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The conundrum of shiny boats


Ray T

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Sounds like you have a good way of weeding out the people you wouldn't really like anyway. smile.png

Aye that's true!

 

Another memory that springs to mind is waiting at Hurlsetone junction with another lady for her boat to exit the lock onto the Shroppie while we were waiting to go up. You could almost see the steam fizzing out of her ears. She turned to me and said "you can't imagine how hard it's been - I've had to live on that boat with HIM for three months!" I looked at her nonplussed and said "I've lived aboard with my hubby for three years and we're both happy" She marched away - fizzing even more.

 

ETA sorry, that was a random memory and totally off topic :D I'm burbling now so probably time to shut the lappy down and read my book for a bit

Edited by Ange
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Generalisations are horrible aren't they? I've been guilty of referring to the "shiny boat brigade". Our boat is 25 years old and I have no idea when she last had a decent coat of paint but it was a long time ago. We could find/borrow the money to have a paint job, but there's always been too many other more important things (to us) to spend a limited resource on. One of the reasons we chugged slowly last year was so Dave could turn our tired boat into a shiny boat - unfortunately it was too damn hot most days to think about painting (well that's what he's told me :D) We now have a shiny front and a shiny back.

 

I suppose we've come across a certain amount of snobbery on the canal network which has either come from those on "working boats" or from those on sparkly clean shiny boats with a lovely array of gorgeous flowers on the roof. To give an example (and this has happened on quite a few occasions) I'll arrive at a double lock, windlass in hand, and chat to the lady waiting for the boat we're sharing the lock with. A convivial conversation ensues, their boat arrives gleaming and looking lovely, then our boat joins it - her hubby standing stony faced on the back as first the bike, then the car wheel, a few bags of wood, a clothes airer and various other stuff that we haven't found room for in the boat appear as our rather jaded but much loved boat hoves into view. Suddenly said lady turns very cool on me, and sometimes she won't speak to me again.

 

I know the OP and I know for certain that he wouldn't do that but it does wear you down after a while.

 

And of course I am envious :)

Another case of their problem and not yours.

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"Shiny Boats" or "Shiny Boaters" in my experience are terms that seems to have completely different meanings to differenr people.

This thread has proved that, and some seem to see it primarily as the way that those that are not part of whatever club it is look upon those who are, whist others see it as the way that those that are part of whatever club it is look upon those who are not! captain.gif These are of course two different things.

 

I fell heavily foul of this when in debate with a particularly forceful lady on Facebook whilst I was campaigning for a Boater place on CRT Council. She dismissed me firmly from the outset as a "shiny boater", although she had never met me, or seen my boats, and for a bit the argument got quite heated.
Once we had exchanged a few emails, it became apparent that in her particular live aboard community anybody who didn't "live on", (as she put it), was a "shiny boater". A "shiny boater" was simply one who used their boat for leisure use, but not as a full time home, and it had nowt to do with how well painted or polished. I had never heard it used in this context before, and that had led to our misunderstanding.

I don't think we will all come close to a common meaning of these terms, but I am prepared to say that having read "Ray T's" original post, it doesn't mean to me what it does to him. Which may explain why I couldn't quite see where he was coming from in a conversation we had where we talked about "shiny boats" or "shiny boaters", but without first agreeing a common understanding of what that actually meant ! :lol: - Sorry Ray!)

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"Shiny Boats" or "Shiny Boaters" in my experience are terms that seems to have completely different meanings to differenr people.

 

This thread has proved that, and some seem to see it primarily as the way that those that are not part of whatever club it is look upon those who are, whist others see it as the way that those that are part of whatever club it is look upon those who are not! captain.gif These are of course two different things.

 

I fell heavily foul of this when in debate with a particularly forceful lady on Facebook whilst I was campaigning for a Boater place on CRT Council. She dismissed me firmly from the outset as a "shiny boater", although she had never met me, or seen my boats, and for a bit the argument got quite heated.

