Jump to content

Featured Posts

So, as you may know, I have a new boat!

 

New boat - new surprises....

 

Yesterday was our first day on board and we spent it removing sodden rotten furniture and flooring from the aft cabin.

 

It started by lifting the mattress, few spots of mould on the ply below. So, with the mattress removed to the well deck I lifted the ply, more mould in the drawers below that. Drawers were stuck solid (when we viewed the boat I took them to be painted shut - doh! Learning experience) they were MDF, and had expanded to fill their holes completely... Quickly after this I was screwing and sawing and using my trusty adjustable spanner (hammer) to get as far in to the mess as I could and see what was going on.

 

When I reached what was left of the floor beneath it all I found water, bubbling up between the pieces of composite board that weren't turned to soil. We removed enough scrap wood (soil) to completely fill the back of my estate car (and weigh heavily on it's suspension) and we pumped about 15 bucket loads of water out of them there bilges.

 

Along the way I was of course hunting for the source of the water. It didn't seem to be in the bathroom or kitchen (from surface looking at least, and all pipe work was reasonably easy to view, either running exposed or at the back of kitchen cupboards. I couldn't see right behind the bath, but it looked dry at least... Chief culprit seemed likely to be the water tank, which runs across the boat immediately forward of the engine (it's a trad stern, which had a fixed crossbed, and no access to the engine room) But, upon excavation nothing seemed to be leaking from the water tank either.

 

However, I removed some of the panels in the wall between what was the bedroom (now closer resembles a green house, with hydroponic system in place on the floor) and the engine bay, to try and get to the back of the water tank, I found myself looking straight down at the engine. I had expected (mostly from reading on this forum) to find a metal bulkhead separating the engine and cabin bilges, which I had assumed to be 2' or 3' high (probably running up to the forward end of the floor boards which are places over the engine....) However, what I found was a 20cm lip, forming the edge of the engine oil drip tray (and the same height as the steel forming this tray on the other three sides of the engine, and running off to each side of the boat.

 

So, I think I found where the water was coming in. The boat has a manually switched bilge pump in the engine bay, and the survey suggested that the stern gland is not in top condition. The previous owners were less than responsible, and he actually admitted to me that he only started the engine once in the four years they owned the boat - given this, I doubt they pumped out the bilges, or even checked them, very often if at all.

 

Now, I am not just writing all of this to relay my tale to you all, (though that is part of the reason, and I hope you are enjoying it), I would like some advice on how best to proceed.

 

Current situation:

 

Floor completely removed for about 10' forward of engine bay "bulkhead".

All floor that I have now reached is good - I am unable to proceed just digging with an adjustable spanner, proper tools like a saw will be required to go further.

There is a logical stop point on the far side of the bathroom, about 3' further along the boat, I will cut floor to here, and hopefully find everything forward of this point is OK.

 

Floor in living area has decent wood laminate on top. I do not want to remove this if I don't have to.

Floor in kitchen has a kitchen on top. As above don't want to remove if I don't have to.

One section below sofa in living area allows for inspection to under floor level (not bilges) and reveals no sign of rot. I will cut or drill here to gain access to bilge to aid with assessment.

I may be able to gain access to bilge in small locker below the well deck.

 

All the bilges that I have opened so far (in the aft end of the boat) were full of water. They are unsurprisingly very dirty and rusty. I intend to clean, rust treat (owatrol?) and paint, before applying new floor (marine ply?) with insulation and damp membrane.

 

With my current course of action I wont be able to access the bilges forward of the bathroom (middle of boat). While I am fairly confident that the floor here is OK, the bilges will have been wet, and there will almost certainly be rust going on...

 

I am in the process of sourcing a dehumidifier I can take with me back to the boat on Wednesday. I will be on board full time working on this (and hopefully get as far as fitting some sort of bed!) for a week and a half following.

 

What I'd like to know:

 

Best way to clean back rust.

Best way treat the steel.

Which paint to use in the bilges.

How far should I go?

How to insulate under the floor.

What about a damp proof membrane?

What about best construction methods? - batten on top of steel 'rib'? Glue/self tapped?

 

I know there have been posts before, but I just hunted around and couldn't find much which covered most of the above, please feel free to point me to other threads, or just tell me what keywords you think I should be searching.

 

Many thanks!

 

BTW: The irony of my boats name has not escaped me.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, as you may know, I have a new boat!

 

New boat - new surprises....

 

Yesterday was our first day on board and we spent it removing sodden rotten furniture and flooring from the aft cabin.

 

 

I do feel sorry for you, but this post should be compulsory viewing for all buyers of their "dream boat"! GET A SURVEY before you get a boat! Of course the previous owner was responsible!! I hope you did at least get it at a price which took account of all these woes.

 

Hopefully someone will come on now with help for your problems though.

