Another begging email from CaRT

[cotswoldsman]

Whilst I support the idea of supporting the charity, I find it a little weak that the trust can recognise when weather has damaged the system and yet refuse to specify the times when they will not issue tickets to those that stay longer in one place due to the severe weather conditions.

 

I think they would garner more support from boaters if there was some give as well as take.

Yes I do see your point. I and a number of other CCers have been in contact with CRT to ask them to suspend enforcement during this weather but seem to be bashing our head on brick wall. Maybe after the 30 odd meetings and "tinkering dept." have all met we might get an answer some time in August. As I have said before does seem to be plenty of listening but not a lot of action.

[plainsman]

Yes I do see your point. I and a number of other CCers have been in contact with CRT to ask them to suspend enforcement during this weather but seem to be bashing our head on brick wall. Maybe after the 30 odd meetings and "tinkering dept." have all met we might get an answer some time in August. As I have said before does seem to be plenty of listening but not a lot of action.

 

Not in my experience. I anticipated difficulties and wrote to the local CRT well in advance, A prompt and very nice letter in return understanding my situation and allowing me extra time to 'overstay'.

[cotswoldsman]

 

Not in my experience. I anticipated difficulties and wrote to the local CRT well in advance, A prompt and very nice letter in return understanding my situation and allowing me extra time to 'overstay'.

so why not just announce "enforcement suspended for 7 days" and then review it weekly not all CCers know who to contact

 

Edited to say: Don't really want to go off topic my fault hehe

Edited February 16, 2014 by cotswoldsman

[carlt]

Goes to show that even you can be wrong call it nit picking if you wish

It was an emergency campaign with national coverage John.

 

I am not wrong, I merely hold a different opinion to yours.

[carlt]

 

Not in my experience. I anticipated difficulties and wrote to the local CRT well in advance, A prompt and very nice letter in return understanding my situation and allowing me extra time to 'overstay'.

Yes it is often easier and quicker to approach the local office as an individual than go through endless rounds of meetings and emails as various committees and organisations thrash out "policy".

[Wanted]

Yes it is often easier and quicker to approach the local office as an individual than go through endless rounds of meetings and emails as various committees and organisations thrash out "policy".

I think that whilst quicker and easier it allows for this constant disparity and interpretation that BW and now CRT seem to be stuck in. I think that for the money we pay the very least we should expect is a unified response for the customers.

[carlt]

I think that whilst quicker and easier it allows for this constant disparity and interpretation that BW and now CRT seem to be stuck in. I think that for the money we pay the very least we should expect is a unified response for the customers.

I think a unified response is all very well but, for the money we pay, I think that we should expect more than a "one size fits all" service.

 

Local managers having the authority to make decisions based on local conditions is far better than centralisation which is the usual way to save money by reducing services and distancing the customer from the service provider.

[Wanted]

I think a unified response is all very well but, for the money we pay, I think that we should expect more than a "one size fits all" service.

 

Local managers having the authority to make decisions based on local conditions is far better than centralisation which is the usual way to save money by reducing services and distancing the customer from the service provider.

Fair comment, I don't disagree with that providing the local bods have the required skill and resources to be able to make those calls, I am not convinced that we would have that level of fairness at present and can see opinion over skill happening.

[mayalld]

I do not have the cash to donate. But I give my time as a volunteer. Apparently, over the last 18 months or so, my time has been worth over £1600 ti CRT. SWMBO does the same so I do not feel the need to give cash.

 

In the charity world, volunteer time has a notional value, and one of the main drivers for that is to get match funding.

 

If a grant giving body is prepared to fund up to 50% of the cost of a project, but people are going to donate their labour, that labour must be accorded a notional value (which actually means that the 50% contribution may well pay for all the cash expenditure).

 

The problem comes in determining the real worth to an organisation of that voluntary labour. If they are doing a real job that needed to be done, and avoiding paying a salary, then it has real value.

 

If they are doing a job that didn't actually exist before, and that wouldn't be done unless a volunteer did it, then the real benefit is zero.

