 'plastic' boats and they do live on 30 foot 'sewer tubes'

Plastic boats tend to have very poor insulation (always exceptions of course), you can get them 'tosatie warm' but within seconds of turning down/off the heating the are freezing.

 

I have recently sold a 30 foot steel NB to a couple who had been trying to live on a 25 foot plastic cruiser, they said how much better the layout and usable room' was on the NB

 

With regard to lfting out for the winter, this is generally thought to be more applicable to older boats that may be suffering from Osmosis (the 'rust' equivalent of plastic boats), giving them the chance to dry out for a few months.

 

Osmosis - do a google search :

 

Osmosis is caused by the incorrect mixing of the resins used to make fibreglass. It results in a reaction that produces acetic acid. This forms pockets that expand, creating bubbles with a very weak film that is easliy pierced.

If you poke a hole in an osmosis bubble, it smells like vinegar - acetic acid - try it.

You need to root out all the weak bits, thoroughly dry them, and repair them to gain full strength again.

Eventually, osmosis can cause a boat to take on water as the bubbles join up and create a "channel" from the outside to the inside. This will first be seen by "damp" patches on the inside of the hull.

The first signs are small marks on the outer hull, little more than "stipples". A bad case will show large bubbles that are easy to push in and out by hand, probably breakign them - they go very brittle. Even these are not the end of the world, they can be repaired but its a dry-dock job.

 

An osmosis question on the YBW forum

 

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?152584-Osmosis-when-to-worry-about-it

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Freeman boats were built very solidly, but most - certainly in the narrow beam were / are petrol. The broader boats sometimes have been converted to diesel but command much higher prices.

 

Dawncraft were not built so well, but the few I've seen have outboards - you get the worst of Z-drive and petrol in one package!

 

Looking at both boats shape the Freeman is very much a day boat with wide deck and a canvas cover for the helm position. I get the impression that a Dawncraft made better use of internal space and the driving position may have a lot less canvas.

 

Z-drives cost a lot to maintain and are likely to be in indifferent / poor condition for a boat that old. Freemans tend to be shaft driven.

 

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Biggest decision maker for me when I was in your position was heating, I want to be able to boat in the winter and for that you really need a wood/coal fire and while there are some cruisers with these they're few and far between and dubiously safe (to judge by some of the burn marks I've seen). There is the option of a diesel or gas powered heater on a cruiser but usually these are on the top end ones, however, £15k is easily enough to get something very nice.

I would have thought you could pick up a 28-30 foot narrowboat (probably a Springer) in decent nick for about £10k that's what I did in the end means I can use it all through the winter.

K

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Hi Gareth, I kept my boat in a yard with a slip, bought a strong trailer and run an old 90 landrover. Saved money with trailer storage which includes use of the slip rather than a mooring and an explorer license where you only pay for the days when the boat is in the water. The boat was out the water unless being used. This works for me. ( can be a chore slipping the boat every time ). On an EA controlled river mooring for the summer this year so can still run on an explorer for when i venture onto other rivers / canals. will go back to trailer storage in the winter. Cycle a lot now to save money on diesel though (landrover 25mpg). Boat is 3mm steel, vee hull. Kieron

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You could buy a 30' steel NB within that budget easily. Anything that small is in very low demand these days, pay no attention to prices, you can drive a very hard bargain as there is little competition. Brokers know this but private sellers don't.

 

You could buy a grp cruiser but I wouldn't, not for canal use. But if you fancied a Freeman or Seamaster, say, avoid anything from the early to mid 1970's as the quality of boats in that era is variable to say the least.

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There's a wee little narrow boat for sale here at Braunston marina, named Rosie asking £10K. I know it needs a paint job, but they moved it under it's own power from one end of the marina to the other, so the engine works to some extent. Have no idea what kind of condition it's in on the inside. Dave says she is between 25 - 30 ft.

 

I know nothing about boats, but if I was looking at a leisure boat I wanted to use in the winter months, I'd go for a steel hull rather than plastic. I'd just be nervous about how it would manage in a frozen canal/marina

 

Note** I have No connection with the sale of this boat other than would love to see her sold as her "new mooring spot" makes it very tight for us to get in and out of the marina.

