Dispute at Pillings

[Graham Davis]

 

I think the car dodging of planning is more likely as putting planning in for a PRIVATE MARINA with access via a PUBLIC BRIDLE PATH,but actually turning the site into PUBLIC PARK has been the idea after the Steadmans came on the scene

 

See my post some time ago about the access rights and the possible LEGAL use of the bridle path.

[Pillingsmoorer]

Hi All

as a leisure moorer at Pillings I thought I had better found out what is going on! apart from an email inviting us to the open meeting I had had to find out everything else from the forum or local news media. would appreciate any of the liveaboards at pillings letting me know how many boats have now left and what is going on - cannot get down there until Saturday

thanks

As far as I know no boats have left yet. The marina is due to be sealed off on April 14th. After the 14th you can still exit the marina but you will not be able to get in. Having said all that more than likely a new agreement will be set up so nothing will happen. Don't read the dramatics on this forum, there is no where near as much dram actually at the marina. Everyone I have spoken to seems quite positive. Edited January 27, 2014 by Pillingsmoorer

[George94]

It is becoming more and more clear that CART have really made a complete hash of this. Instead of realising that their impost was too much for the marina to bear, they have forced the issue and will now get nothing. That's really intelligent.

 

Nobody is going to take over something that clearly doesn't make financial sense, and so CART is out of pocket for lost revenue, legal fees, and the blocking off cost. Moorers are going to be without a mooring, staff without a job, and the owners without a marina.

 

Well done, Mr Spencer. With people like this in charge, what hope is there for CART?

[Jerra]

It is becoming more and more clear that CART have really made a complete hash of this. Instead of realising that their impost was too much for the marina to bear, they have forced the issue and will now get nothing. That's really intelligent.

 

Nobody is going to take over something that clearly doesn't make financial sense, and so CART is out of pocket for lost revenue, legal fees, and the blocking off cost. Moorers are going to be without a mooring, staff without a job, and the owners without a marina.

 

Well done, Mr Spencer. With people like this in charge, what hope is there for CART?

Am I missing something?

 

As I understand it other marinas (OK not all) are being successful with NAA fees to pay.

 

If CRT had given in to pressure and allowed this marina to"get away" with lower fees what do you suppose would stop all other marinas asking for the same.

 

Following that how would CRT have made up the short fall (ever increasing as more marinas backed out of agreements) in their income?

 

I don't think they had much choice really.

[Coojay]

thanks Pillingmoorer - our boat is waiting for repair so we will not be going anywhere for a while anyway - so a storm in a teacup?

[George94]

Am I missing something?

 

As I understand it other marinas (OK not all) are being successful with NAA fees to pay.

 

If CRT had given in to pressure and allowed this marina to"get away" with lower fees what do you suppose would stop all other marinas asking for the same.

 

Following that how would CRT have made up the short fall (ever increasing as more marinas backed out of agreements) in their income?

 

I don't think they had much choice really.

 

According to NBW, something like half the marinas in the country are losing money. If this is true, it is not surprising given the economic situation. However this pans out, I expect the NAA will be in the news again before too long.

[DeanS]

I'm sorry to play catch up...what a thread..... Can someone re-clarify what is going to happen on Feb 3rd exactly.

[George94]

Creditors meeting.

[Willber G]

Am I missing something?

 

As I understand it other marinas (OK not all) are being successful with NAA fees to pay.

 

If CRT had given in to pressure and allowed this marina to"get away" with lower fees what do you suppose would stop all other marinas asking for the same.

 

Following that how would CRT have made up the short fall (ever increasing as more marinas backed out of agreements) in their income?

 

I don't think they had much choice really.

+1 and a greenie.

[Mac of Cygnet]

After the 14th you can still exit the marina but you will not be able to get in.

 

Really? Have you any confirmation of this from CRT?

[Graham Davis]

 

According to NBW, something like half the marinas in the country are losing money. If this is true, it is not surprising given the economic situation. However this pans out, I expect the NAA will be in the news again before too long.

Do you have any personal evidence for this supposition?

 

And if it's in NBW it must be true!!

[George94]

Do you have any personal evidence for this supposition?

 

And if it's in NBW it must be true!!

 

What do you mean by "personal evidence"?

[eightpot]

 

What do you mean by "personal evidence"?

Trawl through companies house for all the end of year accounts of every marina in the country perhaps?

 

You know, facts.

[George94]

Trawl through companies house for all the end of year accounts of every marina in the country perhaps?

 

You know, facts.

 

I must confess I haven't done that. Had I done so, i would have said so. Although NBW was my source of information, I do feel that what they say rings true. A very large proportion of businesses in the leisure industry are struggling at the moment, and that information comes from credit reports obtained by a client of mine who has customers in that industry.

Edited January 28, 2014 by George94

[MtB]

 

I must confess I haven't done that. Had I done so, i would have said so. Although NBW was my source of information, I do feel that what they say rings true. A very large proportion of businesses in the leisure industry are struggling at the moment, and that information comes from credit reports obtained by a client of mine who has customers in that industry.

 

I'm inclined to agree with George.

 

On the several occasions I've done initial 'back of an envelope' calculations to work out how viable opening a marina would be myself, I've satisfied myself the return on capital wouldn't be worth the effort. And SO not worth the effort as to make me not even bother checking my calcs for big errors.

 

The only thing that makes me doubt my figures is the current rush to build new marinas like those at Cropredy, Onley, Hawkesbury etc. I can't see the business case myself.

 

MtB

[George94]

Entrepreneurs are by nature optimists, and it's a well established fact that people believe what they want to believe, rather than what is rational.

