Jump to content

Hire boat fuel charges


Justin Smith

Featured Posts

If you rowed at exactly 90 deg to the direction of flow your speed over ground would be 1mph and you would end up 1/4 mile down stream.

Phil

Velocity at right-angles to the flow = 1mph: simultaneously, velocity in the direction of flow = 1mph; net direction of travel over the ground, 45 degrees to the flow; net speed (= velocity in the direction of net travel) = root(2) approximately 1.414 mph, so you'd travel 1/4 M across the stream, 1/4 M down stream, total distance over the ground: 1/4 x root(2), approx. 0.3535 miles, taking 15 minutes. (And you'd need to take care on arriving at the bank, to avoid being swept away by the current before you could tie up! wink.png)

 

To clarify, 'velocity' is speed in a given direction, thus if traveling due north, velocity in an east to west, or west to east, direction is nil, while in the south to north direction velocity = speed (and for completeness, in a north to south direction, velocity = minus speed).

 

If I remember my vector addition correctly...

 

R

 

Edited for typos

Edited by MyLady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

alpha craft at Brundall are the most expensive for diesel when hiring. But if you book direct through them next time u get free fuel. I normally hire spitfire of thunderbolt.

 

Few w

 

Are you sure about this ? I looked on the Alpha Craft website and it implied you had to pay extra for the fuel ("£125 fuel deposit"), and I asked Hoseasons and they said free fuel for direct bookers wasn`t the case. I`d have thought they`d be pretty annoyed if it was !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...

I have copied this post from a different thread, it`s more relevant on this one

"We were going to do this [buying cheaper diesel from an alternative supplier], there`s cheap diesel for sale at Wheaton Aston, but, after mooring up there to do so, discovered the fuel filler was padlocked shut......

I have to say I`ll be very interested to see what the hire company charge us for the diesel top up. The chap at Wheaton Aston said his zero tax diesel was 63p a litre and full tax £1.09. The hire company will surely be claiming some tax off as heating etc ? I`ll be quite upset if the hire company charge even 90p a litre, certainly £1."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Justin Smith said:

I have copied this post from a different thread, it`s more relevant on this one

"We were going to do this [buying cheaper diesel from an alternative supplier], there`s cheap diesel for sale at Wheaton Aston, but, after mooring up there to do so, discovered the fuel filler was padlocked shut......

I have to say I`ll be very interested to see what the hire company charge us for the diesel top up. The chap at Wheaton Aston said his zero tax diesel was 63p a litre and full tax £1.09. The hire company will surely be claiming some tax off as heating etc ? I`ll be quite upset if the hire company charge even 90p a litre, certainly £1."

I guess they will do the 60/40 split on about 80 to 90 p/l zero tax. I think the fuel boats in that area are around 75p and there are not many yards cheaper unless you have hired from Norbury Wharf, their diesel is normally within a couple of pence of Turners 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can we just confirm there is no legitimate reason for the fuel filler cap to be locked shut (e.g. "for tax purposes") ? As far as I understand it the boat or owner has to be part of a scheme declaring the % split, is that right ?

90p per litre would be 27p a litre more than Turners, not far off 50% more expensive. Bearing in mind the hire company must surely be buying the diesel cheaper than Turners are selling it that must equate to a 50% mark up. If they can get away with it in open competition fine, but forcing the customer to buy from them by padlocking the fuel filler is not open competition. I personally think it`s exploitation.

Edited by Justin Smith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

  Bearing in mind the hire company must surely be buying the diesel cheaper than Turners 

No chance on that, that is why Turners are the second cheapest on the system. The first time I came across locked fillers was when they started getting diesel getting nicked

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

No chance on that [the hire company selling diesel as cheap as Turners are selling it] , that is why Turners are the second cheapest on the system. The first time I came across locked fillers was when they started getting diesel getting nicked

I`m sure the hire company won`t be charging the same price as Turners ! The salient word in my post (when trying to estimate the hire companies margin) was the hire company must be buying diesel cheaper then Turners are selling it.

Being a bit of a cynic I do wonder what the main reason for the locked fuel cap on a hire boat is..... And, as I said, what they`d have answered had I phoned them to ask what  the combination was.