Edited by Tam & Di
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I do feel sorry for you, but this post should be compulsory viewing for all buyers of their "dream boat"! GET A SURVEY before you get a boat! Of course the previous owner was responsible!! I hope you did at least get it at a price which took account of all these woes.

 

Hopefully someone will come on now with help for your problems though.

 

 

We did get a hull and machinery survey, and we thought long and hard about having a full survey (and made the wrong decision!)

 

Price was still right though, and we are really happy with her. Even last night, in the howling wind, carrying stinky rotten wood along the pontoon and getting stuck with nails as we loaded the car, we were both really happy!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that now you have cleared all the horrors out you may well find that it will dry out and start looking a whole lot better, what a dispiriting start - but to the problems in hand, I would scrape and wire brush wherever you can get to rusty steel then prime with red oxide and paint with bituminous water tank paint., I am not sure about underfloor insulation, I have never done it and I doubt if it helps. Batten on top of `rib`, yes I would. Damp proof membrane, personally, no. you need all the ventilation you can get under the floor and that is not easy, all you can really do is to try to keep the bilge as dry as poss. All the low down dark musty corners of the boat need to be as open to the air as you can manage to keep condensation down as much as poss. Others will have their own experiences. Good Luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom,

 

Sorry to hear of your problems. I would be happy to wander down to have a look at your problems and possibly have a few answers to your queries - what about Thursday evening? I'm only 10mins away from Pillings. PM if you want me to.

 

You are doing the right thing by getting rid of the rotten timber. The hull will need drying out - rust will then need scraping and wire brushing before treating with Owatrol or similar.

Is there any ballast in this area?

The floor will need replacing with good quality ply (not B&Q) which you can then cover with something nice.

The bilge will need ventilating and access hatch built in.

 

Hope that this helps.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm surprised that the surveyor didnt mention (at least in passing) that he thought the floor may be rotten and the hull full of water

 

Me too, sort of... but it was all very well concealed behind fitted furniture and he had no cause to go inside. The boat was lifted out for blacking before he got there, and not dropped back in until after he had left, so I don't see when he would have chance to realise the bilge was full of water. I am certainly not casting any blame in his direction.

 

I have also spoken to him since, and he has been very helpful...

Tom,

 

Sorry to hear of your problems. I would be happy to wander down to have a look at your problems and possibly have a few answers to your queries - what about Thursday evening? I'm only 10mins away from Pillings. PM if you want me to.

 

You are doing the right thing by getting rid of the rotten timber. The hull will need drying out - rust will then need scraping and wire brushing before treating with Owatrol or similar.

Is there any ballast in this area?

The floor will need replacing with good quality ply (not B&Q) which you can then cover with something nice.

The bilge will need ventilating and access hatch built in.

 

Hope that this helps.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

Hi Richard,

 

Would be great if you wanted to come down! Will PM you contact details etc.

 

Yes there is some ballast, but I think I have cleared enough to temporarily lift it out (it's a mix of concrete slabs and bricks), most of the worst affected sections were empty. Yes, good quality marine ply for my floor, and nothing less!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Me too, sort of... but it was all very well concealed behind fitted furniture and he had no cause to go inside. The boat was lifted out for blacking before he got there, and not dropped back in until after he had left, so I don't see when he would have chance to realise the bilge was full of water. I am certainly not casting any blame in his direction.

 

I have also spoken to him since, and he has been very helpful...

 

Hi Richard,

 

Would be great if you wanted to come down! Will PM you contact details etc.

 

Yes there is some ballast, but I think I have cleared enough to temporarily lift it out (it's a mix of concrete slabs and bricks), most of the worst affected sections were empty. Yes, good quality marine ply for my floor, and nothing less!

Before you put down the new ply do paint it with something nicely waterproof, especially along any cut edges. Even marine ply needs a helping hand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is this a Harborough boat, which were often built with wet bilges

 

Richard

 

Tom says it is a "trad" sterned boat, and I don't think Harborough built much beside "cruisers" did they?

 

I think some pictures would really help in terms of people being able to offer advice.

 

I must admit I have not completely fallen in with the arrangements for a water tank "immediately in front of the engine", which sounds a bit unusual.

 

I'm sure Tom can work out the the difference, but can we just check it is a fresh water tank in that location, rather than a pump out one?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before you put down the new ply do paint it with something nicely waterproof, especially along any cut edges. Even marine ply needs a helping hand.

Yes! Good tip, thanks. What should i aim for (as in type of paint)? There is a good collection of tins wedged in the gas locker up forward.

 

Incidentally is that normal, and all OK? To store stuff in the gas locker around the bottles there? There is some extra space but at the moment it is all knocking around and could easily interfere with the pipes and valves out of the bottles...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Tom says it is a "trad" sterned boat, and I don't think Harborough built much beside "cruisers" did they?

 

I think some pictures would really help in terms of people being able to offer advice.

