Boat without 240V

[Hey Ho]

My boat search continues. One that I'm interested in has 12 volt electrics only, no 240 volt circuit.

 

I suppose this was the norm not so long ago, and I don't think it bothers me as I'd be cruising most of the time anyway if things go according to plan. I'm wondering though whether I'd be able to use a shoreline when in a marina?

 

Is it as simple as plugging into a bollard & trailing an extension lead in through the doors, or is that hopelessly naive & asking for all sorts of problems, either safety wise or in terms of galvanic corrosion? It's not vitally important to me that I could use shore power, but it's something I'd probably be tempted to do sooner or later.

 

 

[Ex- Member]

My boat search continues.

One that I'm interested in has 12 volt electrics only, no 240 volt circuit.

 

 

I suppose this was the norm not so long ago, and I don't think it bothers me as I'd be cruising most of the time anyway if things go according to plan. I'm wondering though whether I'd be able to use a shoreline when in a marina?

 

Is it as simple as plugging into a bollard & trailing an extension lead in through the doors, or is that hopelessly naive & asking for all sorts of problems, either safety wise or in terms of galvanic corrosion? It's not vitally important to me that I could use shore power, but it's something I'd probably be tempted to do sooner or later.

 

 

 

ETA ETA ETA deleted first paragraph, completely misunderstood the first part of the post

 

Ideally if you want to use shore power you need a consumer unit on board. I can't comment on the safety side of a single extension lead from a bollard other than you're likely to overload it if you want to run several appliances from a single lead and socket.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Julynian

[Naughty Cal]

How easy would it be to install a simple 240v system?

[John Williamson 1955]

How easy would it be to install a simple 240v system?

It cost me a couple of hundred for parts and took almost a day, but I was ashore and in a boatyard.

 

16Amp weatherproof connectors and lead to get the power on board, a garage consumer unit, galvanic isolator, some wire, and a few sockets. It's not rocket science. It's best to use 16A site cable for the interior wiring as well.

Edited February 28, 2014 by John Williamson 1955

[Hey Ho]

It cost me a couple of hundred for parts and took almost a day, but I was ashore and in a boatyard.

 

 

Ah, thanks. It seems like a 'non problem' in that case. I like to live in a fairly minimalist way & don't covet microwaves & washing machines, but it's good to know I could get a basic 240v system cheaply.

 

I've been looking for a boat for a while now and just seem to be getting more and more fussy. With most boats I look at there's a good couple of thousand pounds worth of changes I'd want to make. So if this one's only a couple of hundred then that's good.

 

I'm still interested to know, would the bollard/extension lead idea work with an RCD plug the first thing that goes into the extension lead socket? It would only be for an electric rad in winter, or maybe a computer charger - everything else would be 12v.

[John Williamson 1955]

 

Ah, thanks. It seems like a 'non problem' in that case. I like to live in a fairly minimalist way & don't covet microwaves & washing machines, but it's good to know I could get a basic 240v system cheaply.

 

I've been looking for a boat for a while now and just seem to be getting more and more fussy. With most boats I look at there's a good couple of thousand pounds worth of changes I'd want to make. So if this one's only a couple of hundred then that's good.

 

I'm still interested to know, would the bollard/extension lead idea work with an RCD plug the first thing that goes into the extension lead socket? It would only be for an electric rad in winter, or maybe a computer charger - everything else would be 12v.

Work, yes. Legally, no. Unfortunately you have the BSS requirements to contend with that state that there must be a consumer unit (Which will have its own RCD and circuit breakers in it) on the boat, and the galvanic isolator is made necessary by the requirement for the earth connection of the internal wiring to be securely earthed to the hull, assuming it's metal.

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/non-private-boats/part-3-electrical-installations/

 

Most bollards I've seen use the building site type connectors at either 16 or 32 amps, so a normal 13 amp extension lead won't connect, and if you just put a site plug on the end, you lose the protection of the fuse in the 13A plug. Electricity and water mix far too dangerously to take chances.

[junior]

My boat is/was 12v only. Matty40s installed a simple 240v circuit that gives me 3 pin plug socket to use if I have a hook up available. Been living aboard for 6 months now and never used it, so I'd be happy to say that 240v is unnecessary on a boat.

[Hey Ho]

Junior, that's the way I saw it so thanks for confirming. John Williamson, you have also confirmed what I thought deep down re the extension lead - best not to. It's the sort of thing I'd have happily done in my teens so is bound to be dangerous.

[paneuro]

just to save me looking it up,what's a galvanic isolator,some kind of protection?

