RN DM3

[wandering snail]

Could using 'white' road diesel cause any problems with this engine?

[mattlad]

No. RN's are very tolerant of poor fuels. Some biofuels may cause problems with parts of the supply side.

 

When we were custodians of RN we made sure they would run on all available types of diesel fuel (and some other fuels as well, namely waste oil!)

[linnit]

No. RN's are very tolerant of poor fuels. Some biofuels may cause problems with parts of the supply side.

 

When we were custodians of RN we made sure they would run on all available types of diesel fuel (and some other fuels as well, namely waste oil!)

Does that mean that I can put my 10 litres of waste oil from oil change in my DM2 into my 300litre fueltank of diesel?

[MtB]

Does that mean that I can put my 10 litres of waste oil from oil change in my DM2 into my 300litre fueltank of diesel?

 

I'm sure it does, but even so it's rather a poor risk/reward chance to take.

 

If it buggers up the injectors or anything else then you've cost yourself the price of an engine repair, a tankful of contaminated diesel, cost of disposal of said diesel, and all for the benefit of burning ten litres of oil instead of ten litres of new diesel.

 

You're taking the small risk of incurring perhaps a £1k repair bill in return for the certainty of saving a tenner on fuel.

 

MtB

[Timleech]

 

I'm sure it does, but even so it's rather a poor risk/reward chance to take.

 

If it buggers up the injectors or anything else then you've cost yourself the price of an engine repair, a tankful of contaminated diesel, cost of disposal of said diesel, and all for the benefit of burning ten litres of oil instead of ten litres of new diesel.

 

You're taking the small risk of incurring perhaps a £1k repair bill in return for the certainty of saving a tenner on fuel.

 

MtB

 

Gardners used to suggest adding waste sump oil to the fuel as a means of disposal, though IIRC in a much lower proportion than that.

 

Technically illegal for a road vehicle, because the road fuel tax hasn't been paid, but I suspect the old manuals which suggested it were written before that was an issue.

 

Tim

Edited February 16, 2014 by Timleech

[Athy]

Mattlad, your post is intriguing. What is or was your connection with this famous old make of engine?

[wandering snail]

No. RN's are very tolerant of poor fuels. Some biofuels may cause problems with parts of the supply side.

 

When we were custodians of RN we made sure they would run on all available types of diesel fuel (and some other fuels as well, namely waste oil!)

I askd cos I thought white was more a more refined product than red, it certainly whizzes through our Sigmar stove which hasn't coked up like it does on red.

[OldGoat]

I askd cos I thought white was more a more refined product than red, it certainly whizzes through our Sigmar stove which hasn't coked up like it does on red.

 

Your 'Red' must have come from a very mucky tank as there is now NO difference between Red and 'White' diesel other than the colour. It's just not worth the refinery producing two grades of Gas Oil.

[MtB]

 

Your 'Red' must have come from a very mucky tank as there is now NO difference between Red and 'White' diesel other than the colour. It's just not worth the refinery producing two grades of Gas Oil.

 

Beg to differ OG.

 

I have a friend with a diesel fired bubble stove which runs like an utter dog on road diesel from the filling station, if you can light it at all, but it is more than happy on red diesel bought from the fuel boat. You can probably work out how I know this!

 

MtB

[mattlad]

Mattlad, your post is intriguing. What is or was your connection with this famous old make of engine?

Hi Athy Dad formed RN Diesel Engine Company Ltd about ten years ago and set up the current production facility in Daventry, making Russell Newbury engines. Unfortunately Dad had some health issues and sold the company 3 or 4 years ago.

 

It would have been great to carry on but it was not to be........

 

We are still involved with the Russell Newbury Register and make it to the rallies.

Does that mean that I can put my 10 litres of waste oil from oil change in my DM2 into my 300litre fueltank of diesel?

We fitted a substantial filtration system to the fuel system and filtered down to one micron before allowing the fuel into the engine. One thing we found was the build up of crap in the bottom of the fuel tank meaning you would have to clean the tank out from time to time.

We also had to make adjustments to the fuel metering and timing, after doing everything we needed to do they used to run as smooth and clean as an engine running on normal diesel with a little less knock.

Edited February 16, 2014 by mattlad

[alan_fincher]

 

Beg to differ OG.

 

I have a friend with a diesel fired bubble stove which runs like an utter dog on road diesel from the filling station, if you can light it at all, but it is more than happy on red diesel bought from the fuel boat. You can probably work out how I know this!

 

MtB

 

This defies logical explanation - the normal claim used to be, (as I feel sure you know!) that things would run cleaner on ULS road diesel than on 'red' gas oil.

 

But now Old Goat is correct - other than the dye, they are the same product again these days.

 

Until not that long ago the gas oil sold as marine diesel was allowed to have a very much higher maximum sulphur content than DERV, but that has all now ended, and both products now have to be sold as ultra low sulphur, meaning we are back to both being the same.

[MtB]

 

This defies logical explanation - the normal claim used to be, (as I feel sure you know!) that things would run cleaner on ULS road diesel than on 'red' gas oil.

 

I know. When the diesel boat was not due for a few days I confidently filled FOUR jerry cans at the petrol station certain it was exactly the same stuff, only to discover the stove would not run on it. DOH!

 

On reverting to red diesel it once again ran beautifully once the white was flushed through. The only explanation I can think of is the fuel boat concerned buys central heating fuel or something similar to, but a little different from, red diesel. Either that or the red dye affects combustion.