Once we had exchanged a few emails, it became apparent that in her particular live aboard community anybody who didn't "live on", (as she put it), was a "shiny boater". A "shiny boater" was simply one who used their boat for leisure use, but not as a full time home, and it had nowt to do with how well painted or polished. I had never heard it used in this context before, and that had led to our misunderstanding.

 

I don't think we will all come close to a common meaning of these terms, but I am prepared to say that having read "Ray T's" original post, it doesn't mean to me what it does to him. Which may explain why I couldn't quite see where he was coming from in a conversation we had where we talked about "shiny boats" or "shiny boaters", but without first agreeing a common understanding of what that actually meant ! laugh.png - Sorry Ray!)

Oh mega giggles - you're as much a shiny boater as I am!!

 

Just goes to show how crap labels and generalisations are!

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Interesting the way this thread developed.

 

In actual fact we all are guilty of pigeon holing those we don't know. Even the one term may and does have different connotations to each of us.

 

Me, I just enjoy boats no matter their eternal condition. I try not to be judgemental until I have had some face to face dealings with folks.

 

What it boils down to we are all different, let's enjoy that difference.

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"Shiny Boats" or "Shiny Boaters" in my experience are terms that seems to have completely different meanings to differenr people.

 

This thread has proved that, and some seem to see it primarily as the way that those that are not part of whatever club it is look upon those who are, whist others see it as the way that those that are part of whatever club it is look upon those who are not! captain.gif These are of course two different things.

 

I fell heavily foul of this when in debate with a particularly forceful lady on Facebook whilst I was campaigning for a Boater place on CRT Council. She dismissed me firmly from the outset as a "shiny boater", although she had never met me, or seen my boats, and for a bit the argument got quite heated.

Once we had exchanged a few emails, it became apparent that in her particular live aboard community anybody who didn't "live on", (as she put it), was a "shiny boater". A "shiny boater" was simply one who used their boat for leisure use, but not as a full time home, and it had nowt to do with how well painted or polished. I had never heard it used in this context before, and that had led to our misunderstanding.

 

I don't think we will all come close to a common meaning of these terms, but I am prepared to say that having read "Ray T's" original post, it doesn't mean to me what it does to him. Which may explain why I couldn't quite see where he was coming from in a conversation we had where we talked about "shiny boats" or "shiny boaters", but without first agreeing a common understanding of what that actually meant ! laugh.png - Sorry Ray!)

That is the trouble such labels do indeed mean different things to as many people as you can ask. "shiny boat" has only the right to read as this boat is shiny but for some it means other things that on the whole do not seem pleasant.

 

That is why people who do have shiny boats can get upset at the label and also why those that don't can get upset if they are mistaken for someone who has.

 

It seems from your story that you had a bad reaction to the label whatever the other person meant by it so I guess it isn't a compliment in your eyes. but of course I may be wrong.

 

As always with labels it says a lot about the person using the term (and their prejudices and even bigotry) and rather less about who the label is supposed to apply to.

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With some friends we use the term "hobby boaters" and we use this to describe the boat and it's owner and it can describe some working boats and some from marinas. It's more about the arrogance often coupled with the ignorance when you meet.

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I know a lot of live aboards that keep there boats lovely and shiny and a lot of us that use our boats as much as we can and really look after them.

 

Well as for Naughty Cal you have no idea, you don't go any where near canals just the Foss Dyke not (Ditch) and on the Trent, as so many narrow boats do as well, we go much farther then you can because we have the boats that can, unlike you and yet you make out you have been every where !!!!!!!!!! Oh yes you can go to Notts and little farther.

Ahem. I can't believe I am actually going to reply to this!

 

We use our boat extensively on waters that your boat can not use. Your boat isn't suitable for the cruising that we do and neither is it capable of going anywhere.

