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Widebeam question


Bettie Boo

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Whilst that is true that some waterways were designed for wide beam boats my point as I'm sure you are well aware is that nowadays it seems to be the case that if a boat fits through a lock then it can be safely navigated along that waterway which I'm afraid isn't always the case either due to the original design of the waterway or due to maintenance issues.

 

Oh and for your information I'm well aware of wider waterways including navigating the Trent, Soar, Avon, Severn, Manchester Ship Canal, Weaver and more I can't remember at the moment....some of us do travel about on our boats and not just sit at a keyboard!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

However, Betty was asking about her hatches, not boat, and she now has a good round of answers to her specific question.

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Whilst that is true that some waterways were designed for wide beam boats my point as I'm sure you are well aware is that nowadays it seems to be the case that if a boat fits through a lock then it can be safely navigated along that waterway which I'm afraid isn't always the case either due to the original design of the waterway or due to maintenance issues.

Oh and for your information I'm well aware of wider waterways including navigating the Trent, Soar, Avon, Severn, Manchester Ship Canal, Weaver and more I can't remember at the moment....some of us do travel about on our boats and not just sit at a keyboard!

Cheers

Gareth

Indeed we do travel...and not just via our keyboards...the oft used repost from so called 'proper boaters'

 

I am aware of your point BTW. You however do not appear to have grasped mine...never mind....it's obviously a bit too complicated for you.

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We cruise all of the time with the side hatches open (10ft widebeam). Completely open when it's hot and dry, with perspex "windows" if it's cold/wet, massively improves the airyness and visibility inside the boat. We do a lot of hours and swinging doors haven't been a problem.

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Also, although we haven't done any locks yet, I'm envisioning some of them, although being labeled as "wide locks" really won't be much more than a foot or so clearance on each side and if the doors, were to swing open it in such scenario's it may cause damage.

I still don't know why you think the side doors are going to swing. If they're flat against the side of the boat, and the side of the boat slopes, then they'd have to defy gravity to do any swinging.

 

As I said before, there are good reasons for having the doors closed in locks -- but I don't think swinging is one of them. They're not going to swing while you're travelling along, either, so I wouldn't worry about having them open.

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Hi Blackrose / Julynian / Paul / Dean and anyone else out there with a WB who would know the answer to this.

 

I've been told, by someone with no more experience than me, (Dave) that I can't have the side hatch open when we are cruising. When asked why, he explained that, since the doors don't have hooks & latches to hold them open they could swing when going through bridges & tunnels and we could end up ripping them off.

 

Further along in the conversation I was told that I wouldn't be able to leave them open even when he did install the hooks & latches as our hatch is on the starboard side and if we have to move close to vegetation due to passing oncoming boats in narrow stretches (or I'm at the helm) it could cause some damage.

 

Do you guys cruise with your hatches open or closed? I only ask, because I've seen loads of skinny boats in the last couple of days cruising with their hatches wide open. We've yet to meet another WB so I have no idea what is normal.

 

Ta

 

B~

I often compromise and close the leading edge door on each side so the vegetation has nothing to grab.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

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I understand where BB is coming from (I think)

 

2 x 12 foot wide 'fat-boats - meet where the canal is 25 feet wide, they will both be forced into the edge - one against the towpath and one into the overhanging shubbery

 

2 x 7 foot wide 'thin boats' - meet where the canal is 25 feet wide, neither will both be forced into the edge - or into the overhanging shubbery.

 

On a 'fatty' Having the side hatch door open could well result in long branches sneaking into the boat, knocking things off shelves or even getting caught up in the hatch hinges and ripping them off.

 

Go with what Dave says - he's the man !!!

How do you think we get on on the Oxford of Coventry. My doors are always open and never had one swing yet, but I don't boat much. As also stated we don't know how much tumblehome BB's boat has,

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You however do not appear to have grasped mine...never mind....it's obviously a bit too complicated for you.

Ahhh the good old personal insult!

 

Well my point started off as a gentle jibe but like so many posts on here (and not all of them from me!) you seem to have taken offence at it. Well you will obviously have to reply to this post but I'm off to finish planning my summer trip which this year will include more wide waterways including around the north east.....please wave if we go past!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

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How do you think we get on on the Oxford of Coventry. My doors are always open and never had one swing yet, but I don't boat much. As also stated we don't know how much tumblehome BB's boat has,

 

I made no mention of the doors 'swinging'. my concern ( and the odd occurence on our NB) is that the door(s) can be hooked by overhanging branches, the branches can 'invade' the cabin, and / or get wedged behind the hatch door and could potentially twist / strain the hinge or even pull off the hatch door.