 

There are reasons why it makes sense for CRT to show a notional value of voluntary labour received, but as most of that voluntary labour is unnecessary volunteer lock keepers, and actually involves using paid staff time to train and manage them, the real benefit is negative.

[jelunga]

 

In the charity world, volunteer time has a notional value, and one of the main drivers for that is to get match funding.

 

If a grant giving body is prepared to fund up to 50% of the cost of a project, but people are going to donate their labour, that labour must be accorded a notional value (which actually means that the 50% contribution may well pay for all the cash expenditure).

 

The problem comes in determining the real worth to an organisation of that voluntary labour. If they are doing a real job that needed to be done, and avoiding paying a salary, then it has real value.

 

If they are doing a job that didn't actually exist before, and that wouldn't be done unless a volunteer did it, then the real benefit is zero.

 

There are reasons why it makes sense for CRT to show a notional value of voluntary labour received, but as most of that voluntary labour is unnecessary volunteer lock keepers, and actually involves using paid staff time to train and manage them, the real benefit is negative.

I could not disagree more with part of this.

 

In my area, East Midlands, we have several different volunteer groups.

There are the volunteer lock keepers, which is what My wife and I started as. During the "season" April to October, our VLKs relieve the seasonal lock keepers on rest days and holidays. This avoids taking the full time staff off their maintenance tasks to operate the powered locks on the Non tidal Trent. This year we are also going to try to man with VLKs Cranfleet Lock, manual lock, and Sawley Lock ( semi automatic powered lock). During the rest of the year some VLKs carry out the weekly maintenance checks at the powered locks again releiving full time staff of a lot of that work.

During the whole year there are Volunteer towpath rangers in some areas. They do things like litter picking, defect spotting and provide a presence for enquiries from the public. They are mainly on cabals adopted by Societies. There are also Towpath taskforce dvents where a small team of volunteers tackle a specific task.

For example recently a team tackled overgrown trees and bushes at the car park of Nether Lock in Newark. This was a task that would have fallen to me to do as a seasonal waterways operative. The volunteers also cut back and removed silt etc from an access road at Hazelford, litter picked along the banks of the Trent in Newark etc.

 

These are ALL jobs that would either have not veen done by full time CRT staff or would have taken CRT full time staff away from more technical maintenance work.

Ok, vokunteers are guven training, provided with basic uniforms and necessary PPE, sometimes by CRT staff, and sometimes tacking onto a course for full time CRT staff run by an outside contractor.

So how can the real benefit be negative?

[cotswoldsman]

 

In the charity world, volunteer time has a notional value, and one of the main drivers for that is to get match funding.

 

If a grant giving body is prepared to fund up to 50% of the cost of a project, but people are going to donate their labour, that labour must be accorded a notional value (which actually means that the 50% contribution may well pay for all the cash expenditure).

 

The problem comes in determining the real worth to an organisation of that voluntary labour. If they are doing a real job that needed to be done, and avoiding paying a salary, then it has real value.

 

If they are doing a job that didn't actually exist before, and that wouldn't be done unless a volunteer did it, then the real benefit is zero.

 

There are reasons why it makes sense for CRT to show a notional value of voluntary labour received, but as most of that voluntary labour is unnecessary volunteer lock keepers, and actually involves using paid staff time to train and manage them, the real benefit is negative.

Nothing like making a simple thing complicated!! Volunteer lock Keepers do provide a benefit especially for first timers on Hire Boats and I am sure save on potential damage. I know 2 volunteer lock keepers who having started on Locks are now very active during the winter months on other types of work for example they have just completely renovated part of a very muddy towpath at Rufford. There are many jobs that need doing that CRT might never get round to doing that make the canals a nicer experience for all. Where i am on the G&S volunteers have been cutting back on some of the trees and bushes along the towpath not essential maybe but better done before they get completely overgrown.

[Guest]

There are reasons why it makes sense for CRT to show a notional value of voluntary labour received, but as most of that voluntary labour is unnecessary volunteer lock keepers, and actually involves using paid staff time to train and manage them, the real benefit is negative.

