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Dispute at Pillings


andy the hammer

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I need a computer whizzo to answer this one, but I believe that anyone using the marina's Wi-Fi would show up the same IP address.

 

No, the router would issue each internal connection with a 192.168.X.X address. You could however go via an anonymous (proxy) server set up for the purpose.

 

 

Gibbo once did a good explanation about IP addresses though as I seem to recall they were traceable down to individual PC's, but my memory is possibly faulty.

 

IP and MAC address spoofing are easy. However there are certain versions of windows7 such as the home edition that will not spoof a mac address.

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The point is that the processes are not actually similar, as we saw when you offered an opinion on it being impossible to register unusable pockets of land.

 

 

 

mayalid, you seem like a nice person. Don't paraphrase me or quote me out of context, please. It's counterproductive to polite conversation.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

 

 

Edited to remove a snarky remark.

Edited by Paul G.
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And the router/modem itself will have a unique IP address allocated by the ISP.

 

So that's any one of 300 potential boat owners sharing the marina wifi facility behind a single IP address. So how would you go around tracking it back to a single PC and why would you want to. Anyone could be on the marina wifi and use PacketiX.net which is free anonymity proxy service offered by SoftEther Corp as an academic experiment which is operated by the University of Tsukuba in Japan.

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Yes it's certainly easy to have multiple IDs if you want to. You just need a few devices and different means of connecting to the internet. I have an iPhone, an iPad (connects via 3G), a laptop (can connect to bt wifi) and a desktop (connects via our router / broadband). Armed with some different email addresses, how could the mods know I had 4 different IDs? I would just have to be careful to use the right device with the right ID. But then again, why bother!

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Anyway, getting back to the company structure, I'm puzzled. Lotsa of peeps on here say give the guy a break, the whole thing was not a scam planned from the start.

 

If this is the case, I'm just trying to understand why the marina is not being operated by Quorn Marina Properties Ltd. They made the NAA agreement with BW, and I suspct BW expected Quorn Marina Properties Ltd to operate tyhe marina, collect the mooring fees, etc.

 

This didn't happen. Another company was set up to collect the mooring fees. Why was this, if not as part of a plan right from the start to let Quorn Marina Properties Ltd run up a ton of debt with CRT then go bust?

 

I know I'm a bit naïve with corporate structures but Pilling Lock Marina Ltd seems wholly unnecessary to me, unless for fraudulent purposes.

 

MtB

  • Greenie 1
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So that's any one of 300 potential boat owners sharing the marina wifi facility behind a single IP address. So how would you go around tracking it back to a single PC and why would you want to. Anyone could be on the marina wifi and use PacketiX.net which is free anonymity proxy service offered by SoftEther Corp as an academic experiment which is operated by the University of Tsukuba in Japan.

 

If you had duplicate identities, they would all pass through that single IP address

 

Do you seriously think all our IP addresses are recorded as 192.168.1.1?

 

Richard

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So that's any one of 300 potential boat owners sharing the marina wifi facility behind a single IP address. So how would you go around tracking it back to a single PC and why would you want to. Anyone could be on the marina wifi and use PacketiX.net which is free anonymity proxy service offered by SoftEther Corp as an academic experiment which is operated by the University of Tsukuba in Japan.

I think you will find TunnelBear is much eassier to use

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If you had duplicate identities, they would all pass through that single IP address

 

Do you seriously think all our IP addresses are recorded as 192.168.1.1?

 

Richard

192.168.x.x are non routing single hop addresses and would not carry beyond the router anyway. The original question was tracking back to a single IP address to identify a single user with multi ids. However if you go to http://ipinfo.info/html/anonymous-surfing_2.php you can choose from a huge number of free and paid for anonymous proxy. If I wanted multi ids without needing to associate an account with a particular service such as MtB suggests. That's the way to go. No spoofing required and in many cases nothing to install and configure. It would also be easy to log out, issue an ipconfig /release then ipconfig /renew from a dos box, which would pick up a new ip address from the issuing ISP. then login with another id.

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Presumably, you are a member of his family working well to ensure the successful running of the business.

 

The measurement of success seems unusual by normal standards but if having the core element of the business converted from a marina to a landlocked pond by a creditor of the business is such a measurement then clearly the running of the business has been very successful.

 

Pillngs Lock Pond has a nice ring to it though.

Pillings Locked Pond, surely?

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Anyway, getting back to the company structure, I'm puzzled. Lotsa of peeps on here say give the guy a break, the whole thing was not a scam planned from the start.

 

If this is the case, I'm just trying to understand why the marina is not being operated by Quorn Marina Properties Ltd. They made the NAA agreement with BW, and I suspct BW expected Quorn Marina Properties Ltd to operate tyhe marina, collect the mooring fees, etc.