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I made no mention of the doors 'swinging'. my concern ( and the odd occurence on our NB) is that the door(s) can be hooked by overhanging branches, the branches can 'invade' the cabin, and / or get wedged behind the hatch door and could potentially twist / strain the hinge or even pull off the hatch door.

The point I was making was that all your points apply equally to Narrowboats on lots of canals, where you seem to feel they only apply to wide ones.

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Ahhh the good old personal insult!

Well my point started off as a gentle jibe but like so many posts on here (and not all of them from me!) you seem to have taken offence at it. Well you will obviously have to reply to this post but I'm off to finish planning my summer trip which this year will include more wide waterways including around the north east.....please wave if we go past!

Cheers

Gareth

Gentle jibe?

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However, Betty was asking about her hatches, not boat, and she now has a good round of answers to her specific question.

 

Loads of info matty and some of it very good - thank you :) some of it just people's opinions which is fine as well, gawd knows we all have them judge.gif

We cruise all of the time with the side hatches open (10ft widebeam). Completely open when it's hot and dry, with perspex "windows" if it's cold/wet, massively improves the airyness and visibility inside the boat. We do a lot of hours and swinging doors haven't been a problem.

 

grahame - thanks for responding, I know you cruise pretty much the same route's we plan to so very useful & helpful infocheers.gif

I often compromise and close the leading edge door on each side so the vegetation has nothing to grab.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Funny enough, when I told Dave I posted the question, he said if I found it that hot then this is what we could do as well :)

 

How do you think we get on on the Oxford of Coventry. My doors are always open and never had one swing yet, but I don't boat much. As also stated we don't know how much tumblehome BB's boat has,

I "think" I understand what "tumblehome" is; and if I've got it right, ours is as close to being vertical as you can get without being completely vertical. It has a wee slant, but nothing to write home about, if you know what I mean.unsure.png

 

 

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and info as to how you manage your WB hatch doors. For everyone else, as always it's entertaining to read your personal opinionsclapping.gif

Ahhh the good old personal insult!

 

Well my point started off as a gentle jibe but like so many posts on here (and not all of them from me!) you seem to have taken offence at it. Well you will obviously have to reply to this post but I'm off to finish planning my summer trip which this year will include more wide waterways including around the north east.....please wave if we go past!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

I actually took you first comment to be quite funny Gareth, sorry I didn't respond

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The point I was making was that all your points apply equally to Narrowboats on lots of canals, where you seem to feel they only apply to wide ones.

 

Indeed it applies to anyboat on a narrow canal (as I said - it has happened to me on my NB)

 

I was simply replying to BB who asked the question relative to her boat - a widebeam - as at that time there were loads of answers saying the doors will not swing closed, close the doors in locks, close the doors in tunnels but this question:-

 

I was told that I wouldn't be able to leave them open even when he did install the hooks & latches as our hatch is on the starboard side and if we have to move close to vegetation due to passing oncoming boats in narrow stretches (or I'm at the helm) it could cause some damage

 

had not been discussed or answered.

 

I would suggest, however, that the likelyhood of a WB being forced into the bushes is higher than a NB for any given part of the canal.

 

Late last year we followed a 4XL widebeam doing about 1 mph along the T&M, it had come out of Mercia and looked brand new - it reached all the way across from the towpath on one side and well into the reeds on the other - hopefully it wasnt going far as nothing would have got past it on the majority of the canal. We were eventually 'waved on' & squeezed past in a 'wide bit'.

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My problem is most of the "narrowboat" ones are pig ugly which I admit is a personal opinion and that they are being used on waterways that are unsuited to wide beam traffic.....just because a boat fits a lock does not mean that it can travel along that waterway. Pairs of narrowboats were used on a long line or cross straps for a reason.

 

Having watched two widebeams trying to pass each other on the southern GU which is wide by most canal standards I'm personally glad that most of them stay moored up.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

I actually tend to agree with you on this, the front of our boat reminds me of a Northern Pike. However, since I spend very little time looking at the front end of our boat, I really could care less.

 

For me, its how comfortable a home she makes for us & the layout and space ours has provides just that; a wonderfully comfortable home which we can change our neighbors and or scenery on a whim if we so choose. Life couldn't be better (well unless we meet up with one of those "holier than thou types" who sneer down their noses at us as we pass, in which case I end up feeling bad for them)

 

I "think" it was Alan Fincher who pointed out to me that the original canals were indeed built to accommodate wide beam boats which were the original canal boat (working boat) design; when I made a comment about narrow boats (the skinny ones) being the original design. So going along those lines, if we could find a way to get ride of all the skinny boats on the wide canals, us WB's would have all the space we need and it wouldn't be as congested either ninja.gif (Last sentence said Very much tongue in cheek)

 

ETA - two missing words and spelling

Edited by Bettie Boo
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I actually tend to agree with you on this, the front of our boat reminds me of a Northern Pike. However, since I spend very little time looking at the front end of our boat, I really could care less.

