Question for serious rivet counters

[archie57]

I believe it's the Argo about to be halved

[Tuscan]

I noticed this when we came through on Friday but didn't catch the name, definitely the planks looked new as if it was being re-bottomed.

[James Owen]

The boat in question is the Argo. It currently has/had a relatively new wooden bottom (ten years ago ???) which was poorly fitted and saw very little maintenance afterwards, hence the material (Iroko iirc?) seeming okay.

I believe R Farringdon is rebottoming it in steel as part of a process to, as archie said, halve it. A shame really, what was up until recently a presentable composite butty soon to be little more than a 'former ****' boat.

[Steve Priest]

Yes, it is Argo, it has a recent wooden bottom in opepe, but poorly fitted, so Roger is replacing it with steel. As far as I know it is for sale as is but with the demand for butties being what it is at the moment it would seem likely to be cut in half. It would be a shame, it's a really nice boat, but probably inevitable, I had my eyes on it for a while, but I bought a Dutch boat two years ago and I think three boats is probably enough!

 

However, if anyone would prefer a Northwich butty we still have Lupus at Brinklow

[alan_fincher]

It's not looking good for buttys, is it?

Argo & Lyra apparently at risk.

 

Several others appearing to generate no interest after a lot of months on the market - including Cygnus, Verbena/Vienna, one who's name escapes me right now (!) (& what happened to Argus?).

 

A shame, but I know I couldn't reasonably give one a proper home, and I guess the number of people who can is quite limited.

[Laurence Hogg]

If Argus gets cut so what? it will have evolved into possibly two boats, as long as some butty boats survive in use or in the museums then they are not extinct. How many "Stour lifters", "Hampton boats", Severn & CCCo horse boats, original Shroppie fly boats (Please exclude new builds like Saturn), 6 plank Runcorn boats, Midland Railway boats are left? in original nick there are none, but who cares and how many even know what those types looked like?

 

Today we hear "We have Joshua bows, Josha bows, or even Josher bows, fine, ask the owner the question "Oh nice which type of Josher are they based on? 100-1 on a blank face!

 

Or when someone with a nice looking low drafted tug tells you its based on those wonderful London tugs, smile and say "Oh nice, why isn't it 8ft wide?"

[alan_fincher]

If Argus gets cut so what? it will have evolved into possibly two boats, as long as some butty boats survive in use or in the museums then they are not extinct.

I assume you may mean "Argo" the boat on the slip, rather than "Argus" that I have not heard is under threat?

 

Well yours is a view of course, much the same as in the railway world where it is often argued that there are simply too many locomotives of a particular class rescued, whether they be Black Fives, 8 Freights, 9 Freights, or whatever.

 

There is undoubtedly an argument that for certain historic things that have survived so far against the odds, that there isn't now the people with the money, time or enthusiasm to preserve them all.

 

In a way it matters not so much to me how many of a particular butty type survive, as how the overall numbers, irrespective of type, continue to dwindle. The art of working a pair has not fully died out of course, but the number of people now able to do it well is hardly substantial, and as more of the craft are lost, then so to some extent will be people able to operate them in the proper manner.

 

But then I know I live in a pipe-dream world where I hope others will be able to preserve these things, but I know it would be bonkers for me to take one on myself! That much I admit.

 

Anyway, I walked back to Roger Farringdon's dock, and snapped a few pictures of what may soon be a very rare beast - a GU composite butty, still mostly with a wooden bottom. Sorry about the quality, but with the boat under the dock, and the morning sunlight as it was, this was the best I could manage, I'm afraid.

 

 

 

 

[Timleech]

I wonder what it was that had been done so badly with those opepe bottoms that wasn't worth putting right?

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

I wonder what it was that had been done so badly with those opepe bottoms that wasn't worth putting right?

I know little of such matters, but is it usual for adjacent planks to appear to be sawn to different thicknesses?

[Laurence Hogg]

I know little of such matters, but is it usual for adjacent planks to appear to be sawn to different thicknesses?

 

Very odd practice, when we put new bottom planks in "Neptune" at Joe Gilberts he insisted on the thickness matching to the bottom next to it. Its a fairly obvious thing to do as loaded if you caught on anything substantial you would start to pull at the plank.

[Timleech]

I know little of such matters, but is it usual for adjacent planks to appear to be sawn to different thicknesses?

 

No, but no big deal provided the leading edge of the thicker boards is properly faired off.

Perfectly normal to replace individual boards, which may be thicker than those remaining in place, and fair off the difference one way or another.

It does seem a bit odd that there seems to be some random variation in thickness on those visible, but the difference isn't great.

 

Tim

[Steilsteven]

Well I, for one, can't believe that people are still cutting historic boats in half. Pure selfish greed in my opinion.