 

I think you need to understand Dave that the role is not just about sitting around waiting for a boat to come along in order that you can lock them through.

 

VLK's do get involved in lots of other associated tasks (Read the role description) and do help with general maintenance tasks and tidy up projects. They are also there to be the 'face' of the Trust to the general public (and not just boaters) and help with general queries that might otherwise go unanswered for the want of somebody to speak to face to face.

 

I suspect your opinion of them remains affected by the one negative experience you state you had with one and you are not seeing the bigger picture of the value they can add.

 

 

ed to add link

Edited February 17, 2014 by The Dog House

[mayalld]

I could not disagree more with part of this.

 

In my area, East Midlands, we have several different volunteer groups.

There are the volunteer lock keepers, which is what My wife and I started as. During the "season" April to October, our VLKs relieve the seasonal lock keepers on rest days and holidays. This avoids taking the full time staff off their maintenance tasks to operate the powered locks on the Non tidal Trent. This year we are also going to try to man with VLKs Cranfleet Lock, manual lock, and Sawley Lock ( semi automatic powered lock). During the rest of the year some VLKs carry out the weekly maintenance checks at the powered locks again releiving full time staff of a lot of that work.

During the whole year there are Volunteer towpath rangers in some areas. They do things like litter picking, defect spotting and provide a presence for enquiries from the public. They are mainly on cabals adopted by Societies. There are also Towpath taskforce dvents where a small team of volunteers tackle a specific task.

For example recently a team tackled overgrown trees and bushes at the car park of Nether Lock in Newark. This was a task that would have fallen to me to do as a seasonal waterways operative. The volunteers also cut back and removed silt etc from an access road at Hazelford, litter picked along the banks of the Trent in Newark etc.

 

These are ALL jobs that would either have not veen done by full time CRT staff or would have taken CRT full time staff away from more technical maintenance work.

Ok, vokunteers are guven training, provided with basic uniforms and necessary PPE, sometimes by CRT staff, and sometimes tacking onto a course for full time CRT staff run by an outside contractor.

So how can the real benefit be negative?

 

You are disagreeing with things that I haven't said!

 

There are some tasks that volunteers do that are "real" jobs. They are things that given sufficient budget, an organisation would CHOOSE to employ staff to do. If yours is one, then well done, you have real value to the organisation.

 

There are other things that even if there was more money, it is very unlikely that the organisation would spend money on employees to do them.

 

Volunteer Lock Keepers (other than where they replace existing paid lockies) are a case in point.

 

In essence, CRT need to show that it has lots of volunteers, so it seeks volunteers to do the jobs that they think will be fun for volunteers, including some fun jobs that they invented for the purpose. It boosts their stats, but brings no real benefit in terms of avoiding paying people to do that job, and actually costs a certain amount of staff time to administer.

[cotswoldsman]

Surely the volunteer lock keepers are a case in point that if CRT had the money they would employ more lock keepers many are in places where there used to be lockkeepers

[carlt]

Surely the volunteer lock keepers are a case in point that if CRT had the money they would employ more lock keepers many are in places where there used to be lockkeepers

Indeed.

 

If one considers the number of flights that have a lock keeper's cottage next to it they were obviously once deemed an essential resource that had disappeared and is now making a comeback, albeit on a voluntary basis.

 

If they were considered important enough to employ and house them, in days when the boats were manned by professional, experienced boaters, surely they are even more necessary when there are greater numbers of amateur, inexperienced leisure boaters.

[jelunga]

 

You are disagreeing with things that I haven't said!

 

There are some tasks that volunteers do that are "real" jobs. They are things that given sufficient budget, an organisation would CHOOSE to employ staff to do. If yours is one, then well done, you have real value to the organisation.

 

There are other things that even if there was more money, it is very unlikely that the organisation would spend money on employees to do them.

 

Volunteer Lock Keepers (other than where they replace existing paid lockies) are a case in point.