 

Despite what you seem to think we don't limit our cruising to the Fossditch and the Trent. We have since owning NC also cruised the Soar, Ouse, Aire and Calder, SSYN, Selby and Ripon canals and Nottingham Canal as well as the Humber, Norfolk Broads and the East Coast.

 

We cover more miles in a two week trip than many narrowboats will cover in a year. Last summers two week trip covered some 550 miles this years is set to be closer to 600 miles. I'm not sure quite what you class as "going somewhere" if this isn't!

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There is room for an awful lot of "live & let live" in this topic. Beyond mentioning the concept of basic pride and consideration for others (as obviously not necessarily evident in other areas of life, e.g. house dwellers who regard their front gardens as a cross between an SSSI and the local tip) I would comment no further on the human aspects of how you choose to maintain your boat.

 

However the practical aspect is the question "is it being realistic to pay many thousands of pounds for a gleaming coach finish on a narrow boat?" By "coach finish" I don't mean "well painted," but "excessively well painted." I have always regarded narrow boating as potentially a "contact sport" and this is becoming increasingly the case with overgrown banks, narrowed channels and inconsiderate mooring. Whilst I would be the first to remonstrate if somebody pointed a spike-shod boat pole at my boat (except perhaps the likes of Pete Harrison who would know where to safely place it!) I would equally belong to the group who consider that topsides hull blacking is expendable like the tyres on a car, and decks are to be walked on (but not cants or cabin tops!). Branch scratches must be expected on the cabin sides.

 

Working boats were precisely that : working boats, and despite that many crews managed to maintain their boats immaculately, albeit aided by the fact that much of the brightwork was of limited area and in reach of the steerer without straying too far from the tiller. So even if the working areas were worn the boat would be clean and.....er.... shiny. Contrast that with an excessively immaculately painted boat that I saw the other day where the owner had not seen fit to take a mop to his exhaust-sooted counter for many a day or week.

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Ahem. I can't believe I am actually going to reply to this!

 

We use our boat extensively on waters that your boat can not use. Your boat isn't suitable for the cruising that we do and neither is it capable of going anywhere.

 

Despite what you seem to think we don't limit our cruising to the Fossditch and the Trent. We have since owning NC also cruised the Soar, Ouse, Aire and Calder, SSYN, Selby and Ripon canals and Nottingham Canal as well as the Humber, Norfolk Broads and the East Coast.

 

We cover more miles in a two week trip than many narrowboats will cover in a year. Last summers two week trip covered some 550 miles this years is set to be closer to 600 miles. I'm not sure quite what you class as "going somewhere" if this isn't!

 

Well as we bumped into you (not literally of course) coming out of the lock at Whitley as you were waiting to go in I can bear witness to that bit for sure.

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Shiney boaters have a habit of viewing other, less glimmering, boats from a perspective that begins with the end of their nose. No surprise they garner peoples' ire as they progress.

 

I'm sure all manner of boaters fit that description, from people with the shiniest boats to the scruffiest 'survive-aboards'

 

By singling out shiny boaters for it, I suspect you may be falling into that trap yourself, Smelly! ohmy.png

 

(though I suspect you don't own a shiny boat ;))

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited by smileypete
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Does anyone deliberately not bother making their boat look nice to deter 'unwanted' attention from thiefs and vandals etc? Having asked that I have no idea whether a 'nice' looking boat is more likely to get vandalised or broken into.

when i painted "grace" i didnt want a gleaming deep shine paint job, i wanted the boat to look like an old boat that was well cared for.....iv put fancy paint jobs on boats in the past and i found it to be a nightmare travelling with them and worrying about damage

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I remember some time ago when Dave Moore left Resolute moored at the bottom of our garden in Braunston. Chrissie and I just happen to be sat in the summerhouse when we heard two chaps chatting as they sailed past.

“Just look at that boat all shiny and new, it’s obviously never been anywhere and I bet the people are yuppies”.

I felt so proud, me a yuppie, and I’m sure Dave would be proud that his hard work hadn’t been in vain.

