Newbie, mooring questions

[Nitrowing]

Good evening, I have bought a little 25' Dawncraft with the intention of staying on it while I work away from home - I've wasted thousands of pounds on hotels over the years!

Now, I have done quite a bit of reading but I don't know how this will work.

I have a mooring at Victoria Quays and when I initially talked to them, the idea was to spend about 2 nights a week aboard if I had to do some overtime but generally, I was going to commute the 70 miles from Cleethorpes. Unfortunately, I have not only done quite a bit of overtime but the boat has required a lot of work with changing the lights, insulating the floor, installing a new combination sink & hob etc

The owners of the marina have got really pissy with me about this (even though there are a couple of narrowboats who live aboard there) and I don't know where I stand. It's a non-residential marina but I'm not intending to live there just spend some nights - maximum 10 in a fortnight but usually 4 a week.

What gives?

[ditchcrawler]

Good evening, I have bought a little 25' Dawncraft with the intention of staying on it while I work away from home - I've wasted thousands of pounds on hotels over the years!

Now, I have done quite a bit of reading but I don't know how this will work.

I have a mooring at Victoria Quays and when I initially talked to them, the idea was to spend about 2 nights a week aboard if I had to do some overtime but generally, I was going to commute the 70 miles from Cleethorpes. Unfortunately, I have not only done quite a bit of overtime but the boat has required a lot of work with changing the lights, insulating the floor, installing a new combination sink & hob etc

The owners of the marina have got really pissy with me about this (even though there are a couple of narrowboats who live aboard there) and I don't know where I stand. It's a non-residential marina but I'm not intending to live there just spend some nights - maximum 10 in a fortnight but usually 4 a week.

What gives?

Its up to the marina owner what rules he imposes.

[Martin Megson]

You need to read the contract you have with the marina. Ideally before you signed it.

[Richard10002]

You need to read the contract you have with the marina. Ideally before you signed it.

+1

 

What does the contract say about overnight stays. 10 nights a fortnight isn't living aboard, neither is 4 nights a week.

 

If it does not expressly state times, but uses words like "reasonable", it would be reasonable to ask them what they mean.

[MtB]

I'd be inclined to stay overnight on the boat when it suits you anyway. There is probably bugger all they can do about it subject to the mooring contract as others have said. Boats have beds in, for sleeping in. I bet loads of moorers there stay overnight occasionally.

 

I expect they got pissy about it assuming your request was the thin end of the wedge. Y'know, the wedge where in a few months time they find you are actually sleeping on it 7 nights a week, having your post sent there, have junk piled up on the pontoon and a dog living in the boat too, which gets taken out twice a day for a shit walk on the marina. This will be their fear I bet...

 

MtB

P.S. Having read your OP again, I expect you are flagged up on the marina management radar already due to all the work you have been carrying out on the boat.

 

They have been half expecting you to move onto the boat I bet and are ready to stamp on that one, so your request possibly just confirmed their fear. Keep a very low profile in future and I'd say they'll leave you to it.

 

MtB

[Nitrowing]

I haven't actually handed over the mooring contract as it was posted to my house and the owners started making noises before I'd picked it up, I'm going in to see them tomorrow to show them my license, insurance etc and hopefully get this discussed sensibly.

 

I can understand that the marina doesn't fancy the idea of a water-pikey rolling up and making a mess but it wouldn't be difficult for them to do a credit check (or look at the great big Honda GoldWing) and see that this isn't ging to be a 'residence'!

 

The contract doesn't actually specify how many nights I'm permitted to stay on board and I'll quote the email from the owner...

 

If you wish to stay in the boat for the odd couple of nights, occasionally three, and using it to go out on cruises along the canal that is what I would consider to be using the boat as a leisure berth but if that then slips to four or five nights and the boat doesn't move then in my view you are not using the boat for leisure purposes rather you are using it as accommodation.

I am not going to give you a definite number of days in the month or distance you must travel as I do not have the time nor inclination to go through every conceivable scenario.

I hope this clarifies the situation.

 

 

Now, to be honest, this isn't the sort of attitude I expect from someone who wants my money - nor does it explain what the other boats are doing having sat there much longer than me!

I'd be quite happy to relocate the boat and pay them for a months mooring...

[Paul C]

I haven't actually handed over the mooring contract as it was posted to my house and the owners started making noises before I'd picked it up, I'm going in to see them tomorrow to show them my license, insurance etc and hopefully get this discussed sensibly.

 

I can understand that the marina doesn't fancy the idea of a water-pikey rolling up and making a mess but it wouldn't be difficult for them to do a credit check (or look at the great big Honda GoldWing) and see that this isn't ging to be a 'residence'!