 

In essence, CRT need to show that it has lots of volunteers, so it seeks volunteers to do the jobs that they think will be fun for volunteers, including some fun jobs that they invented for the purpose. It boosts their stats, but brings no real benefit in terms of avoiding paying people to do that job, and actually costs a certain amount of staff time to administer.

It must have been the way you saud it, because that was not the impression you made.

[David Schweizer]

Some people are crituicising Mave Mayall - Nothing wrong with that , but for the wrong reasons. He is actually correct about matched funding, something which I had to take into account when considering Grant Aid applictions from Voluntary Organizations.

 

When a funder is asked to make matched funding they will look at the work of volunteers, and place a financial value on that work, but they will consider whether the work needed to be done and whether it would otherwise be performed by a payed employee, they will also estimate how many people are needed to do the job, rather than the number actually doing it.

 

So two volunteers looking after Watford Flight might be considered to be otherwise payed jobs, six volunteers helping at Stoke Bruerne top lock might only be considered to be performing one otherwise payed job, whilst three people pulling the weeds out around a bench seat might not be seen as a job that would normally command the reqiuirement of a payed member of Staff.

 

Thats how it works, it is not the numbers that count, but the work they are doing, and the amount of time it might normally need if payed people were used.

Edited February 17, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Guest]

I appear to be in a minority of almost one on this issue. Can I assume from the responses that those people, who clearly disagree with me, are already dipping into their pockets to donate additional cash for CaRT?

I give what I can.

[alan_fincher]

I appear to be in a minority of almost one on this issue. Can I assume from the responses that those people, who clearly disagree with me, are already dipping into their pockets to donate additional cash for CaRT?

 

I am prepared to risk vilification by declaring myself as one who feels fairly uncomfortable with making voluntary donations of cash to CRT, even if it is for a fund that I would hope is ring-fenced for a stated and worthwhile purpose.

 

Clearly, I accept that the recent storms will have caused all sorts of unfortunate problems on CRT waterways, and clearly I accept that CRT already struggles to fund a full maintenance and repair program.

 

My difficulty is that I feel very strongly that CRT continues to spend a lot of money unwisely on things I consider totally unimportant, and often downright stupid, whilst not having enough to spend on the things that clearly are important.

 

I would undoubtedly feel far more willing to donate voluntarily to good causes, if it were possible to stop the very significant spend on areas where I feel it is completely misjudged. It will take an awful lot of us dipping our hands in our pockets at £25 a shot, (or whatever we feel we want to give), to match the kinds of level of "discretionary" CRT spend I am talking about.

 

So, right now, I am unlikely to contribute, I think, but will continue to campaign hard to anybody in CRT that will listen as to how I think they can claw back a lot of money that is currently spent on poor ideas, and which could be used for practical maintenance and repairs, whether caused by bad weather, or indeed anything else. If we got to "a better place" on that, then I think I would take more kindly for requests for extra voluntary contributions to their funding.

 

I do appreciate many other people will not see it that way, though.

[Jerra]

I do appreciate many other people will not see it that way, though.

What I wonder is where will the required funds come from while you are campaigning.

[alan_fincher]

What I wonder is where will the required funds come from while you are campaigning.

 

I can't answer that, but undoubtedly their rate of spend on some ill advised initiatives far outstrips the rate that they are likely to be receiving money by voluntary donation.

 

So wouldn't it be wonderful if we could stop the unnecessary spend, and then add the money saved to anything else they are able to raise by appeal?

[Tuscan]

Don't disagree with some of the points Alan makes. However I think the damage likely to have been done over the recent weeks by the storms transcends waterways politics (hopefully not just on the canals!!).

 

Whilst there are initiatives that CRT does that I struggle with there is much that is good and I am happy to donate on this specific occasion. I believe that you can campaign for change as well as showing you care.

[alan_fincher]

I believe that you can campaign for change as well as showing you care.

I believe though that it is also wrong to assume that someone who doesn't donate doesn't care!