Edited by Justin Smith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

Can we just confirm there is no legitimate reason for the fuel filler cap to be locked shut (e.g. "for tax purposes") ? As far as I understand it the boat or owner has to be part of a scheme declaring the % split, is that right ? ...

How do you expect a typical hirer to be able to make the correct % split declaration?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

I`m sure the hire company won`t be charging the same price as Turners ! The salient word in my post (when trying to estimate the hire companies margin) was the hire company must be buying diesel cheaper then Turners are selling it.

Being a bit of a cynic I do wonder what the main reason for the locked fuel cap on a hire boat is..... And, as I said, what they`d have answered had I phoned them to ask what  the combination was.

Is it not in their Ts and cs  as part of the hire? The better companies include diesel as part of the hire so nothing is hidden. Boat hire is cheap so I suppose its a way of making income?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

Can we just confirm there is no legitimate reason for the fuel filler cap to be locked shut (e.g. "for tax purposes") ? As far as I understand it the boat or owner has to be part of a scheme declaring the % split, is that right ?

Surely with a hire boat the company is the owner and so entitled to declare the split.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But doesn't the declaration have to be made by the purchaser?  If the hirer is buying the fuel they have to be in a position to know the correct percentage - which they won't without either a more detailed knowledge of the boat or if the company has told them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems highly unlikely to me that a hire company would padlock its diesel fillers to prevent hirers from filling up elsewhere. It would n't occur to most hirers to fill up at all. 

I'm sure its more about addressing the risk of the boat being left unattended in a dodgy area and someone syphoning the fuel. 

I dare say that if you tried you could burn a tank of fuel on a two week trip. I ran out on a shared boat after 10 days. Luckily we had just cleared Harecastle tunnel!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few years ago when diesel prices shot up I saw more than one hire boat that failed to get back to base because it had run out of diesel.

Be thankful they don't have the same system as France where they work on 1 lt for every hour the engine runs and then sell it to you at 25% more than the garages charge 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

A few years ago when diesel prices shot up I saw more than one hire boat that failed to get back to base because it had run out of diesel.

Be thankful they don't have the same system as France where they work on 1 lt for every hour the engine runs and then sell it to you at 25% more than the garages charge 

Johny Foreigners rip off innitt.

Edited by mrsmelly
  • Horror 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

A few years ago when diesel prices shot up I saw more than one hire boat that failed to get back to base because it had run out of diesel.

Be thankful they don't have the same system as France where they work on 1 lt for every hour the engine runs and then sell it to you at 25% more than the garages charge 

That sounds like the hirer is 'onto a winner'.

There are not many engines that will run on 1 litre per hour, even with a 25% mark up that is only equivalent to 1.25 litres per hour.

My NB's reckoned to do about 1.5 litres per hour.

 

When we hired a 40 x14 cruiser from 'Le-Boat' they topped up the tank on arrival, and again when we returned, that gave an exact usage which we were charged for (at slightly above 'going rate')

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That sounds like the hirer is 'onto a winner'.

There are not many engines that will run on 1 litre per hour, even with a 25% mark up that is only equivalent to 1.25 litres per hour.

My NB's reckoned to do about 1.5 litres per hour.

 

When we hired a 40 x14 cruiser from 'Le-Boat' they topped up the tank on arrival, and again when we returned, that gave an exact usage which we were charged for (at slightly above 'going rate')

Sorry it was a few years back when we did the canal du midi for 2 weeks in a Penichette  and looking back it was FIVE not one litre/hour. Type of boat : Pénichettes Aft-Deck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You hire a car with a full tank of fuel. Return it with a full tank of fuel. If you don't the hire company fills up for you and charge inflated price per litre. On the Canals it's not so easy to top up prior to return, but it seems this company has taken away the option. It may well be in the agreement, but still unfair in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A bit of good news here. When we got back to the hire base (Viking boat hire, JD boats Gailey wharf) they only charged us 96p per litre. By my reckoning that's only a few pence more than Turner`s, so I had no problem paying it. It`s just a pity I didn`t know that price at the start of the hire ! The boat from Viking, Niord a 60 ft NB for two and a half of us, was pretty good actually. A few things went wrong but almost every hire boat we`ve ever had a few things go wrong so I didn`t hold that against them. It was well equipped, including with that holy of holies (for a hireboat) a reasonable number of hooks and shelves ! We used about 67 litres of fuel taking it easy doing about 73 miles (to Market Drayton and back * ) and with the heating on about 4 or 5 hours a day. We tried to make maximum use of the heat from the (gas, and therefore not chargeable) hob !

