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Shad's Relaunch


Tiggers

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I commented on the state of the hull, because the hull is what keeps the boat afloat.I did not critisise, or put down the rest of the work, just pointed out that the hull needed blacking, urgently, judging by the state of the waterline.

 

And the BCN plate looks out of place. As far as I am aware (and I'm no expert, but did own the front end of a 115 year old BCN boat, and spoke about it with Malcolm Braine when he surveyed my boat), the BCN plate was mounted to the forward bulkhead, not on the cabin bulkhead. Where it is on Shad, looks like an ornament..

 

If you think this is unfair nit-picking, you should try showing a scale model you made on a modelling website... arguments about the correct shade of paint of WW II vehicles are never ending..

Like I said, she was docked and blacked last year, but she is used regularly, hence the wear. Unfortunately because our bostocks are in a short pound between wide locks, we have to have some work done to ensure they're safe. It certainly isn't 'urgent' though Edited by Tiggers
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Tiggers, as I said elsewhere, I think she looks great, and think you're all doing a great job up there. Do all you can to keep these craft going, and as many craft as you can. Who knows, one day when you have your own yard, I'll come and work for you! Be proud of this, some will always criticise, thats a fact of life, but rise above it.... oh, and I like the blue!

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For somebody who thinks the boat is inacurate, and should be 101% historically accurate today but was refusing to re-unite the boats original BCN plate a couple of months ago is an arse hole, in my personal opinion.

 

SHAD looks really well. Well done to all the team.

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For somebody who thinks the boat is inacurate, and should be 101% historically accurate today but was refusing to re-unite the boats original BCN plate a couple of months ago is an arse hole, in my personal opinion.

 

SHAD looks really well. Well done to all the team.

 

Yes - I stumbled across that thread whilst looking for more pictures of Shad, interesting isn't it?

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=60322&page=1#

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That is a real shame Tiggers but reading some of the pathetic comments that have been posted in this thread perfectly understandable.

 

It's one thing being a bit of a 'restoration anorak' and liking to see things restored as carbon copies (which is no doubt what will be used as justification) but quite another to diminish some ones hard work just to grandstand and showcase your 'superior' knowledge of a subject.

 

Totally and utterly pathetic.

 

As some of us have said It looks superb, don't be put off by a few comments from those that clearly are so up themselves that they felt the need to say what they did.

Seconded what he says, plus the others in your support.

I also support Tiggers comment re bullies - I don't think they intend to bully, but some of them are, intentionally or not, quite intimidating. There was no need for the criticism they made, so perhaps they could volunteer their services for blacking - then we could decide if it was a crap job or not - or perhaps just compliment them on their efforts instead.

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Differences in paint composition of today and of that mythical time of " back then" would surely make complete mimicry of an old paint job nigh on impossible anyway; not to mention that the boat is now in a different job - she's now an advert for the museum and for the skills of those who worked on her, not just a floating HGV.

 

I reckon a big well done is in order :D (even if you have pinched my favoured scheme back ;))

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To say that the negative comments are bullying is nonsense in my opinion.

 

What they actually are is statements that the OP did not want to hear.

 

Fair enough the reference to the blue paint was frank, straightforward, blunt, perhaps and probably could have been phrased in a less critical, more sensitive way.

 

 

But that is a long long way from bullying.

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Sometimes I don't know why I bother trying to share good news. Shad was docked last year, an is coming out again soon as soon as we have the all clear on our bostocks. The colours we got from Tony Lewrey and also looking at mendips original doors, and that's was the only place we could put the bcn plate due to the diesel tanks. And I believe David was contacted.

Think this will be all from me on this website, I was so proud when she was done being the first boat I've worked on, and it just gets ruined by people pulling it to bits

And we also have pictures of shad clearly showing the registration number is on black. And if that pic was taken at the end of their days Lawrence's, it's likely the red would've faded, as reds do.

There was a good couple of weeks consultation over the colours, finding original parts of Anderton boats, speaking with tony and Phil Speight. I trust them over a picture

 

Tiggers,

 

Please don't go. Like others I was astonished by the tone of Laurence's post, which I am quite sure doesn't match the optinion of most of us here. The photos you have posted are a credit to those of you who have done this work, and do help to get out the message that the museum is turning a corner after the rather dark times of recent years.

 

Of course the paintwork looks glossy now - it is newly painted. That look will fade with the passage of time and the inevitable scrapes and scratches of boating. (And then someone else will pop up and say that the museum's exhibits are looking scruffy!)

 

No restoration can be 100% correct - not least because the records and recollections of how it looked at an earlier time are incomplete or imperfect, and the precise original detailing is unknowable. If 100% authenticity is your goal, then arguably Shad should be in red/green FMC colours, and not in the Anderton livery anyway!