 

I must admit I have not completely fallen in with the arrangements for a water tank "immediately in front of the engine", which sounds a bit unusual.

 

I'm sure Tom can work out the the difference, but can we just check it is a fresh water tank in that location, rather than a pump out one?

 

 

It's a David Newbury build.

 

It is certainly not supposed to be a wet bilge, the bulkhead (or 20cm flatbar as I prefer to call it) between engine bay and rear cabin bilge is well sealed.

 

It is a secondary fresh water tank. I am not quite sure of the arrangement myself. The way it has been described to me, in a document the previous owner gave me with the boat, is that the rear fresh water tank feeds hot water heater and washing machine, while the primary (bow) water tank feeds the cold water system. Don't see the point myself except for added capacity. I am going to check the capacity on the bow tank, and if it seems sufficient may well do away with the aft tank altogether.

 

Photos, yeah... I'll see what I can do to post some (not very good taken on my phone).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes! Good tip, thanks. What should i aim for (as in type of paint)? There is a good collection of tins wedged in the gas locker up forward.

 

Incidentally is that normal, and all OK? To store stuff in the gas locker around the bottles there? There is some extra space but at the moment it is all knocking around and could easily interfere with the pipes and valves out of the bottles...

I have a feeling that for BSS purposes there should be nothing else in the gas locker other than gas bottles. Most people do however use gas lockers as handy storage places. just take everything out before the next BSS inspection. To seal edges of marine ply I have used bitumen in the past, but there are probably other better products around

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Underfloor insulation is always good my friend John did it to his and the floor is warmer smile.png

 

Peter

 

Great! I will definitely do it then, this is bedroom and bathroom floor (read cold feet when popping to the loo in the night), and is the end of the boat furthest from the stove.

 

Do you know what he used? Was it attached to the underside of the flooring? Or floating in the bilge? Hehehe - It really could float in my bilge.

I have a feeling that for BSS purposes there should be nothing else in the gas locker other than gas bottles. Most people do however use gas lockers as handy storage places. just take everything out before the next BSS inspection. To seal edges of marine ply I have used bitumen in the past, but there are probably other better products around

.

 

Interesting. Just got a brand new BSSC. Pretty sure there was no one else around to take the tins out, or the collection of old rope and broken fenders on top of the bottles... I think I may partition off a separate compartment in there and just use that, if it's making me uncomfortable it can't be a good idea, can it.

 

Fix the bilges first though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, bilges looking aft. Most of the water gone by this point... Very good manual bilge pump you see at the top of the pic.

 

Boat12_zpsd106df74.jpg

 

Same view, different angle

 

Boat13_zpsdf08a38d.jpg

 

Then looking forward, entrance to bathroom on right, and you can just see stove in living space at top.

 

The chipboard flooring gets too tough to prize apart with our fingers round about where we left it (we arrived on board with very few tools, most of the demolition was done with an adjustable spanner and a fire poker.)

 

Boat14_zps54f20dd7.jpg

 

This one was earlier on (the set of shelves to the left later got the adjustable spanner treatment) the grey on the left of this pic is the water tank.

 

Boat10_zps4b26c23e.jpg

 

Same earlier time period, looking aft at tank.

 

Boat09_zps6032fec3.jpg

 

Bilge before pumping (with serious list to the other side, which I think was water based, because today she seemed level...

 

Boat06_zpsa6530a0e.jpg

 

 

These last two are just for fun... Or electrocution. I was amazed when I found the one (and yes I was outside on the pontoon with one end plugged in to the power socket), but I was dumbstruck when I turned up the second!!!

 

Boat01_zpsc2a2ffd1.jpg

 

Boat16_zpsc28364d9.jpg

Edited by Tom Richmond
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are those wooden joists sat on the baseplate of the boat, or am I misreading the picture?

 

EDIT - Posted when there was only one picture - I see there are more now!

Edited by alan_fincher
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are those wooden joists sat on the baseplate of the boat, or am I misreading the picture?

 

EDIT - Posted when there was only one picture - I see there are more now!

 

Yes, floor was secured to wooden 4x4s which were resting on floor of bilge.

Is that a planting bed in a greenhouse?

 

Richard

 

Complete with hydroponics...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe make the floor removable and do the bilge some other time when it's warmer and drier. In the meantime dry things out with stove or electric dessicant dehumidifier.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Already got a dehumidifier on the way. Will get the stove roaring. Not sure I want to wait, currently all exposed, and I'm about to make bedroom furniture on top of it all! Will leave suitable hatches, but full width removable stuff doesn't really work. Also I have a bit of time....

Ah! ohmy.png

 

Indeed, that was my reaction. It's not normal then?

 

I plan to reassemble with battens on top of steel bearers...

 

Does this mean I need to think about working forward through the boat and refurbishing the rest of the floor?

 

And same question - but for the rest of the bilge treating and painting?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.