 

This didn't happen. Another company was set up to collect the mooring fees. Why was this, if not as part of a plan right from the start to let Quorn Marina Properties Ltd run up a ton of debt with CRT then go bust?

 

I know I'm a bit naïve with corporate structures but Pilling Lock Marina Ltd seems wholly unnecessary to me, unless for fraudulent purposes.

 

MtB

 

I have a sister who is a para-legal (it's like an assistant solicitor). She once worked for a shipping company that had petroleum tankers. The only thing she did, all day long everyday was form and register LLCs. All the paperwork was in her word processor, all she had to do was supply names, addresses and so on and then print, format and file and she did hundreds of them. The way she explained it to me is that the trend in business is to have a web of corporations designed in such a way that any individual LLCs can be excised from the whole and take a lot of liability with them. With the petroleum shipping it was like every step of every shipment was controlled by a different LLC so that, if ever an incident occurs, it is the responsibility of a sacrificial corporation with a limited business and few assets. The shipping company doesn't plan to have some kind of an accident or incident or spill as part of its business plan, but it does make sure that is has the ability to shed the liability for any such occurrence.

 

That sounds kinda like the philosophy behind how the three Pillings corporations are set up. Not necessarily with the intention of defaulting, but with a good out just in case they did.

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I don't see anything good about that ...entirely unethical IMO

I agree but as the system allows it, unethical business people will exploit to the full.

 

It down to the more money you have, the more you want, and the less ethics and morals you then have.

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I may be wrong, and correct me if I am, but wasn't there a change in company law some years back to curb such activity and to make directors personally liable?

 

I seem to think it was all about intent!

 

But you prove that there had intent to defraud from the min the company was set up.

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But as Mike says -

 

Another company was set up to collect the mooring fees. Why was this, if not as part of a plan right from the start to let Quorn Marina Properties Ltd run up a ton of debt with CRT then go bust?

 

Surely it wouldn't be too difficult to make a case for intent to defraud?

Edited by Pilly
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mayalid, you seem like a nice person. Don't paraphrase me or quote me out of context, please. It's counterproductive to polite conversation.

 

I'm not attempting to quote you out of context, and paraphrasing what has gone before is often essential if the conversation is to continue at all!

 

It is true that the US legal system and the UK legal system have a shared root.

 

However, the US chose to not be part of this realm some time ago, and since that time, its legal system and ours have developed along separate tracks, to the extent that they are now different.

 

Clearly, there are aspects of land ownership and use that will remain very similar at a distance, simply because there aren't that many ways that one could construct it. However, as soon as you get down to the detailed level, there are major differences.

 

Those major differences mean that most of what you have said about what is and isn't going on with regard to ownership etc, whilst entirely true if PLM were in the US is entirely false in this case.

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If I were an energetic entrepreneur in England right now, I would be heading down to PLM and organizing the occupants and I would have a good chance of becoming the General Partner in a really nice marina. Paul Lillie is not a good businessman. The Steadmans are like zombies. Any good businessman/woman would eat P.Lillie for lunch.

 

Paul,

 

the idea of the moorers stepping in to take over the marina, aided by an entrepreneur of your ilk simply isn't going to fly.

 

The reason is that the corporate setup here means that the bit that they might actually want to take over isn't available to them, and the bit that is available to be taken over isn't worth anything.

 

QMH (the holding company that actually owns PLM) operated the marina using two subsidiaries QMP and PLM.

 

It leased the whole marina to QMP, which in turn leased moorings (or rather car parking spaces, but that isn't actually as important a distinction as some seem to think). It also leased mooring rights in the remainder of the marina to PLM, and would have had some relationship in relation to service charges etc for the leaseholders.

 

The arrangement means that all the actual worth remains in the holding company. All the debt remains in QMP, and PLM actually trades.

 

This arrangement means that PLM will have paid QMP only for the berths it uses (at a rate that ensures that it never has any major assets or liabilities). QMP will have been paying QMH for the whole marina, leaving nothing for CRT.

 

The liquidators have to dispose of the assets of QMP, consisting of the lease that it has from QMH, encumbered by the leases that berth holders and PLM hold from it. Those assets aren't worth anything to anybody outside the QMH group.

 

Certainly the moorers could buy the assets of QMH for a nominal sum, but what they would have bought is a lease on the marina that they have to pay QMH for, and they will be saddled with the leases that the leaseholder moorers have and that PLM has. They couldn't actually get rid of Mr Lillie and run the marina themselves.

 

For the same reason that the long term leaseholders haven't lost everything, PL Marina Ltd hasn't lost everything.

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