 

So ignore the critics, and be proud of what has been achieved!

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Thank you everyone who has passed on kind words, whether it be on this topic or privately. I just get bored of bullies, it ruins this forum which is a shame

 

Whilst I think your efforts are to be encouraged, don't you think you're taking this a wee bit hard? I imagined you to be made of sterner stuff. "Bullies"? Oh please! What, because some old grouch says he thinks the paint's the wrong shade, or someone else reckons the old girl hasn't been blacked properly? Do you really think that someone merely voicing, however grumpily, a personal opinion about something as trivial as these things constitutes bullying and "ruins this forum"? Come on, rise above it.

I know what what old Ken Keay would have said if someone had told him the red was the wrong shade.

Edited by johnthebridge
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No restoration can be 100% correct - not least because the records and recollections of how it looked at an earlier time are incomplete or imperfect, and the precise original detailing is unknowable. If 100% authenticity is your goal, then arguably Shad should be in red/green FMC colours, and not in the Anderton livery anyway!

 

 

No, I'd favour Willow Wren North-West fleet 'livery', which was sometimes just BW colours with 'British Waterways' painted out although I'm fairly sure that the Shad was green, complete with Fred Gibbs's rain shed wink.png

 

ShadetcSale-5_zps8f3035cd.gif

 

 

Tim

 

..and yes I do agree that they should be proud of their work. It's far easier to pick holes in what others have done, than to do the job yourself.

Edited by Timleech
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To say that the negative comments are bullying is nonsense in my opinion.

 

What they actually are is statements that the OP did not want to hear.

 

Fair enough the reference to the blue paint was frank, straightforward, blunt, perhaps and probably could have been phrased in a less critical, more sensitive way.

 

 

But that is a long long way from bullying.

 

I agree with that statement 100%. As one who is not afraid of speaking quite plainly and with frankness on here that is not the same as bullying (though people do sometimes construe such frankness and plain speaking as such).

 

My issue with the criticism is that it felt very much as if the OP was being slapped down after coming on with her OP clearly exuding much pride in what she and her colleagues had achieved and was very keen to show it off in the the most popular waterways related forum on t'internet.

 

Reading LH's post in particular I could almost feel personally how deflated she and the others must have felt after such a post from somebody who I understand to be very knowledgeable about historic boats and somebody who is usually regarded as 'knowing what he is talking about'.

 

His observations about the shades may indeed be spot on, though personally I actually remain unconvinced despite his purported knowledge, not at all that I feel the need to be convinced I am just happy to see an old boat brought back to such wonderful condition and looking almost identical to how it did during it's working years, but then I am just a part time leisure boater so perhaps what I think is not important.

 

Sometimes there is a way to say things when you want to criticise something that somebody has spent 4 months achieving and there is also a means, I understand historical accuracy is important along with getting things like inviting relevant people to 'launches' but I do think it could have been brought to TG's attention outwith the public part of the forum and whilst it wasn't 'bullying' her it did have the potential to embarrass her and her colleagues in public and that was unnecessary.

 

My last word on the matter.

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Congratulations to all involved, Shad is looking splendid.

 

I have researched the colours used by ACCCo for a little project I am involved with. All colour pictures I have seen of ACCC boats have the registration number painted in white on black. The red is definitely as bright as on Shad now and the blue looks right too. The shape painted on the back of the cabin varies from boat to boat, so Shad is right there too.

 

Lovely to see another boat in Anderton livery.

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I really don't give a flying fischbach whether the red is correct or whether it should historically have been sky blue pink with yellow dots on. If I had managed to make my boat look even half as resplendent as Shad does I would be justifiably proud. So it may not be perfect. What boat (or person) is?

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I really don't give a flying fischbach whether the red is correct or whether it should historically have been sky blue pink with yellow dots on. If I had managed to make my boat look even half as resplendent as Shad does I would be justifiably proud. So it may not be perfect. What boat (or person) is?

 

As it's a museum exhibit, it's right to try to be accurate and it seems to me that they have indeed tried, as much as anyone could reasonably expect.

 

Tim

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My first concern would be the hull. Could do with a bit of blacking...

 

and is that where the BCN plate would be mounted?

The BCN plate is in the correct position for the boat in Anderton days. Some Joshers had the BCN plates mounted on the cabin sides at the stern end of the lower cabin panel surround as can be seen in this intriguing picture of "Dory".

 

gallery_5000_522_124697.jpg

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Have they fitted a weedhatch?

 

Personally I think that, on past performance, the fact that they are doing good quality work to keep the boats afloat is far more important than whether the paint is the perfect colour.