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We lived on our 40ft X 12ft GRP river cruiser for 10 years, for the last 4 years we have lived on our 60ft NB.

We were never cold, it was not damp and was built in 1981 but did not have Osmosis. I never knew anyone who had it and we had many boating freinds where we were on the Broads likewise the horror stories about Osmosis are overstated, the reality is any boat with it will outlast its owner. Also Osmosis is not caused by poorly mixed resin but is due to bad laying up leading to voids and water enters on a molecular level (Osmosis) it is unlikely in the extreme that Osmosis blisters would form chains which connected up and lead to water being able to penetrate right through the hull.

On the Broads plenty of GRP boats have SF fires with no scorching, we had a 8 kw drip feed Glembring heater flued through the roof, you just need to instal correctly.

GRP boats do not need to come out in the winter, do not need to dry out and do not fall apart at the sight of ice.

If you want a GRP boat get one, simple as that.

Phil

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We lived on our 40ft X 12ft GRP river cruiser for 10 years, for the last 4 years we have lived on our 60ft NB.

We were never cold, it was not damp and was built in 1981 but did not have Osmosis. I never knew anyone who had it and we had many boating freinds where we were on the Broads likewise the horror stories about Osmosis are overstated, the reality is any boat with it will outlast its owner. Also Osmosis is not caused by poorly mixed resin but is due to bad laying up leading to voids and water enters on a molecular level (Osmosis) it is unlikely in the extreme that Osmosis blisters would form chains which connected up and lead to water being able to penetrate right through the hull.

On the Broads plenty of GRP boats have SF fires with no scorching, we had a 8 kw drip feed Glembring heater flued through the roof, you just need to instal correctly.

GRP boats do not need to come out in the winter, do not need to dry out and do not fall apart at the sight of ice.

If you want a GRP boat get one, simple as that.

Phil

Greenie..

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A big thank you to all of you for taking the time and trouble to respond.

 

I've read all the replies but will be reading them again a few more times before the weekend is over. It's certainly given me food for thought.

 

In response to Alan de Enfield's reply (and thank you for the info. re. osmosis) - I would be using the boat at weekends and when I have a weeks holiday or 2 off work. I will be mostly single handed too which I forgot to say in my original post. Not sure if that would have any bearing on the issue or not ?

 

To bOatman who replied.....interesting comment because it is online moorings I've been researching on the K and A.

 

Many thanks again, it's much appreciated.

 

Gareth

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If I were in your shoes I,d probably look at a highbridge which is a 30 ft narrow grp boat it has all the benefits of both and a really good one should cost you around 12000 leaving you plenty of change for any little changes or repairs you may want to carry out they also came with booth diesel inboard or petrol outboard but I would ,nt be put off by the petrol outboard as a modern four stroke Japanese engine will return you almost as many litres per hour as an old diesel with the added advantage of near silent running as apposed to the tooth rattling conversation killing noise of a diesel inboard remember that on a barge it's under the rear deck outside of the cab but most cruisers it's inside under the floor and does tend to make a lot of noise all the best with your search and don't be shy to ask any more questions better to get the answers before parting with your hard earned wedge

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I suggest you go and look at as many boats, both cruisers and narrow boats, as you possibly can and that way you will decide which is best for you and how you will use your boat.

 

There is no one size fits all solution.

 

We love our 25ft cruiser but that doesn't mean everyone will.

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We lived on our 40ft X 12ft GRP river cruiser for 10 years, for the last 4 years we have lived on our 60ft NB.

We were never cold, it was not damp and was built in 1981 but did not have Osmosis. I never knew anyone who had it and we had many boating freinds where we were on the Broads likewise the horror stories about Osmosis are overstated, the reality is any boat with it will outlast its owner. Also Osmosis is not caused by poorly mixed resin but is due to bad laying up leading to voids and water enters on a molecular level (Osmosis) it is unlikely in the extreme that Osmosis blisters would form chains which connected up and lead to water being able to penetrate right through the hull.

