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Questionnaire on enhancing the manoeuvrability of canal boats via a Kitchen rudder


chris1234

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I am a final year mechanical engineering student and my final year project is based on the Kitchen rudder. To do some market research to find out if the Kitchen rudder presents a viable business opportunity, could anyone who owns a canal boat, narrow boat or other inland waterway craft please fill in the questionnaire via the link attached. It is 8 multiple choice questions so it should not take too long.

Thanks

 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1uD9nFlbveynFKJm9r9VS_ZIMRcigkBzq2NipwIny4xM/viewform

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From my limited knowledge of the Kitchen Rudder it would have two major (but linked) disadvantages on Canal Boats

 

Firstly remember that our canals are only a couple of feet deep and are a depository for a great deal of rubbish, from plastic bags to matresses, wire to shopping trolleys

 

1) The clamshell encloses the propeller and the 'flow' causes 'suction' (for want of a better word) which will drag all of the rubbish directly into the prop, without it much of the rubbish flows past the prop

 

2) Such is the 'normal state' of affairs that narrowboats have a 'weed-hatch' built thru the bottom of the boat to give access to the propeller to clear the rubbish wrapped around the prop. The 'clamshell' of the Kitchen Rudder means that this access could not be used as it encloses the prop.

 

Products similar have been used for many years by canal boats with outboard motors, the benefit of the outboard motor is that it can easily be either tilted or completely removed from the boat for clearing.

 

May be you could add a 9th question - "do you think it will work ?"

 

9322d1159241749-kitchen-rudder-snk24.jpg

 

9321d1159241529-kitchen-rudder-kitchen-r

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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May be you could add a 9th question - "do you think it will work ?"

 

I completed the questionnaire but added similar points to the ones you have made here in the comments box at the bottom.

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I've filled in the questionnaire, but added a couple of points:

How would this work in reverse?

I often use the rudder to "row" round tight bends. (I know there are those who say it doesn't make any difference. I beg to differ!) You couldn't do this with a Kitchen rudder

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Thanks for the replies. I'll try and answer some of the points raised.

 

My project supervisor has a canal boat with a kitchen rudder fitted to it and has not had any problems with weed fouling or things getting stuck in it. So I think the problem may be a bit over exaggerated particularly on well maintained waterways. Also the bottom of the clamshells is not lower than the keel of the boat so anything big would hit that first and a mattress or similiar would be to big to get sucked into it.

If something did get caught in it you could still have a "weed hatch", and close the rudder to gain better access to to propeller.

 

A good thing about the kitchen rudder is that while maintaining a constant engine speed you can adjust the rudder to move forwards and backwards at a speed slower than the idle speed of the engine. Also the clamshells can be turned whilest closed for sharper turning. In theory you could turn the kitchen rudder and then open and close it to "row" around tight bends although I would not have thought that you would need to.

 

The document below in the link contains more information about the Kitchen rudder and its inventor. It is a common misconception that it was Admiral Kitchener and not John Kitchen that invented it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22985018/Kitchen-Rudders-Their-Inventor-and-Some-Applications

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Here's a common scenario:

You're reversing round, say Braunston turn. You clip the rudder on the coping and the worst that happens is that you dislodge it from the skeg. I'm not sure how well the housing round the Kitchen rudder - which looks pretty flimsy to me - would withstand a similar knock. It's not only hitting things on the bottom you've got to think about, but reversing into a brick wall!

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Here's a common scenario:

You're reversing round, say Braunston turn. You clip the rudder on the coping and the worst that happens is that you dislodge it from the skeg. I'm not sure how well the housing round the Kitchen rudder - which looks pretty flimsy to me - would withstand a similar knock. It's not only hitting things on the bottom you've got to think about, but reversing into a brick wall!

 

...especially if your boat weighs 25 tons- that's a lot of momentum to put into the rudder....

 

I can see it working well on smaller narrowboats, but on the bigger boats, I can't see any advantages.

 

I wonder if your supervisor has been around the BCN and how it deals with saris, industrial wrapping wire, etc.

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My project supervisor has a canal boat with a kitchen rudder fitted to it and has not had any problems with weed fouling or things getting stuck in it. So I think the problem may be a bit over exaggerated particularly on well maintained waterways.