 

MtB

[alan_fincher]

 

MtB

The only explanation I can think of is the fuel boat concerned buys central heating fuel or something similar to, but a little different from, red diesel. Either that or the red dye affects combustion.

 

Or that there was something wrong with that particular lot of DERV?

[steamraiser2]

We fitted a substantial filtration system to the fuel system and filtered down to one micron before allowing the fuel into the engine. One thing we found was the build up of crap in the bottom of the fuel tank meaning you would have to clean the tank out from time to time.

We also had to make adjustments to the fuel metering and timing, after doing everything we needed to do they used to run as smooth and clean as an engine running on normal diesel with a little less knock.

Production of "Black" diesel is as straight forward process and is far easier than making biofuel for example. To avoid sludge in your fuel tank and a few other minor issues it is a good idea to process it through a simple plant that can be easily built at home. You can tweak the same piece of kit to filter diesel to get rid of diesel bug too. Lister JP's and the like are happy to run on black diesel. There is a formula that needs to be followed for consistency but it isn't rocket science. Never worth it for a few gallons but it can be viable when doing a couple of forty five gallon drums

[wandering snail]

 

I know. When the diesel boat was not due for a few days I confidently filled FOUR jerry cans at the petrol station certain it was exactly the same stuff, only to discover the stove would not run on it. DOH!

 

On reverting to red diesel it once again ran beautifully once the white was flushed through. The only explanation I can think of is the fuel boat concerned buys central heating fuel or something similar to, but a little different from, red diesel. Either that or the red dye affects combustion.

 

MtB

Mmm. We used central heating 'red' in Belgium where it's still available cheaply but this is the stuff that cokes up the Squirrel and Sigmar. Now having to use road diesel for everything in the Netherlands as that's all there is (everyone here has to use 'earth gas' for heating/cooking) and it whizzes through at an alarming pace but doesn't clog (sorry!). Would also have to use it for any nb engine we may bring over here, hence the question.

[MtB]

The thot plickens. On reflection the bubble stove I mention isn't a bubble stove at all, its a diesel fired Morso Squirrel. Presumably that same as yours!

 

A further point, on decanting the 'red diesel' from the fuel boat into the fuel header tank for the diesel Squirrel, I perceive the colour to be amber/yellow rather than red/pink. I wonder if this indicates it's not real red diesel.

 

MtB

[ditchcrawler]

Hi Athy Dad formed RN Diesel Engine Company Ltd about ten years ago and set up the current production facility in Daventry, making Russell Newbury engines. Unfortunately Dad had some health issues and sold the company 3 or 4 years ago.

 

It would have been great to carry on but it was not to be........

 

We are still involved with the Russell Newbury Register and make it to the rallies.

We fitted a substantial filtration system to the fuel system and filtered down to one micron before allowing the fuel into the engine. One thing we found was the build up of crap in the bottom of the fuel tank meaning you would have to clean the tank out from time to time.

We also had to make adjustments to the fuel metering and timing, after doing everything we needed to do they used to run as smooth and clean as an engine running on normal diesel with a little less knock.

Was that in Brian's boat?

[mattlad]

Was that in Brian's boat?

Yes.

[wandering snail]

The thot plickens. On reflection the bubble stove I mention isn't a bubble stove at all, its a diesel fired Morso Squirrel. Presumably that same as yours!

 

A further point, on decanting the 'red diesel' from the fuel boat into the fuel header tank for the diesel Squirrel, I perceive the colour to be amber/yellow rather than red/pink. I wonder if this indicates it's not real red diesel.

 

MtB

It wasn't very red coloured, more of an amber but someone told us it depended on how much stain was added. It didn't contain anti-freeze though cos it froze one year at -18! And yes, ours is a Lockgate Squirrel.

[OldGoat]

The oil business is all about volume and transport costs - even when bulk fuels are transported by pipeline.

Compared with road fuel volumes MGO is small, so not worth carting around the country. So the refineries ship unadulterated (!) white diesel and the local terminal then adds the dye in its storage tanks.

It may be different in areas where there is a large demand for MGO - in which case the stuff may well be shipped in bulk from overseas.

 

There was / is a marina group darn sarf who said their diesel would all be the Red stuff when the changeover was announced. They quickly found that they couldn't get it and had to back down.

 

The dyes changed some time ago as it was too easy to bleach it out. Current 'marking' is yellowish - but there is a colourless marker that can't be defeated.

 

'Suppose the only caveat for RN and other old engine designs is a matter of lubricity (sulphur was a good lubricant). The solution AFAIK is to add some Redex to the mix - when the engine will purr better than ever before!

 

 

[by'eck]

DM2 running on waste oil

 

[Strads]

Mattt is referring to "kyle",

 

She is now up for sale - I guess Brian wants to move on.

 

I also have the same filters fitted and would suggest that putting the oil from your own engine into the fuel is fine,, better lubed etc.

The engine dosnt notice a small amount.

 

With larger percentages it will on some days "smoke " more, Cost is 2 filters @ £20 a year.

saving @ 400 a year. over 3 years,..

 

with the need for new injectors every couple of years, if they wont blow clear at the factors.

 

I would recommend a 25% use as no issue, oddly enough people gave free fuel...!!

 

BUT don't do it without having these fine mesh filters.

[X Alan W]

Og re the last paragraph in your post I have very good results mixing 200ml of two stroke mix oil(the pre mix type) to a full fuel tank approx 70litres as you said it makes the old thing run smoothly & quieter must add it is the old mechanical type fuel pump.