 

Earlier, Adam, I think, said something about banks having to be convinced that there was a good business case. In the days of local bank managers that might have been true, but bankers nowadays are interested only in whether you can provide enough security. They don't have the expertise or the interest to evaluate a business case.

[GoodGurl]

saw this on twitter today, dont look like they will be closing very soon

Pillings Lock Marina

Two Job Vacancies this week - 30hrs per week Bar Supervisor & 12 hrs per week Cleaner. Call Martyn on 01509 620990

[Pillingsmoorer]

thanks Pillingmoorer - our boat is waiting for repair so we will not be going anywhere for a while anyway - so a storm in a teacup?

wouldn't say storm in a teacup however I don't think outcome is what the majority want on here.

[costalot]

[Phew…. 3½ hours to read this thread]

 

For simplicity sake there appear to be two companies involved with the marina. A hold company that owns all the assets and which has an agreement with CRT that an agreement for access to the canal network will not be unreasonably withheld to another company owning the operating lease to the marina. A second company has a lease to operate the marina and which has failed to pay CRT for access to the network during the previous 4 years and which has failed to comply with a court ruling to pay CRT £180,000 owed. The second company has no assets. Paul Lillie is the person most associated with the operating company.

 

The operating company is being placed into voluntary liquidation by the owners. Because it is a voluntary liquidation the owners will likely appoint the liquidators. The only asset the operating company has is the operating lease.

 

The liquidators will try to maximize the value of the former operating company by finding a new owner. It is unlikely CRT will provide access to any new owners of the operating lease if Paul Lillie is associated with the business. CRT may decide this also extends to the holding company of which Paul Lillie is a part owner.

 

One assumes the boaters had a legal agreement with the operating company. Given that it has been liquidated one assumes their legal agreements are null and void and any money paid in advance has been lost. They are unsecured creditors. If some paid by credit card they may be able to recover part of their money.

 

One would also assume that as the company has been liquidated electricity, water, sewage, etc may shortly be cut off as the utilities companies will be waiting to see if the liquidator is going to pay them. I assume the liquidators will attempt to avoid this as they will want an income stream from the boaters and businesses on site to keep the business running whilst they attempt to find a buyer. But the liquidators will be seriously attempting to save costs so residents should anticipate a degrading of services and facilities.

 

If the marina becomes a lake then I would assume the owners of the new operating lease will want to increase the mooring fees on the basis that council tax is now applicable. Although this may not adversely affect boaters as they will no longer require a CRT boat license.

 

It is not in CRT’s interests to close off the marina, but they will not want to have anything to do with the previous management/owners of the operating lease. Moreover, I would expect they would be ensuring the new lease owners are required to pay the access fee quarterly in advance. Well I hope they would!

 

If I had a boat in the marina I would immediately remove it until the dust settled. I would not make any further mooring payments and would become ‘incommunicado’ when receiving correspondence from the liquidators (they are not on your side... you are a source of money) until after the matter was resolved. That is; when the new operating lease owner took over the business and presented their new terms and conditions.

 

All users of the canal network have just lost £180,000. The problem originated back when the network was owned by BW and CRT have inherited the problem. Hopefully the lesson CRT takes from this is to in future act more promptly. If I were the CRT financial controller my commercial attitude would be you pay your access fee on time or you’ll find yourself cut off within a week and have to pay an additional fee to get reinstated. The previous operating company hit the soft target (BW) knowing what would happen if they attempted the same strategy with the utilities companies etc.

[junior]

Really? Have you any confirmation of this from CRT?

CRT sent an email out saying so, it's in this thread somewhere.

[mayalld]

According to NBW, something like half the marinas in the country are losing money. If this is true, it is not surprising given the economic situation. However this pans out, I expect the NAA will be in the news again before too long.

Having read the first 3 words, the rest really doesn't matter does it

[FredDrift]

saw this on twitter today, dont look like they will be closing very soon

Pillings Lock Marina

Two Job Vacancies this week - 30hrs per week Bar Supervisor & 12 hrs per week Cleaner. Call Martyn on 01509 620990

No doubt these two new employees will be fighting CRT off with beer mats and brooms. CRT are not planning to close the bar, just the marina entrance.

[alan_fincher]

 

According to NBW, something like half the marinas in the country are losing money. If this is true, it is not surprising given the economic situation. However this pans out, I expect the NAA will be in the news again before too long.

 

Post number 1456 before someone quotes a definitive source!

[DeanS]

 

I'm inclined to agree with George.

 

On the several occasions I've done initial 'back of an envelope' calculations to work out how viable opening a marina would be myself, I've satisfied myself the return on capital wouldn't be worth the effort. And SO not worth the effort as to make me not even bother checking my calcs for big errors.

 

The only thing that makes me doubt my figures is the current rush to build new marinas like those at Cropredy, Onley, Hawkesbury etc. I can't see the business case myself.

 

MtB

 

 

New Islington Marina, in Manchester, which has had a lot of bad press due to local yoofs throwing stones etc, still has a waiting list of 60 boats for residential berths. Just to bring some perspective. There's no restaurant, but there is a washing machine

[MtB]

 

 

New Islington Marina, in Manchester, which has had a lot of bad press due to local yoofs throwing stones etc, still has a waiting list of 60 boats for residential berths. Just to bring some perspective. There's no restaurant, but there is a washing machine

 

You miss my point. My back-of-an-envelope calcs indicate it is hard to make enough profit from a marina to realistically pay the cost of capital necessary to finance the venture.

 

Nothing to do with how long the waiting list is, beyond the fact that a waiting list suggests the marina is full.

 

MtB