 

The contract doesn't actually specify how many nights I'm permitted to stay on board and I'll quote the email from the owner...

 

 

Now, to be honest, this isn't the sort of attitude I expect from someone who wants my money - nor does it explain what the other boats are doing having sat there much longer than me!

I'd be quite happy to relocate the boat and pay them for a months mooring...

 

It seems like he's 100% answered your question.

 

3 nights per week ---> leisure

4 nights per week ---> accommodation (note he's not used the word "residential").

 

Staying on boat then going cruising ---> leisure

Staying on boat but not going anywhere ---> accommodation

[Neil2]

I suspect the owners have good reasons for adopting this attitude. Our marina for example does not have residential moorings but if you ask they will admit there are several people who "do spend a lot of time on the boat". Most folk would be reassured by this, as I was, if you have to leave your pride and joy somewhere for long periods unattended.

 

So if the folks at Victoria are taking a hard line they must have had serious negative experiences in the past. However you choose to deal with this, I'd have that at the forefront of your mind.

[furnessvale]

Deleted

Edited March 31, 2014 by furnessvale

[mark99]

Some marinas have a licenced for limited residential berths and they are inhabited by people acting as wardens to look after the place.

 

TBH you sound like you are using the boat as cheap accomodation. Even though you don't live there.

Edited April 1, 2014 by mark99

[Northernboater]

How did you get the boat there? did you come up the Tinsley flight? as with a little Dawncraft plastic I would not like to do it regular in that type of boat and knowing the flight it sounds like your are just using it as cheap accommodation and are not planning to be going out on the canals, so can you blame the Marina operators as they have more experience and know the system far better then you and have probably heard it all before off people trying to live cheaply. I'm in Sheffield this weekend for the half marathon and usually pop down to the basin so I will keep an eye out for you, a little Dawncraft shouldn't be too hard to spot amongst the narrowboats.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Northernboater

[Naughty Cal]

How did you get the boat there? did you come up the Tinsley flight? as with a little Dawncraft plastic I would not like to do it regular in that type of boat and knowing the flight it sounds like your are just using it as cheap accommodation and are not planning to be going out on the canals, so can you blame the Marina operators as they have more experience and know the system far better then you and have probably heard it all before off people trying to live cheaply. I'm in Sheffield this weekend for the half marathon and usually pop down to the basin so I will keep an eye out for you, a little Dawncraft shouldn't be too hard to spot amongst the narrowboats.

Why would you not want to use a "little plastic cruiser" on a regular basis in locks?

[Nitrowing]

I went to speak to one of the directors today but they had taken their daughter to the dentist(?!?).

 

The main reason for owning a mobile bed is to use it for accomodation - I work in different places in the UK and I love the idea that I can bimble through the country and sleep in my own bed rather than throw money away in hotels.

Secondary is the fact the my lady and I can float through the countryside when she comes to visit.

 

I discussed the matter of the other boats in the marina. One is a residential mooring from before the marina changed hands, another 2 are moving on and the other is just finishing their winter mooring before moving on.

 

I had the boat delivered on the back of a Hiab as I wanted it now! I like the idea of cruising as the idea of being dictated to by marina owners has worn thin already. I'll buy a little petrol back-up generator and bimble up and down the Trent (unless I can find a friendlier marina on the Trent).

 

I'm not ever intending to 'live aboard' - I have a perfectly functional house in Cleethorpes - I just want to be able to spend a few nights a week in it when I have to do over-time or the weather is atrocious.

[Alan de Enfield]

I'll buy a little petrol back-up generator and bimble up and down the Trent

 

Just a question with all good intentions - but have you had much experience of boats prior to buying this one ?

I think you will have big problems trying to 'bimble up and down the Trent' as you will need to find somewhere to moor it every night and you canot just tie it up on the River bank - and more particularly on the few days that you leave it.

 

Are you aware that parts of the Trent are Tidal - what engine do you have and do you have suitable safety equipment ?

 

Are you aware that the Trent can rise 3 or 4 feet in very short time when the 'rains' come down in Derbyshire and Leicestershire.

 

If you want a marina (although probably too far away) you could try Kings Marina at Newark. With a leisure mooring you can stay on board as many nights as you want (365 per year) as long as you can prove you are paying council tax (in your name) somewhere else.

Cost will be around £1000 per annum (£150 per metre)

[Northernboater]

Why would you not want to use a "little plastic cruiser" on a regular basis in locks?

I'm talking specifically about the Tinsley flight as some of the locks can be a bit rough, have you been up them on your boat as your from Sheffield? And if you have would you like to do it on a regular basis?

[Northernboater]

It's a non-residential marina but I'm not intending to live there just spend some nights - maximum 10 in a fortnight but usually 4 a week.