[John Williamson 1955]

Here, let me Google it for you:-

 

http://www.pkys.com/FAQ/galvanic.htm

 

Tells all you need.

[paneuro]

thanks for that,i thought the anodes did that,never thought this type of corrosion existed!

[John Williamson 1955]

Anodes are for a totally different problem. When the pain below the waterline gets scratched or otherwise damaged, they corrode in peference to the steel of your hull and stern gear. It's the same principle protecting the galvanised chassis I had put under the Land Rover in 2008. It still looks almost new.

[paneuro]

i used to do welding on m.o.t failures and did quite a few land rovers ,you could keep them going for years,what did you do?rplace the chassis members with galvanised steel?

[John Williamson 1955]

i used to do welding on m.o.t failures and did quite a few land rovers ,you could keep them going for years,what did you do?rplace the chassis members with galvanised steel?

No, I replaced the whole chassis with a new galvanised one made by a firm in Rotherham? It was either that or scrap a vehicle I had owned for thirty years, as I was told the previous year not to bother bringing it back again as there was no metal to weld anything to. It cost a total of about four grand including labour. This one was a fairly rotten teenager when I bought it in about 1983.

 

http://www.richardschassis.co.uk/

 

(No connection, just a satisfied customer)

[paneuro]

that is megga! imagine having a boat hull like that! mind you,i'd have lost some good jobs if that had been about in the70's!

[David Schweizer]

Work, yes. Legally, no. Unfortunately you have the BSS requirements to contend with that state that there must be a consumer unit (Which will have its own RCD and circuit breakers in it) on the boat, and the galvanic isolator is made necessary by the requirement for the earth connection of the internal wiring to be securely earthed to the hull, assuming it's metal.

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/non-private-boats/part-3-electrical-installations/

 

Most bollards I've seen use the building site type connectors at either 16 or 32 amps, so a normal 13 amp extension lead won't connect, and if you just put a site plug on the end, you lose the protection of the fuse in the 13A plug. Electricity and water mix far too dangerously to take chances.

 

I have looked at the link, and it would appear that the BSS "requirements" are advisory, not mandatory for private boats. or have I misread the notes.?

 

Some while ago I installed a single three core (arctic) cable on our boat, running from a single 13amp socket in the saloon to the back cabin where it terminates with a 13 amp plug, which is plugged into a 350 watt inverter when required. I am planning to wire the inverter in permanently, but at the moment it is supplied via a 15amp (round pin) socket which is wired through a fuse to the domestic batteries, All the wiring instalation information I can find in the BSS sems to relate to shore power, so will my current setup meet the BSS rcomendations? I already have an RCD circuit breaker unit which I was planning to use , but will I still have to instal a consumer unit?

 

To be honest the only time we use the 240v supply is to re-charge the cordless drill and screwdriver, as all our on board equipment operates on 12volt, Even the mobile phones are charged through a special voltage reducing unit which operates on 12volt. I realise that all this is irrelevant to a BSS examiner, who could rightly assume that I, or a future owner, may run much higher powered equipment, possibly from a much bigger inverter. The present system has been seen and passed by two examiners, but do the new advisory notes mean that we now run the risk of failure?

 

Lots of questions there, where are Gibbo and ChrisW when they are needed?

Edited March 1, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Alan de Enfield]

The 'system' on our previous boat was :

 

Shore lead to blue socket on the stern

Short length of 3 core cable thru the wall into a standard domestic 220v twin socket.

A 'ring main' of 4 sockets around the boat, leading back to a single 13 amp plug which plugged into the socket (call it the 'feed socket) fed by the shoreline.

 

The 'feed socket' could be connected to the ring main, a battery charger, 220v tools etc.

 

This sytem had passed BSS (at least once) and the examiner had called it a 'temporary' supply (which would fall outside the remit of the BSS) just like if an extension lead was being run from the bollard (which in effect it was)

 

This time (December 2013) It failed the BSS as it did not have RCD / MCB protetion - well it did but it relied on the 'bollards' protection which was not enough.

 

Had to fit one - not a huge problem - just replaced the "feeder socket" with a £20 RCD jobbie from ebay and Bobs Your Uncle.

 

It does pay to stay with the same surveyou tho' (unless he has retired)

[OldGoat]

No, I replaced the whole chassis with a new galvanised one made by a firm in Rotherham? It was either that or scrap a vehicle I had owned for thirty years, as I was told the previous year not to bother bringing it back again as there was no metal to weld anything to. It cost a total of about four grand including labour. This one was a fairly rotten teenager when I bought it in about 1983.