[Leo No2]

 

I am prepared to risk vilification by declaring myself as one who feels fairly uncomfortable with making voluntary donations of cash to CRT, even if it is for a fund that I would hope is ring-fenced for a stated and worthwhile purpose.

 

Clearly, I accept that the recent storms will have caused all sorts of unfortunate problems on CRT waterways, and clearly I accept that CRT already struggles to fund a full maintenance and repair program.

 

My difficulty is that I feel very strongly that CRT continues to spend a lot of money unwisely on things I consider totally unimportant, and often downright stupid, whilst not having enough to spend on the things that clearly are important.

 

I would undoubtedly feel far more willing to donate voluntarily to good causes, if it were possible to stop the very significant spend on areas where I feel it is completely misjudged. It will take an awful lot of us dipping our hands in our pockets at £25 a shot, (or whatever we feel we want to give), to match the kinds of level of "discretionary" CRT spend I am talking about.

 

So, right now, I am unlikely to contribute, I think, but will continue to campaign hard to anybody in CRT that will listen as to how I think they can claw back a lot of money that is currently spent on poor ideas, and which could be used for practical maintenance and repairs, whether caused by bad weather, or indeed anything else. If we got to "a better place" on that, then I think I would take more kindly for requests for extra voluntary contributions to their funding.

 

I do appreciate many other people will not see it that way, though.

Alan - I agree with you. I have just come across this - posted before the 'crisis' but it strikes me as being something that could be withdrawn in the light of events: (I believe the cost of the whole project is £210K - if you believe NBW.)

 

 

Unsightly graffiti blights towns and cities across the world but one group in Birmingham is fighting back, with a new urban art project along one of the city’s famous canals. Backed by voluntary donations from local people and businesses, the Canal & River Trust and The Bond Company are today [Tuesday 28 January 2014] unveiling a new piece of graffiti art along the Grand Union Canal in Digbeth.

The new mural is part of the Heartlands Canal Ring project which aims to connect communities with the waterways. Thought up by the Bond Company artist in residence, Paul Hirst, his idea was to create a new and interesting piece of artwork along a 150-foot stretch of wall that had been targeted by vandals. The area is regularly covered in unsightly graffiti making the canal look unloved and unwelcoming.

Taking several weeks to complete, the project was only made possible thanks to the generous donations from members of the public and the businesses based at the Bond who raised the £5,000 needed to make the project happen.

The final design was painted by local artist Graffiti 4 Hire and the new mural is meant to represent life along the waterways whilst highlighting its special link with local communities and well known landmarks in and around Birmingham.

Peter Mathews CMG, chair of the West Midlands waterways partnership for the Canal & River Trust, said: “For too long this stretch of waterway has been underused by local people and we really want to change that. The Heartlands Canal Ring project aims to show people how wonderful the canals can be and how lucky we are to have them right on our doorstep.

“Over the last few years we have been beavering away at trying to get the community to become more involved with their local waterways. The graffiti project at the Bond has been one of the highlights of this project so far and really brightens up this stretch of canal and we’re all really pleased with the end result.”

Paul Hirst, artist in residence at the Bond Company, said: “Our business and events centre sits right next to the canal and directly opposite the wall and it has really been depressing to see the decline of this area with graffiti tags and random scribbles appearing week after week. I am delighted that my ideas and concept have reached fruition and transformed this stretch of the canal into something we can all enjoy.

“It is great to feel that I have made a difference and I look forward to spending a lot more time exploring the local canal and seeing what else I can discover and gain inspiration from.”

The Heartlands Canal Ring Project is a unique initiative in the heart of Birmingham aimed at connecting communities with their local canal in fresh and interesting ways. It seeks to explore the potential of the area’s waterways to benefit local residents and contribute to the health, safety and wellbeing of the wider community. The project links the communities in the four wards of Nechells, Saltley, Washwood Heath and Sparkbrook.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Leo No2

[Jerra]

I believe though that it is also wrong to assume that someone who doesn't donate doesn't care!

I would totally agree.