Oh hum.

Terence

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Oh no! Publicly acknowledged as a shiny boater.......whatever next? I've looked at some of the responses so far, here's my two pennworth.

 

Yes, I take a lot of time and trouble to keep Resolute immaculate when I'm boating. As the company demonstrator for Norton Canes Boatbuilders I'd be doing Graham a disservice by doing anything less. But it goes deeper than that. Reading Narrowboat as a teenager, Rolts descriptions of the decorations of the Oxford canal boaters struck a chord which resonates still, more than 50 years later. I was lucky enough to see some of the best of the last in the dying days of carrying and it all somehow made sense to me. Boaters had few material possessions, but proclaimed their status by keeping the boats looking good, much as a modern owner/operator trucking may have an airbrushed landscape or masses of chrome around his cab, just to proclaim pride of ownership. I look after Resolute for similar reasons and the decorative work, brass and ropework are my homage to the few boaters I was lucky enough to know. It's gratifying to receive compliments from others, both boaters and bystanders, but those I cherish most are from the handful of remaining boaters kind enough to acknowledge our efforts.

 

This is probably meaningless to many forum members newer to the scene than I am. I recall one astonished boater at Fradley a few years ago who was amazed at the amount of polished brass and had no idea of the background or tradition I try to maintain. Those members with longer memories will hopefully understand. Sonia Rolts excellent book, A Canal People, says it far more eloquently than I can and Sheila Stewart's Ramlin Rose clarifies the working boat ethos.

 

I recall chewing this over with Graham over red wine one night. As we drained our glasses, he looked at me and said, in his best black country....." Kid....they doe know!"

 

Cheers

 

Dave

Edited by dave moore
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Having read your response carefully Dave, I see you did not deny the "yuppie" tag..... lol smile.png

 

To be honest one of the joys of the canals for me is the colours and visual spectacle. Go shiney boaters.

Edited by mark99
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Oh no! Publicly acknowledged as a shiny boater.......whatever next? I've looked at some of the responses so far, here's my two pennworth.

 

Yes, I take a lot of time and trouble to keep Resolute immaculate when I'm boating. As the company demonstrator for Norton Canes Boatbuilders I'd be doing Graham a disservice by doing anything less. But it goes deeper than that. Reading Narrowboat as a teenager, Rolts descriptions of the decorations of the Oxford canal boaters struck a chord which resonates still, more than 50 years later. I was lucky enough to see some of the best of the last in the dying days of carrying and it all somehow made sense to me. Boaters had few material possessions, but proclaimed their status by keeping the boats looking good, much as a modern owner/operator trucking may have an airbrushed landscape or masses of chrome around his cab, just to proclaim pride of ownership. I look after Resolute for similar reasons and the decorative work, brass and ropework are my homage to the few boaters I was lucky enough to know. It's gratifying to receive compliments from others, both boaters and bystanders, but those I cherish most are from the handful of remaining boaters kind enough to acknowledge our efforts.

 

This is probably meaningless to many forum members newer to the scene than I am. I recall one astonished boater at Fradley a few years ago who was amazed at the amount of polished brass and had no idea of the background or tradition I try to maintain. Those members with longer memories will hopefully understand. Sonia Rolts excellent book, A Canal People, says it far more eloquently than I can and Sheila Stewart's Ramlin Rose clarifies the working boat ethos.

 

I recall chewing this over with Graham over red wine one night. As we drained our glasses, he looked at me and said, in his best black country....." Kid....they doe know!"

 

Cheers

 

Dave

Great post I agree with you on the attitude of old boaters. After all it was their home they had very little compared to us in modern times but they took pride in what they did and how they lived. I enjoyed reading the books you mention they do offer some insight to how things were.

I remember some time ago when Dave Moore left Resolute moored at the bottom of our garden in Braunston. Chrissie and I just happen to be sat in the summerhouse when we heard two chaps chatting as they sailed past.