 

 

Unfortunately, bizarre objects which can & do get caught in a propeller and require a trip down the weedhatch, can end up in any canal, even well maintained ones. Granted that there seems to be more in some canals than others, eg BCN has a particularly poor reputation for debris in the canal.

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He took a day off and went sailing?

 

 

 

They don't teach history as they used to......

Lord Kitchener sorry. He died on a warship and I forgot his title.

 

Which ones are those ?

Could you please ask your project supervisor which ones he regularly cruises on.

 

Lets pick one at random - how about going into Coventry ?

I'm not sure how far he goes without asking him but I think he mostly stays on the Sheffield and Tinsley Canal.

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Here's a common scenario:

You're reversing round, say Braunston turn. You clip the rudder on the coping and the worst that happens is that you dislodge it from the skeg. I'm not sure how well the housing round the Kitchen rudder - which looks pretty flimsy to me - would withstand a similar knock. It's not only hitting things on the bottom you've got to think about, but reversing into a brick wall!

True if you did hit something like a brick wall the clamshells would probably bend and need replacing. The danger of hidden objects could limit its usefullness in certain places. I think though it could be designed to dislodge and come off the skeg rather than break to make repairing easier. It is something I will think about.

 

One of the concerns my supervisor had about the Kitchen rudder on his canal boat was the forces required to control it, at certain angles they can get quite large. Still manageable, but one of the sections of my project is to do a Computational Fluid Dynamics analysis of it to see if changes in the clamshell design can reduce them.

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Is this a real build it and use it project or just a design project looking for design inefficiencies . If the latter it doesn't matter if bricks will bust it going backwards or traffic cones jam it. Whitfield was a great design project, it was just some one decided to build it.

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Is this a real build it and use it project or just a design project looking for design inefficiencies . If the latter it doesn't matter if bricks will bust it going backwards or traffic cones jam it. Whitfield was a great design project, it was just some one decided to build it.

I am studying Mechanical Engineering with Industrial Management so part of my dissertation is going to be on investigating the potential business opportunities for the Kitchen rudder. So far I see that there is concern over weed fouling and its strength if it hit anything, and this would put people of wanting one but its beyond the scope of my project to redesign it or test this to see how bad it is and how it could be improved.

 

I am analysing the current design my supervisor has on his canal boat and trying to improve it using Computational Fluid Dynamics. The clamshells are straight around the propeller and then point inwards after so for instance varying the angle at which they do that would be something I will look at. The main aim is to try and reduce the force required to hold the Kitchen rudder closed when manoeuvring. After I have come up with my conclusions he may fabricate another improved rudder to replace it but that is up to him.

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You do see a fair number of 'tubes' (similar principle) bolted onto the cavitation plates of outboards

And lifeboats on cruise ships and ro-ro ferries, so why has it not yet been universally adopted by narrow boat builders..

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And lifeboats on cruise ships and ro-ro ferries, so why has it not yet been universally adopted by narrow boat builders..

 

 

No - No, dont help me, I'll get it in a minute...........................................................

 

...............................................................................................................................

 

Is it because it wont work ?

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My kitchen is in the centre of the boat and only has portholes. I would struggle to see the rubbish filled bridges and other boats, and a 10m tiller arm would get in the way when wanting to use the shower.

 

ROFLMAO - have to admit my first thought as well!

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You do see a fair number of 'tubes' (similar principle) bolted onto the cavitation plates of outboards

But they are supposed to stop people in the water getting cut up by the prop. I think that it is generally accepted that they do not improve the performance of the outboard. Maneuverability is not a problem with outboards anyway as you "steer" the prop.

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But they are supposed to stop people in the water getting cut up by the prop. I think that it is generally accepted that they do not improve the performance of the outboard. Maneuverability is not a problem with outboards anyway as you "steer" the prop.

 

Whilst I agree that you 'steer with the prop' I would argue that a standard (small) ouboard with (say) a 4" prop running at slow speed (as per a canal boat) has very limited maneuverability, and that infact having the 'tube' creates a 'jet' of water that does have some gains in handling

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