 

Colour is always a matter of opinion and conjecture (no point asking me, I'm colourblind) and, let's be honest, even the oldest of us have faded memories of faded paintwork.

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The bullying I was referring to wasn't solely to do with this feed, or even just myself. Nearly every time I have even made a passing comment about the museums achievements, it seems to bring around the most vile responses from certain people. Similarly, I have seen this directed at others as well, a prime example was when one forum member was asking for advice on an historic boat as they had exhausted all their knowledge and the response they got was horrendous. I would be interested to see if they would be that horrible face to face. And yes, I am made of stronger stuff, and if some of the comments were made to my face, I doubt my response would be just in words. But then again, I don't lower myself to petty nit picking and bullying online, I have quite a lot of opinions on certain boats, but I wouldn't air them on a public forum, particularly not if I was biased or someone was trying to spread good news.

One of the main things people have complained about recently is the lack of info on what is happening at the museum, can you really blame them when this is the response they get.

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The BCN plate is in the correct position for the boat in Anderton days. Some Joshers had the BCN plates mounted on the cabin sides at the stern end of the lower cabin panel surround as can be seen in this intriguing picture of "Dory".

 

gallery_5000_522_124697.jpg

I stand corrected.

Thanks Laurence, always good to learn something new.

 

And Tigger, next time you quote my post, you can include the positive bits of it too. I don't just knock for the sake off..

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note the p/health registration is not on a black background and the red is not a bright shade:

Whereas everybody knows that it should look like thissmile.png

(He says hoping the link to the pic works because Imagesgack won't let me in any more - something about paying for their service!)

"http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/94qnb.jpg"

Oh well - nearly - if the pic is not there, click on the above please......

Edited by canalchef
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This is a press release from May 18th 2007 re Shad and its sponsorship by David Suchet. What I would like to know is what they spent his money on if the boat was allowed to deteriorate to the condition of needing its recent restoration? Surely in 7 years with a yearly sponsorship this should not have happened?

 

David Suchet supports the National Waterways Museum with historic

narrowboat sponsorship

 

Distinguished actor and Vice-President of The Waterways Trust, David

Suchet is helping to keep a piece of waterways history alive by

sponsoring a historic narrowboat.

 

A keen waterways user, David has spent many years travelling the

nation's canals and rivers. Fascinated by the rich heritage of our

waterways, David is demonstrating his passion and commitment through

sponsorship of a craft from the historic boat collection.

 

David has selected the historic narrowboat Shad which is part of the

national inland waterways collection and is housed at the National

Waterways Museum Ellesmere Port (formerly the Boat Museum).

 

Roger Hanbury, Chief Executive of The Waterways Trust, said: "We are

most grateful to David for sponsoring one of the historic boats. We

are constantly looking for different ways to raise funds to help with

restoration and maintenance of the historic boat collection and boat

sponsorship is one such approach."

 

In addition to ensuring necessary maintenance and conservation work

can continue on the craft, David will use the narrowboat on trips

around the waterways network, thereby helping to open up access to

the inland waterways collection.

 

David said: "I am delighted to be able to play my part in helping to

both conserve bring alive the priceless history of our waterways. I

hope more people will be encouraged to join with me and sponsor other

crafts in the historic boat collection thus ensuring their survival

for future generations to enjoy."

 

Roger added: "We are committed to opening up access to our collection

and with David taking Shad out on the waterways network, casual

waterway and towpath users will be able to see the type of craft that

used to work on our canals in the early 1900s"

 

The Waterways Trust is happy to consider sponsorship requests from

anyone interested in helping to keep our waterways heritage alive. To

find out more about the opportunities available call 0151 355 5017.

 

Shad was built in 1936 in Northwich and fitted out in Saltley,

Birmingham. With a composite construction (iron sides and elm bottom)

she spent her working life carrying cargoes of coal or timber between

Wolverhampton, Ellesmere Port, Manchester and Nottingham as part of

Fellows, Morton and Clayton's Northern Fleet.

 

With the increase of road haulage, use of the waterways for cargo

transportation died out and Shad was `retired' in 1971.

 

The Waterways Trust is currently campaigning to Government to secure

funding for the National Waterways Museum, which includes the

historic boat collection. Further information on the campaign can be

found at www.thewaterwaystrust.org.uk

 

- Ends -

 

Press Enquiries

Justine Lee

Communications Manager

The Waterways Trust

Tel: 01452 318213 / 07917 804550

Email: justine.lee@thewaterwaystrust.org.uk

 

Notes to Editors

Image caption: David Suchet takes the helm at Shad when he visited

the National Waterways Museum Ellesmere Port last year.

