Leisure battery problems

[annad]

Hi there,

 

We have recently been having problems with losing power on our batteries, so around 4 weeks ago, we have 4 new leisure batteries fitted. However the problem has continued. Our inverter has started beeping and the fridge is cutting off, so i think the batteries have lost power.

 

-We had the batteries fitted by experts, so I think they were fitted properly.

-We charge the batteries from the engine. And have been running the engine for at least an hour a day and sometimes up to 4 hours to attempt to recharge.

-We have only been running lights, fridge, tv (sporadically) and water. No charging/laptops etc.

-We only turn the inverter on when we need power from the sockets, which is around an hour a day.

-We have been reassured that they were top quality batteries

 

If anybody can help with advice as to why we are losing charge/not charging up, any advice would be appreciated, as we have no power at the moment. I am also worried that the £450 we spent on new batteries has gone to waste and that the batteries are now dead.

 

Thanks

[Naughty Cal]

You are not charging them anywhere near long enough.

 

If you can get them onto a shore power and a decent charger to get them fully recharged again.

 

If not they will die a very quick death and you have wasted your money getting new ones.

[Proper Job]

If your inverter is beeping and your fridge is cutting out, the batteries are virtually flat.

 

You're not putting enough in v's what you're taking out.

 

What battery monitoring equipment do you have? ie. volt meter, smartgauge, AH counter etc

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Count the number of amp hours each of your electic componants use. The New flat screen tv and fridges are greedy engine charging is slow and painfull if you are not criusing. Try to use fewer lights led type are better. run a genny to watch tv.

[Ex- Member]

Hi there,

 

We have recently been having problems with losing power on our batteries, so around 4 weeks ago, we have 4 new leisure batteries fitted. However the problem has continued. Our inverter has started beeping and the fridge is cutting off, so i think the batteries have lost power.

 

-We had the batteries fitted by experts, so I think they were fitted properly.

-We charge the batteries from the engine. And have been running the engine for at least an hour a day and sometimes up to 4 hours to attempt to recharge.

-We have only been running lights, fridge, tv (sporadically) and water. No charging/laptops etc.

-We only turn the inverter on when we need power from the sockets, which is around an hour a day.

-We have been reassured that they were top quality batteries

 

If anybody can help with advice as to why we are losing charge/not charging up, any advice would be appreciated, as we have no power at the moment. I am also worried that the £450 we spent on new batteries has gone to waste and that the batteries are now dead.

 

Thanks

 

Clearly you're using more energy than you're producing causing flat batteries. A lot of factors come in to play. Size of alternator/'s how their pullied up can also make a difference.

 

What type batteries BTW

 

You really need to consider some solar energy to maintain a decent charge in to your batteries, otherwise you'll be running an engine 2/3 hours a day.

[annad]

Thanks for the advice. I think battery monitoring is needed We don't have any at the moment. We thought we were being frugal with our energy consumption, but perhaps not enough!

 

What is the best cost effective power consumption monitor? Is it easily installed?

 

is it worth buying as generator? What sort of price. Or is solar power a good additional alternative?

 

I think we'll leave the inverter and fridge off for a week and blast the engine to hopefully get the power back.

[Richard10002]

NASA BM1 or BM2 gives voltage instantaneous Amps charging or discharging, and cumulative Ah in or out. It makes a stab at %age state of charge, but isn't very good. About £110 or so.

 

Smartguage shows voltage and state of charge, and most users seem to swear by it.

 

I've got the NASA BM2 which tells me what I need to know. If I had spare money, I might add a Smartguage.

 

I've got a Honda EU20i gennie, but they are expensive. I'd probably try a 2Kw Kipor generator if I was doing it again - I think they are around £500, versus over £1000 for a Honda.

 

I've got 100W of solar which tops up the batteries if I leave the boat for a few days, but is pretty much useless if I am on board. I'm tempted to get another 200W panel.

[Naughty Cal]

To have any hope of reviving these batteries you will need to turn things off and run your engine all day!!

 

a hour or so isnt going to cut it

[annad]

Thanks Richard! That's really useful!

[Proper Job]

Without some sort of monitoring, you've no chance of maintaining a half decent charging regime for your batteries and getting a reasonable life from them. They may well already be beyond redemption.

 

The Smartgauge is probably the easiest monitor to fit and will give you a percentage state of charge (SOC) of your domestic bank along with the domestic bank voltage and the starter bank voltage

 

Solar will definitely help, especially this time of year. 150 - 200 W minimum.

[nicknorman]

As a start and before you get a battery monitor (I would recommend the Smartgauge for your application) you could at the least put a multimeter onto the domestic batteries terminals whilst charging, to get an idea whether the charging system is working properly. As the others have said, the basic problem is that you are not putting back into the batteries what you are taking out. This is probably in part because you are not running the engine long enough, but possibly because the charging system is faulty or at least not optimal.

[bottle]

Assuming that you have a 'modern' engine of the, Beta,, Vetus, Isuzu type the pulleys should be of the right ratio.

 

When running your engine to charge the batteries it needs to be run at, at least 1,000 rpm not 'tick over'

 

Otherwise my advice, reasoning is the same as already given.