On the Broads plenty of GRP boats have SF fires with no scorching, we had a 8 kw drip feed Glembring heater flued through the roof, you just need to instal correctly.

GRP boats do not need to come out in the winter, do not need to dry out and do not fall apart at the sight of ice.

If you want a GRP boat get one, simple as that.

Phil

Nothing better than first had experience

 

Thanks for putting me correct Phil about the ice and cold - my only knowledge of GRP's is from back in NB and the ice freezes upwards of 3 feet thick, so not quite the same thing I guess clapping.gif

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We leave our boat in over winter (other than a yearly lift out of a few weeks in March usually for routine maintenance) and have had one particularly nasty winter where the ice in the marina was approaching 12 inches thick in the lake edges.

 

We had no problems with ice damage to the hull other than a scuff in the antifoul paint on the bow.

 

We have also taken out boat out when the ice has not been too thick with no ill effects.

 

Some people would have you believe that GRP boats are so fragile they will split in half at the first mention of ice or a scrape. The reality is they are much hardier than you would ever expect.

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My grp boat stays in the water all year round , I have actually taken it along the cut when it was frozen quite badly I had to meet a crane to move it from the land locked mon and Brecon were I bought it to sharpness so had no choice I was the first boat out and had to break through the ice to get the boat moving then smash through a mile or so of ice to meet my lift when I lifted it out I was expecting to see some serious damage ,but in reality there was not even a scratch in the paint I also stay on board as much if not more in winter as summer without ever freezing to death

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We have a 26ft Burland GRP, as we cant afford a narrowboat as yet.

 

If I had a choice, I would go for a small narrowboat for the following reasons :-

 

*Although we have a small camping heater we use when its cold, it does lose heat very quickly when its turned off. It can be cold at night early and late in the year.

*I personally find it more difficult to get on and off than a narrowboat, as its much higher.

*We have looked at smaller narrowboats, and even a 26ft narrowboat has much more useable space inside - not really an issue if its just you, but there are two of us and we are going to have to start bringing our two dogs with us as our son is moving out.

*Its a pain finding garages near the canal to top up with petrol (although there is a very useful phone app called Whatgas)

 

Having said that, we do enjoy our boating. Having a small lightweight boat means you dont have to bother finding winding holes, you can just flip it round from a rope on the towpath. We are going to pull it out of the water at the end of the season for antifouling, but it hasnt been out for the 5 years before we had it, and we dont have any leaks. Our boat was much much cheaper than your available budget, so you should be able to get a really good GRP for about half of that.

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Our cruiser is twinned skinned and keeps the heat very well. We have a 2kw Webasto which heats it well and even during the depths of winter we turn it off at night, we have the heater on a timer so that it is warm when we get up.

 

Again go and look at as many boats as possible to get an idea of what suits. Our cruiser has far more accommodation than a narrowboat of the same length although we have seen some which don't make good use of space at all .

 

You will find far more choice in layout with cruisers of the size you are looking at than narrowboats of the same size.

 

Enjoy your hunting.

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Thank you again to all who have posted, especially as you've probably had the same questions pop up on here frequently. I'm grateful for your patience.

 

I'm going to take Naughty Cal's advice and look at both GRP and narrowboats to see if either gives me a help in my decision making. I will also pop back in here to tell you of my decision (that could take a while) and post a picture etc. when I actually commit to buy.

 

Gareth

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  • 8 months later...

Hello Elizabeth.

 

I did get sorted thank you - I bought a G.R.P. boat mainly due to budgetary considerations. Petrol too, which I said in my original post I didn't want !

 

I have no regrets buying the boat but do wish it was diesel rather than petrol. That is purely down to the fact I'm unable to buy petrol other than from roadside garages.

 

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I will also add that this forum has got a huge amount of information/views on it from very experienced boat owners (G.R.P. and narrowboats)

 

Gareth

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Don't know if you've already got it, but there is a very useful phone app - Whatgas - that will bring up local petrol stations as you travel along, and you can see which bridge is nearest to the garage. We find it very useful when we are out and about. Then we mark the garage on our Nicholsons guide for the next time.

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