 

For me, its how comfortable a home she makes for us & the layout and space ours has provides just that; a wonderfully comfortable home which we can change our neighbors and or scenery on a whim if we so choose. Life couldn't be better (well unless we meet up with one of those "holier than thou types" who sneer down their noses at us as we pass, in which case I end up feeling bad for them)

 

I "think" it was Alan Fincher who pointed out to me that the original canals were indeed built to accommodate wide beam boats which were the original canal boat (working boat) design; when I made a comment about narrow boats (the skinny ones) being the original design. So going along those lines, if we could find a way to get ride of all the skinny boats on the wide canals, us WB's would have all the space we need and it wouldn't be as congested either ninja.gif (Last sentence said Very much tongue in cheek)

 

ETA - two missing words and spelling

And that is my feelings as well had a skinny boat and loved it but on our fat northern canals fat boats are best

 

Peter

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Most hatch doors are above the gunnel. The gunnel is normally the widest part. It's therefore quite rare for the hatch doors to be a width issue, unless they have a tendancy to swing by themselves...which they shouldnt?

 

We enjoy cruising with them open,and in summer they stay open permanently....even through locks, although they would certainly be a danger if they aren't flat against the boat sides.

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Gentle jibe?

Least there were no condescending "dear or dearie" involved smile.png (Emma B's favorite)

Most hatch doors are above the gunnel. The gunnel is normally the widest part. It's therefore quite rare for the hatch doors to be a width issue, unless they have a tendancy to swing by themselves...which they shouldnt?

 

We enjoy cruising with them open,and in summer they stay open permanently....even through locks, although they would certainly be a danger if they aren't flat against the boat sides.

Thanks Dean - we've talked about it again, and have agreed when he has installed the catches & latches I can leave them open other than locks & tunnels for all the above mentioned reasons :)

Edited by Bettie Boo
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I wonder of this was anything to do with that behemoth widebeam that lost both side doors in Blisworth tunnel.

 

Last week I swear we saw at least four brand new maximum length maximum beam widebeams come by our mooring. Those kinds of boats are almost always heading for Roydon marina, which seems to be the WB marina of choice for those who wish to commute into London.

 

I think you get problems because these boats are new and empty sailaways, sitting very high in the water, meaning they catch on the curved GU tunnels and bridges.

 

I know someone who did this journey in an underballasted new max length/width boat and he says it was a nightmare, the wind blows you around, you struggle to fit through tunnels. Especially if you consider that this might be the first journey you ever make on your boat and you have no boating experience. Now the boat is fitted out he doesn't have these problems.

Edited by Lady Muck
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I'd be a bit concerned about any side door or side hatch that wasn't heavy enough to prevent it flapping about in the breeze!

 

I can cruise with my side doors open if I want to, but I tend not to do that anymore after once catching a centre rope around the back of a side door on my old narrowboat coming into a lock. It bent the hinges and almost ripped the door off. That was 15 years ago but it's funny how that lesson stuck.


Unless you have no tumblehome to your cabin sides, your side doors are not going to swing anywhere.

 

Yes, I'd forgotten some boats have vertical cabin sides.


You should realise that wide beams are not designed to move anywhere...in fact it's a well known fact that they just stay moored up on the narrowest part of canal that can be found.........

Cheers

Gareth

 

I've done more waterways of this country on my 12ft widebeam than many people I know on narrowboats.

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I wonder of this was anything to do with that behemoth widebeam that lost both side doors in Blisworth tunnel.

This was indeed the boat Dave had in mind when suggested it wouldn't be a good idea for us to cruise with them open & used it as an example of what could happen if we did

 

Last week I swear we saw at least four brand new maximum length maximum beam brand new widebeams come by our mooring. Those kinds of boats are almost always heading for Roydon marina, which seems to be the WB marina of choice for those who wish to commute into London.

 

I think you get problems because these boats are new and empty sailaways, sitting very high in the water, meaning they catch on the curved GU tunnels and bridges.

This makes sense,

 

I know someone who did this journey in an underballasted new max length/width boat and he says it was a nightmare, the wind blows you around, you struggle to fit through tunnels. Especially if you consider that this might be the first journey you ever make on your boat and you have no boating experience. Now the boat is fitted out he doesn't have these problems.

Ours is actually a "skinny WB" only coming in at 10ft 6 - although Blisworth will be our first tunnel we are all fitted out and weigh about 30 ton now with all our "stuff" on board so sit pretty low. The wind, even the slightest breeze does tend to blow us around a bit, but Dave is getting the hang of managing it at the helm.