[Neil2]

£450 for four "top quality" batteries...? I doubt it.

 

But that isn't the problem. I'm increasingly of the view that if you expect to run a fridge most of the time you need to have some form of power generation in addition to the engine. Hire boats get away with it because they tend to be running for at least 7/8 hours a day, but most leisure users and liveaboards won't do this on a regular basis.

 

I'm a recent convert to solar power and I'm astonished what a difference even one 120w panel makes. That's the route I would take.

[frangar]

What sort of lighting do you have? Some of the older style filament lamps take a huge amount of power compared to modern LEDs and some boats seem to have a lot of downlighters fitted which soon add up to much more than a fridge.

 

I agree you need some sort of monitoring especially if you are off grid liveaboards.

 

Do you know what size the alternator is on the engine or failing that what sort of engine it is? Some older engines have very small alternators fitted that don't charge well at tickover.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Proper Job]

Just to give you a few pointers. A cheap multi meter can give you the battery voltage

 

For 'low maintenance' lesuire batteries voltages are:

 

Flat: 11.86v

25% SOC: 12.03v

50% SOC: 12.21v

75% SOC: 12.42v

100% SOC: 12.62v

 

These are for an ambient temperature of 10 deg C

 

You should be aiming to not go below 50% SOC, so anything less than 12.2v is bad news

 

The voltage reading need to be taken with the batteries at rest (not being charged or discharge).

[George94]

As we are approaching summer, the best cheapish option would be to buy 500 or 600 watts of solar panels from Navitron at 50p per watt, and a Tracer MPPT controller from Bimble. Also fit a Smartgauge. That is NOT an option.

 

See posts from people like Julynian and DeanS for personal experience re solar.

 

More generally, NickNorman and SmileyPete are very knowledgeable and can be relied on to give good advice.

 

ETA: Come the winter, buy a Kipor.

Edited April 24, 2014 by George94

[Proper Job]

£450 for four "top quality" batteries...? I doubt it.

 

 

 

I paid about that much for four T105's

 

I would regard them as top quality. Certainly better than your 'average' leisure battery

 

 

ETA: Come the winter, buy a Kipor.

 

And a decent multi stage charger

[George94]

And a decent multi stage charger

 

Absolutely.

[raymondh]

 

I paid about that much for four T105's

 

I would regard them as top quality. Certainly better than your 'average' leisure battery

 

And a decent multi stage charger

I paid £450 for 4 x Trojan T-127512v 150Ah FLA's from a golf cart dealer - keep away from the battery experts/marine dealers

Look at the industrial comercial outlets for lower prices

Ray

[Neil2]

 

I paid about that much for four T105's

 

I would regard them as top quality. Certainly better than your 'average' leisure battery

 

The T105 is 6v is it not? I assumed, maybe wrongly, the OP was talking about four 12v batteries.

 

 

I paid £450 for 4 x Trojan T-127512v 150Ah FLA's from a golf cart dealer.....................

That is a hell of a good price and I for one would certainly like to know which dealer you got those from.

[nicknorman]

The T105 is 6v is it not? I assumed, maybe wrongly, the OP was talking about four 12v batteries.

 

 

Yeabut twice the capacity, so 4 T105s in series - parallel = 4 12v batteries of similar physical size.

[frangar]

The T105 is 6v is it not? I assumed, maybe wrongly, the OP was talking about four 12v batteries.

 

 

 

That is a hell of a good price and I for one would certainly like to know which dealer you got those from.

 

Try here

 

http://www.tayna.co.uk/T-105-Trojan-Battery-Deep-Cycle-T105-P7253.html

 

Used them a lot...good service and price....if you order multiples they will do deals on carriage....if you like them on Facebook you also get a discount

 

 

Edited to add

 

Hmmm I misread your post T-1275 are £199 from tayna.....I've never found cheaper than them so I do wonder about four of them for £450.....was that including or excluding VAT? Tayna prices are all inc vat

 

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

Edited April 24, 2014 by frangar

[ditchcrawler]

Assuming that you have a 'modern' engine of the, Beta,, Vetus, Isuzu type the pulleys should be of the right ratio.

 

When running your engine to charge the batteries it needs to be run at, at least 1,000 rpm not 'tick over'

 

Otherwise my advice, reasoning is the same as already given.

And probably for 3 to 4 hrs EVERY day

[Proper Job]

The T105 is 6v is it not? I assumed, maybe wrongly, the OP was talking about four 12v batteries.

 

 

T015's are 6v but 225 Ah

 

Which when seriesed up together and parallelled gives 450 Ah at 12v - equivalent to 4, 12v x 110 Ah

 

A good sized domestic battery bank

[Neil2]

.............Hmm I misread your post T-1275 are £199 from tayna.....I've never found cheaper than them so I do wonder about four of them for £450.....was that including or excluding VAT? Tayna prices are all inc vat

 

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

Yes the T1275 is the real deal and I cannot believe you can get four of these batteries for that sort of money but I am very happy to be proved wrong and I am desperate to know where Ray got his, in fact I think we would all like to know.