 

http://www.richardschassis.co.uk/

 

(No connection, just a satisfied customer)

 

Time was when NBs were akin to Landrovers (pre Defenders),

now looking on here they're getting like Range Rovers with all the complexities that (new) folks on here want:-

 

PCs

Widescreen TVs

Underfloor heating

Electric cookers, microwaves, dishwashers, tumble dryers, washing machines

[Neil2]

 

Time was when NBs were akin to Landrovers (pre Defenders),

now looking on here they're getting like Range Rovers with all the complexities that (new) folks on here want:-

 

PCs

Widescreen TVs

Underfloor heating

Electric cookers, microwaves, dishwashers, tumble dryers, washing machines

Don't knock it OG - this is good news for those in the market for more basic boats.

 

I've mentioned a few times that having observed the NB market for a year or so, I reckon the under 35 foot sector is in a tailspin and it's partly because you can't fit all the creature comforts people want these days into a small boat.

 

Ten years ago if you wanted a steel boat on a budget the Waterbug was about the only choice. I'm convinced the patient buyer can find a reasonable 30 foot boat for under ten grand today and tired boats 35-40 foot are drifting that way as well.

 

How many times do we see a newcomer to the forum asking for opinions on 50-60 foot boats?

Edited March 1, 2014 by Neil2

[paneuro]

The 'system' on our previous boat was :

 

Shore lead to blue socket on the stern

Short length of 3 core cable thru the wall into a standard domestic 220v twin socket.

A 'ring main' of 4 sockets around the boat, leading back to a single 13 amp plug which plugged into the socket (call it the 'feed socket) fed by the shoreline.

 

The 'feed socket' could be connected to the ring main, a battery charger, 220v tools etc.

 

This sytem had passed BSS (at least once) and the examiner had called it a 'temporary' supply (which would fall outside the remit of the BSS) just like if an extension lead was being run from the bollard (which in effect it was)

 

This time (December 2013) It failed the BSS as it did not have RCD / MCB protetion - well it did but it relied on the 'bollards' protection which was not enough.

 

Had to fit one - not a huge problem - just replaced the "feeder socket" with a £20 RCD jobbie from ebay and Bobs Your Uncle.

 

It does pay to stay with the same surveyou tho' (unless he has retired)

this is all i thought you did anyway till i read otherwise ,would you say you'd have to have a pretty sympathetic surveyer if you did it this basic?

[Alan de Enfield]

this is all i thought you did anyway till i read otherwise ,would you say you'd have to have a pretty sympathetic surveyer if you did it this basic?

 

This was how the boat was when we purchased it - it had a new (couple of week old) BSS so why would we question its suitability.

When the next BSS was due I read up the 'notes' and thought it was a bit 'suspect', as it turned out to be.

[David Mack]

The 'system' on our previous boat was :

 

Shore lead to blue socket on the stern

If that is actually what you had it is horribly dangerous. You should have a blue plug on the stern, and the lead from the shore supply should end in a blue socket which connects to the plug on the boat. Edited March 2, 2014 by David Mack

[b0atman]

Yet again BSS is causing problems to justify its rip off pricing the electric supply is protected by the bank supply mcb and rcd .all that is needed on the boat is a mounted blue plug wired through to 230v 13amp socket this can be a single socket as a minimum anything plugged in will have fuse protection and a means of isolation by simply unplugging . we need knowledgable people with a sensible attitude on any revision panels not jobsworths who will add more and more to what should be a simple set of rules to protect boats and lives .Have they never heard of risk analysis ?

[Phil Ambrose]

BOatman heartily agree, have a virtual greenie.

Phil

[Alan de Enfield]

David Mack, on 02 Mar 2014 - 5:00 PM, said:

If that is actually what you had it is horribly dangerous. You should have a blue plug on the stern, and the lead from the shore supply should end in a blue socket which connects to the plug on the boat.

 

Quite right it was a blue 'plug' into (over) which fitted a blue socket - I guess I just fell into the trap that a socket is the 'fixed' part and a plug, plugs into it.

 

We dont want live 'male pins' floating about.

Yet again BSS is causing problems to justify its rip off pricing the electric supply is protected by the bank supply mcb and rcd .all that is needed on the boat is a mounted blue plug wired through to 230v 13amp socket this can be a single socket as a minimum anything plugged in will have fuse protection and a means of isolation by simply unplugging . we need knowledgable people with a sensible attitude on any revision panels not jobsworths who will add more and more to what should be a simple set of rules to protect boats and lives .Have they never heard of risk analysis ?

 

Thats just what we had - it passed in the past and failed this time !