I'd be a bit concerned about any side door or side hatch that wasn't heavy enough to prevent it flapping about in the breeze!

 

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear. He isn't concerned about the breeze catching the doors, it's more them getting caught in overhanging branches when we have to cut close to the side.

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I understand where BB is coming from (I think)

 

2 x 12 foot wide 'fat-boats - meet where the canal is 25 feet wide, they will both be forced into the edge - one against the towpath and one into the overhanging shubbery

 

2 x 7 foot wide 'thin boats' - meet where the canal is 25 feet wide, neither will both be forced into the edge - or into the overhanging shubbery.

 

On a 'fatty' Having the side hatch door open could well result in long branches sneaking into the boat, knocking things off shelves or even getting caught up in the hatch hinges and ripping them off.

 

Go with what Dave says - he's the man !!!

 

That's another reason I keep them shut while cruising. It's not just when meeting another widebeam when one could be forced into the undergrowth. I generally

 

My problem is most of the "narrowboat" ones are pig ugly which I admit is a personal opinion and that they are being used on waterways that are unsuited to wide beam traffic.....just because a boat fits a lock does not mean that it can travel along that waterway. Pairs of narrowboats were used on a long line or cross straps for a reason.

 

Having watched two widebeams trying to pass each other on the southern GU which is wide by most canal standards I'm personally glad that most of them stay moored up.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

I didn't know this either until someone on the forum corrected my historical knowledge a few years ago, but the southern GU traditionally had 12ft wide beam boats plying their trade, whilst the Manchester, Bolton and Bury had the same. Many of the broad canals were designed for both wide and narrow boats.

 

Which canals have you cruised on your boat? I don't think the GU is really very wide by broadbeam canal standards.

 

If you think that the congestion we see today on the canals is caused by widebeams I'd have to disagree with that too. There are far more narrowboats congesting the system then widebeams, and far more narrowboats that stay moored up and never go anywhere.

 

As you suggest, pig ugly is in the eye of the beholder. If I saw your narrowboat I might think it's pig ugly too - or more likely I might think it's just boring.

 

Took this photo on my phone yesterday. Now that's what I call pig ugly!

CAM00027_zps5ed26bcb.jpg

 

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear. He isn't concerned about the breeze catching the doors, it's more them getting caught in overhanging branches when we have to cut close to the side.

 

Yes, that's a an issue in any boat if you leave the side hatches open.

Edited by blackrose
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My neighbours have household type double glazed windows which open outwards and upwards :rolleyes:

 

If another boat passes them too close it will break all of the windows if the are open.

 

Its an unpowered wide bean so not too serious as they don't go anywhere but if they wanted a boat to stop alongside it could be very detrimental.

 

Wide beans IMO are fundamentally ugly but as Blackrose says its in the eye of the beholder as is everything else.

 

And the only boat which should have a stern with corners is a dinghy :rolleyes:

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That's another reason I keep them shut while cruising. It's not just when meeting another widebeam when one could be forced into the undergrowth. I generally

 

 

 

I didn't know this either until someone on the forum corrected my historical knowledge a few years ago, but the southern GU traditionally had 12ft wide beam boats plying their trade, whilst the Manchester, Bolton and Bury had the same. Many of the broad canals were designed for both wide and narrow boats.

 

Which canals have you cruised on your boat? I don't think the GU is really very wide by broadbeam canal standards.

 

If you think that the congestion we see today on the canals is caused by widebeams I'd have to disagree with that too. There are far more narrowboats congesting the system then widebeams, and far more narrowboats that stay moored up and never go anywhere.

 

 

If you read one of my other posts I put a very rough list of what wider waterways I have been on...thought of a few more since then!

 

I also agree that the GU below Berko was classed as a wide waterway but I have also read of the problems caused when two wide boats met.....and that was when the hedges were trimmed and the canal dredged.....hence the majority of boats were pairs of narrowboats.

 

My point was more to do with wide boats on unsuitable waterways....although it may come as a shock to some on here I do realise that places like the Aire & Calder and Trent are suitable for wider boats....indeed I had great boat envy when moored next to a Lissen on the Severn last year. My other point about ugly was aimed at wide beam "narrowboats".....I would love a nice Tjalk but don't want to be limited to the wider waterways in the UK....but as you say it's very much a personal thing....like people it's a good job we don't all find the same things attractive.....now where's a single woman with a Tjalk who wants a stout hairy bloke....???

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Had three wide beams pass me today. Doing a flight as well. Had two narrowboats pass me too, they hit everyone that was moored :-(

 

That will be because as a wide-beam you are taking up far too much room when moored, so shouldn't be surprised if you get hit! :lol:

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