 

 

Keith

[James Owen]

The planks when fitted were poorly selected and/or not trimmed properly. Hence if a bottom joint fell on a bolt hole, whether it be on a knee or chine angle, then that was that. A bit of oakum wrapped around the bolt and in it went.

Save for shaving a couple of inches off said plank(s) it apparently would have been okay. From what I can gather there were in excess of thirty such bolt holes which were doing very little to keep things together, add in zero preventative maintenance over several years...

[Rufford]

Thought I had one somewhere. Probably 1988 or thereabouts, blessed if I can remember where.

 

 

Derek

 

Thats my boat! Wow :-) Not seen that one. Thanks greatly. Tixall wide I presume? Do we have a rough date? I may well be able to tie it into the logbook.

 

Edited to say that it was taken on the Tuesday 10th / Wednesday the 11th of May 1988. Quite possibly the maiden voyage for the previous owner, the voyage being from Stoke Goulding to Warwick

 

Im guessing that the photo was taken on the junction? Im going off the rough cobble stones in the bottom right hand corner of the picture that would match up with the bottom of the bridge over the junction.

Logbook shows a journey from Little Haywood to Great Haywood to Coven Heath, so I would have thought the she would be pointing the other way. When I get chance I will upload the logbook. Unfortunately there are not too many personal remarks in the early entries but there are a few regarding weather and conditions etc latter on.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Rufford

[Rufford]

It's not looking good for buttys, is it?

 

Argo & Lyra apparently at risk.

 

Several others appearing to generate no interest after a lot of months on the market - including Cygnus, Verbena/Vienna, one who's name escapes me right now (!) (& what happened to Argus?).

 

A shame, but I know I couldn't reasonably give one a proper home, and I guess the number of people who can is quite limited.

 

If I can sell two boats this summer I could be tempted to take on Cygnus, she's a lovely butty. Do you think I could fit a bowling ally inside the hold? And a bar?

[Steilsteven]

 

If I can sell two boats this summer I could be tempted to take on Cygnus, she's a lovely butty. Do you think I could fit a bowling ally inside the hold? And a bar?

I believe Cygnus has found a buyer.

 

Keith

[Rufford]

Thank god for that, I really dont need another boat!

 

Lovely Butty tho :-)

[pete harrison]

Thank god for that, I really dont need another boat!

 

Lovely Butty tho :-)

I remember when CYGNUS was one of 'Caggy' Stevens rubbish boats, complete with its collapsed wooden cabin still in Willow Wren C.T.S. Ltd. livery. It was sold and restored in 1982.

[David Mack]

I remember when CYGNUS was one of 'Caggy' Stevens rubbish boats, complete with its collapsed wooden cabin still in Willow Wren C.T.S. Ltd. livery.

I first encountered Cygnus like that,roughly tied up on the offside at the bottom of Camp Hill in about 1974. A bit of a shock when my only previous knowledge was photos of her at the Stratford Canal reopening a decade earlier.

[alan_fincher]

I see comments from it's owner elsewhere tonight that Verbena/Vienna is no longer for sale, and is no longer on Apollo Duck.

 

Don't know more than that, though.

[FadeToScarlet]

I see comments from it's owner elsewhere tonight that Verbena/Vienna is no longer for sale, and is no longer on Apollo Duck.

 

Don't know more than that, though.

This means nothing to me.... Edited June 12, 2014 by FadeToScarlet

[David Mack]

This means nothing to me....

And by strange coincidence, the next track listed on FadeToScarlet's YouTube link is entitled "Fade to Grey"

[The Pipe]

Laurence Hogg, on 18 May 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

 

Or when someone with a nice looking low drafted tug tells you its based on those wonderful London tugs, smile and say "Oh nice, why isn't it 8ft wide?"

As the owner of one of these, the reason it's not 8ft wide is it will not fit in 7ft wide locks that should be a bit obvious even to you. The term "based" might give you an idea that I just liked the line of the original boat. As for a replica it is not, no steam engine. no wooden hull, not 8ft+ wide and 4ft+ draft.

[Laurence Hogg]

As a matter of interest what happened to the real wide tug "Antelope"? I remember seeing at Stoke Bruerne quite some years ago now but it seemed in good order and quite an attractive boat.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[The Pipe]

Laurence Hogg, on 08 Nov 2014 - 7:07 PM, said:

As a matter of interest what happened to the real wide tug "Antelope"? I remember seeing at Stoke Bruerne quite some years ago now but it seemed in good order and quite an attractive boat.

Unfortunatly it got burnt in the 90's (believed to be arson). I had some pictures of it on the bank and it is a different hull (front end certainly) from the pictures of the Antelope towing on the GU. Nobody seems to know what happened to Buffalo probably the same.