“Just look at that boat all shiny and new, it’s obviously never been anywhere and I bet the people are yuppies”.

I felt so proud, me a yuppie, and I’m sure Dave would be proud that his hard work hadn’t been in vain.

Oh hum.

Terence

Doesn't that just sum the whole shiny boat thing up.

 

These folk see a great boat in fine order and jump to a conclusion that matches their bigotry and prejudice.

 

Why shouldn't someone so skilled as to be able to produce such a fine looking boat be proud of it and maintain it in that condition.

 

Mind you I am not that great with the brasso myself but I like to keep the boat as best we can.

 

It is a bit like Classic cars I love looking at the superb concourse examples but truth be known I am not so keen on putting the many hours it takes to get a car to beyond showroom condition and maintain it. But I have to take my hat off to the folk who do.

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Oh no! Publicly acknowledged as a shiny boater.......whatever next? I've looked at some of the responses so far, here's my two pennworth.

 

Yes, I take a lot of time and trouble to keep Resolute immaculate when I'm boating. As the company demonstrator for Norton Canes Boatbuilders I'd be doing Graham a disservice by doing anything less. But it goes deeper than that. Reading Narrowboat as a teenager, Rolts descriptions of the decorations of the Oxford canal boaters struck a chord which resonates still, more than 50 years later. I was lucky enough to see some of the best of the last in the dying days of carrying and it all somehow made sense to me. Boaters had few material possessions, but proclaimed their status by keeping the boats looking good, much as a modern owner/operator trucking may have an airbrushed landscape or masses of chrome around his cab, just to proclaim pride of ownership. I look after Resolute for similar reasons and the decorative work, brass and ropework are my homage to the few boaters I was lucky enough to know. It's gratifying to receive compliments from others, both boaters and bystanders, but those I cherish most are from the handful of remaining boaters kind enough to acknowledge our efforts.

 

This is probably meaningless to many forum members newer to the scene than I am. I recall one astonished boater at Fradley a few years ago who was amazed at the amount of polished brass and had no idea of the background or tradition I try to maintain. Those members with longer memories will hopefully understand. Sonia Rolts excellent book, A Canal People, says it far more eloquently than I can and Sheila Stewart's Ramlin Rose clarifies the working boat ethos.

 

I recall chewing this over with Graham over red wine one night. As we drained our glasses, he looked at me and said, in his best black country....." Kid....they doe know!"

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

Although I cannot remember working boats in their carrying days I am deeply interested in the history and traditions of the canal.

 

Although Croxton Flash is a leisure boat I do have many of the artifacts which a working boat would have had: Roses and castles on my back doors, Buckby style water can, courtesy of Terence. I cannot call it a Buckby Can as it came from Braunston, a dipper, handbowl, proper mop, chimney chain made of gas mask links, cabin strings etc etc. I often get asked what the various item are and what they are for. Through study and information from this forum I know the origin and purpose of these items and can pass that information on.

 

I was once asked the origin of roses and castles from a tourist at Stoke Bruerne, With trepidation I answered the question as Ken and Mary Nelson, the owners of Ultima and Thule, were behind me. After I had finished I received a nod of approval from Ken, phew!!!

 

12033598116_b54c6ece32_c.jpg

 

Yes I know these are modern builds but nevertheless to me a beautiful pair of boats.

 

I would like to own an ex working boat but as this is not possible at the moment I will make do with what I have. But I like to think in my own small way I am keeping the history and traditions alive.

Edited by Ray T
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when i painted "grace" i didnt want a gleaming deep shine paint job, i wanted the boat to look like an old boat that was well cared for.....iv put fancy paint jobs on boats in the past and i found it to be a nightmare travelling with them and worrying about damage

I have spray painted a few cars in my time but I am not that skilled with enamel and a brush so if I paint our own boat as I would like to I think I may borrow that excuse for not making it as shiny as it could be!

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