What gives?

 

 

 

I just want to be able to spend a few nights a week in it when I have to do over-time or the weather is atrocious.

 

You can see why the owners are cautious, you've just moved in on a leisure mooring and you have been on the boat more times then you have been at home, 10 days in 14??

What you must realise is, there are a lot of people out there who are living un-officially on leisure moorings, you can't blame the Marina operator for monitoring the situation in his marina, many people wish CaRT would monitor their moorings far better regarding people moving on and living full time on a leisure mooring.

[Naughty Cal]

I'm talking specifically about the Tinsley flight as some of the locks can be a bit rough, have you been up them on your boat as your from Sheffield? And if you have would you like to do it on a regular basis?

A lot of locks can be a "bit rough"

 

The worst by far we have come across was Holme when the lockie decided to whack the paddles full bore at us. The tidal wave running across the cill had to be seen to be believed. Doesn't mean we won't use it again. With appropriate fendering and use of ropes there is no reason that cruisers can not use locks any less than steel craft.

 

We have not taken NC to Sheffield yet. It seems a bit counter productive taking a holiday to where we live! Doesn't mean that at some time in the future we won't though.

 

We have walked up and down the flight with lockie and boaters as they traverse the flight and I wouldn't say that the locks are any worse than others we have encountered!

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

I would prefer almost any sea locks, To Bath deep lock to be fair.

Just for the sake of making comparisons.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Richard10002]

Sounds to me like you can stay on your boat in the marina 3 nights a week, and remain in harmony with the marina. You seem to need to stay on board for 4 nights a week, which is not good for harmony.

 

It also seems that some of the nights on board are because of the need to do repairs.

 

Each week where you might need more than 3 nights, why not use the three nights the marina "allow" then, for any other nights you might wish/need to stay on board, tootle up the canal a bit, tie up, and do the work. Find somewhere you can park your car nearby, buy a generator, and you're self sufficient for as long as you wish. If you can't get your car near, make your plans so you don't need to get far on the days away from the marina.

 

If, every now and then, you spend 4 nights aboard, you probably won't have the same problem as if you do it every week.

[Nitrowing]

Experience of boating... 3 weeks.

Amount of locks navigated.... 0!

The boat has a BMC1800 which the PO left an egg cup full of diesel in, I need to charge the batteries and bleed the system - it's jobs like this that take my time after work and obviously I can't try doing engine work after 8pm.

 

Alan - Thanks for the information on King's Marina - that looks like a good location for me, about 50 miles from my house with better access to the country than the end of a canal in Sheffield! If that's where I go, I'll get the boat put on a lorry again - there's no way I'm going on the Humber

[Alan de Enfield]

Nitrowing - you have a private message

[Northernboater]

Alan - Thanks for the information on King's Marina - that looks like a good location for me, about 50 miles from my house with better access to the country than the end of a canal in Sheffield! If that's where I go, I'll get the boat put on a lorry again - there's no way I'm going on the Humber

 

Maybe you may want to buy a canal map and plan a trip for the Summer, as if you do find yourself on the Humber while trying to get to Newark from Sheffield you've taken a wrong turn some where. Get your boat ready and go and enjoy it.

[MtB]

A nice middle path which would totally satisfy the marina would be to stay on the boat in the marina for a couple of nights, then take it out onto the river for the third night, then return for the fourth.

 

This way you comply with their 'three nights a week rule', they get to see you going out boating, and you get to go out boating!

 

After a while of not making a PITA of yourself, they'll prolly relax their rule without even noticing.

 

 

MtB

[Naughty Cal]

Experience of boating... 3 weeks.

Amount of locks navigated.... 0!

The boat has a BMC1800 which the PO left an egg cup full of diesel in, I need to charge the batteries and bleed the system - it's jobs like this that take my time after work and obviously I can't try doing engine work after 8pm.

 

Alan - Thanks for the information on King's Marina - that looks like a good location for me, about 50 miles from my house with better access to the country than the end of a canal in Sheffield! If that's where I go, I'll get the boat put on a lorry again - there's no way I'm going on the Humber

If you end up on the Humber, turn around you have gone wrong somewhere!

 

Agreed though Sheffield basin isn't the ideal location for weekend cruising which is why despite living and working in the city we keep our boat some 50 miles away just outside Lincoln. Far better cruising options on the doorstep yet within an hours drive of Home/work.

 

If I were you I would be looking at relocating to the other side of the lock flight at least if not a bit further afield for better cruising options.

 

The CRT moorings auction site often has long term moorings up for auction in the locality that would suit a boat of your size. A couple that immediately spring to mind were recent moorings at Long Sandall and Doncaster.

[Richard10002]

How far is the lock flight from the basin?