The negative is it just emphasises how much of a rip off was the £1.45 per litre that Alpha Craft charged us.......

* Question : how are you supposed to turn sharp left out of the Shroppie onto the Staffs and Worcs when you`ve just come out of a lock and are hard up against the side (so can`t get the rear to swing to the right) ? When it appeared to be impossible to get round we could only think to to reverse back in and then cheat by pushing the bows out.....

 

 

12 hours ago, Cheese said:

How do you expect a typical hirer to be able to make the correct % split declaration?

The seller of the fuel could tell them the normal split is 60/40 ?

Edited by Justin Smith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

A bit of good news here. When we got back to the hire base (Viking boat hire, JD boats Gailey wharf) they only charged us 96p per litre. By my reckoning that's only a few pence more than Turner`s, so I had no problem paying it. It`s just a pity I didn`t know that price at the start of the hire ! The boat from Viking, Niord a 60 ft NB for two and a half of us, was pretty good actually. A few things went wrong but almost every hire boat we`ve ever had a few things go wrong so I didn`t hold that against them. It was well equipped, including with that holy of holies (for a hireboat) a reasonable number of hooks and shelves ! We used about 67 litres of fuel taking it easy doing about 73 miles (to Market Drayton and back * ) and with the heating on about 4 or 5 hours a day. We tried to make maximum use of the heat from the (gas, and therefore not chargeable) hob !

The negative is it just emphasises how much of a rip off was the £1.45 per litre that Alpha Craft charged us.......

* Question : how are you supposed to turn sharp left out of the Shroppie onto the Staffs and Worcs when you`ve just come out of a lock and are hard up against the side (so can`t get the rear to swing to the right) ? When it appeared to be impossible to get round we could only think to to reverse back in and then cheat by pushing the bows out.....

 

 

The seller of the fuel could tell them the normal split is 60/40 ?

Take it really slowly and have someone on the bow with the long shaft just in case it is needed. It usually is not.

My boat is 70 feet plus the fenders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, frahkn said:

Take it really slowly and have someone on the bow with the long shaft just in case it is needed. It usually is not.

My boat is 70 feet plus the fenders.

But if a canal boat rotates about the mid point, and the right rear is hard up against the wall, how do you get the front to swing to the left ? I`m assuming there isn`t a slight northwards current up the S & W which would then get the bows started in the direction you want to go in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having just done the lock, you (or one of the crew) will be off the boat shutting the lock gate (or would have been off doing the lock) so one way is to give a cheeky shove of the bow to the left as they step onto the boat. Its not really cheating, its just a "thing" you can do if you want to help it round. But in any case, the junction is sufficiently big that there's enough water to still turn left after coming out of the lock straight until there's space to let the rear swing round. In a smaller boat its probably possible in one, but reversing is fine too - you don't need to send the boat going backwards, you could just use a bit of reverse to slow it down and tighten the turn. Don't forget that a narrowboat can turn tighter when accelerating, so starting slow then accelerating will do it.

But I know what you mean, the junction does seem set up to turn right!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do include fuel in the hire price and our fillers are all locked to prevent theft - it happens, particularly to hire boats and in the most unlikely places.

The key for the locking filler is on the boat key ring - vital if the boat is on an extended cruise.

"Don't forget that a narrowboat can turn tighter when accelerating, so starting slow then accelerating will do it." - nope, as speed picks up the rate of turn decreases.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

We do include fuel in the hire price and our fillers are all locked to prevent theft - it happens, particularly to hire boats and in the most unlikely places.

The key for the locking filler is on the boat key ring - vital if the boat is on an extended cruise.

"Don't forget that a narrowboat can turn tighter when accelerating, so starting slow then accelerating will do it." - nope, as speed picks up the rate of turn decreases.

Yep, don't take much notice of folks with the tiller hard over and water splashing everywhere, 'slowly does it' is the answer (particularly if you are a novice or you're in unknown waters).  If you are already going slowly you won't need reverse to slow down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.