 

The Waterways Trust is a national charity working to promote greater

public enjoyment of the UK's waterways by raising funds for waterway

restoration, conservation, recreation and education. The nationally

important Designated inland waterway collection in our three museums

at Gloucester, Ellesmere Port and Stoke Bruerne, together with the

Waterways Archive, brings the history of the waterways alive for

everyone.

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I stand corrected.

Thanks Laurence, always good to learn something new.

 

And Tigger, next time you quote my post, you can include the positive bits of it too. I don't just knock for the sake off..

I am sorry, I just wanted to reply to the points you made. I was very appreciative of the other comments you made and I certain was not referring to you as a bully. I understand your comments were purely due to a lack of knowledge

This is a press release from May 18th 2007 re Shad and its sponsorship by David Suchet. What I would like to know is what they spent his money on if the boat was allowed to deteriorate to the condition of needing its recent restoration? Surely in 7 years with a yearly sponsorship this should not have happened?

 

David Suchet supports the National Waterways Museum with historic

narrowboat sponsorship

 

Distinguished actor and Vice-President of The Waterways Trust, David

Suchet is helping to keep a piece of waterways history alive by

sponsoring a historic narrowboat.

 

A keen waterways user, David has spent many years travelling the

nation's canals and rivers. Fascinated by the rich heritage of our

waterways, David is demonstrating his passion and commitment through

sponsorship of a craft from the historic boat collection.

 

David has selected the historic narrowboat Shad which is part of the

national inland waterways collection and is housed at the National

Waterways Museum Ellesmere Port (formerly the Boat Museum).

 

Roger Hanbury, Chief Executive of The Waterways Trust, said: "We are

most grateful to David for sponsoring one of the historic boats. We

are constantly looking for different ways to raise funds to help with

restoration and maintenance of the historic boat collection and boat

sponsorship is one such approach."

 

In addition to ensuring necessary maintenance and conservation work

can continue on the craft, David will use the narrowboat on trips

around the waterways network, thereby helping to open up access to

the inland waterways collection.

 

David said: "I am delighted to be able to play my part in helping to

both conserve bring alive the priceless history of our waterways. I

hope more people will be encouraged to join with me and sponsor other

crafts in the historic boat collection thus ensuring their survival

for future generations to enjoy."

 

Roger added: "We are committed to opening up access to our collection

and with David taking Shad out on the waterways network, casual

waterway and towpath users will be able to see the type of craft that

used to work on our canals in the early 1900s"

 

The Waterways Trust is happy to consider sponsorship requests from

anyone interested in helping to keep our waterways heritage alive. To

find out more about the opportunities available call 0151 355 5017.

 

Shad was built in 1936 in Northwich and fitted out in Saltley,

Birmingham. With a composite construction (iron sides and elm bottom)

she spent her working life carrying cargoes of coal or timber between

Wolverhampton, Ellesmere Port, Manchester and Nottingham as part of

Fellows, Morton and Clayton's Northern Fleet.

 

With the increase of road haulage, use of the waterways for cargo

transportation died out and Shad was `retired' in 1971.

 

The Waterways Trust is currently campaigning to Government to secure

funding for the National Waterways Museum, which includes the

historic boat collection. Further information on the campaign can be

found at www.thewaterwaystrust.org.uk

 

- Ends -

 

Press Enquiries

Justine Lee

Communications Manager

The Waterways Trust

Tel: 01452 318213 / 07917 804550

Email: justine.lee@thewaterwaystrust.org.uk

 

Notes to Editors

Image caption: David Suchet takes the helm at Shad when he visited

the National Waterways Museum Ellesmere Port last year.

 

The Waterways Trust is a national charity working to promote greater

public enjoyment of the UK's waterways by raising funds for waterway

restoration, conservation, recreation and education. The nationally

important Designated inland waterway collection in our three museums

at Gloucester, Ellesmere Port and Stoke Bruerne, together with the

Waterways Archive, brings the history of the waterways alive for

everyone.

She was completely rebottomed, gunwales and panelling was replaced on the sb side (we have just done the port side) so we have just used the remaining money to do what we have done. Baring in mind she is completely composite (wooden bottom and cabin) it can be an expensive job

The gunwales, mast, stands, running gear etc have all been replaced over the past couple of years

Edited by Tiggers
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I am sorry, I just wanted to reply to the points you made. I was very appreciative of the other comments you made and I certain was not referring to you as a bully. I understand your comments were purely due to a lack of knowledge

 

She was rebottomed up to the engine ole, gunwales and panelling was replaced on the sb side (we have just done the port side) so we have just used the remaining money to do what we have done.

No offence taken, and its always good to learn something new. And without discussing what we know (or think we know... :wink: ), we would never expand our knowledge.

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