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Dispute at Pillings


andy the hammer

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Philip Ridal is also a Director of the following :

 

Canal & Rivers Marinas Ltd

Canal & Rivers Developments Ltd

Canal & River Investments Ltd

Canal & River Fundraising Ltd

Canal & River Friends Ltd

Canal & River Pension Partner Ltd

Canal & River Trading Ltd

Brtish Waterways Marinas Ltd

Aquamanta Ltd

 

"Philip Ridal holds 9 current appointment, has resigned from 92 companies and held appointments at 21 dissolved companies. Philip began their first appointment at the age of 37 and their longest current appointment spans 12 years and 9 months at AQUAMANTA LIMITED"

 

It must be nice to know the right people. Just think, this guy draws a salary for every Directorship he holds.

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Well, when with BW (in 2010) his salary was not to be sniffed at:

Philip Ridal Finance Director British Waterways £185,000 - £189,999

 

 

Comment deleted in the light of the subsequent post from Peter X

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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It must be nice to know the right people. Just think, this guy draws a salary for every Directorship he holds.

 

I'd be cautious about reading too much into this.

 

A director might be paid a lot, a little or sometimes nothing for holding a post. The first 8 of the 9 companies listed above sound to me as if they might be parts of the CRT empire where Philip Ridal is the CRT's representative on the board. If that is so it wouldn't surprise me if those 8 companies pay him nothing and his salary comes from CRT.

 

Aquamanta Ltd seems to be something to do with fishkeeping, registered at a nice little house in Richmond. Nothing to do with CRT?

 

He's held a lot of directorships before, but that doesn't tell us whether he was overpaid for whatever he did there.

 

And when a company is dissolved, there may or may not have been any wrongdoing, and if there was each individual director may or may not have been responsible.

 

Basically the information doesn't in itself say anything bad about Mr Ridal.

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It must be nice to know the right people. Just think, this guy draws a salary for every Directorship he holds.

Not so.

 

Apart from Aquamanta (owned by Ridal himself) all these companies are owned or jointly owned by CaRT. CaRT (and BW before it) say that its directors and staff receive no separate remuneration or benefit from being on the boards of these other companies.

 

The only exception to this that has been identified is that on two occasions Sally Ash (Head of Boating reporting to Simon Salem) received benefit in kind by virtue of being a director of Drifters Leisure Ltd (a hire booking company that CaRT runs with a consortium of hire boat operators). The benefit in kind was two free holidays.

 

Having said that, CaRT mislead to public regarding Ridal's salary when it became a charity as it did with some of the other directors.

 

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May I request that we remain on-topic with this unusually important thread please?

 

Discussion of CRT director salaries deserves a separate thread of its own, rather than getting jumbled up with analysis of the Pillings Lock dabacle.

 

Thanks!

 

 

MtB

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I don't think discussing CRTs directors salaries is any more off topic that the multitude of posts listing pairs :-) It seemed to go on for pages and perhaps another thread might have been a more appropriate place for it.

This thread IS very important and I can understand that in periods of no news folks introduce a bit of light heartedness but if CRT are following the thread, they probably gave up at that point.

Just my thoughts.

haggis

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I don't think discussing CRTs directors salaries is any more off topic that the multitude of posts listing pairs :-) It seemed to go on for pages and perhaps another thread might have been a more appropriate place for it.

This thread IS very important and I can understand that in periods of no news folks introduce a bit of light heartedness but if CRT are following the thread, they probably gave up at that point.

Just my thoughts.

haggis

 

True. I found that interlude pretty irritating too, despite contributing briefly myself!

 

Getting back on topic (and how the director salary discussion began) I'm wondering at what point in the future Lillie junior will stop paying himself the £60k a year, given that the moorings income has (presumably) slowed to a trickle if not completely dried up.

 

And how far away from insolvency is PLM too now, I wonder.

 

 

MtB

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May I request that we remain on-topic with this unusually important thread please?

 

 

Agreed, so...

The thought occurred to me the other day, will some of the moorers who decide to leave, some of whom may have been static a long time, be having difficulties with some of the following?

(a) getting their engine etc. ready in time. Of course the boat repair business on the site may well be able to help with this?

( b ) finding crew to accomplish the move. Probably not too hard?

( c ) finding an alternative marina or other mooring to suit their needs; what spaces do nearby marinas have?

(d) suing PLM for breach of contract?

If anyone is having such difficulties, I'd suggest they seek help in the relevant section of this forum, and that contributors to this topic and/or the many others watching it will feel moved to help in whatever way they are able.

I'd also like to think that CRT will be happy to advise boaters on how to escape as April 14th approaches. The more who exit, the greater the pressure on Mr Steadman to cave in and pay up.

On a related subject, the other day I saw that PLM lists 6 boats for sale. Should any of those remain unsold by 14th April, will PL be keeping them on the lake in accordance with his public statements?

Edited by Peter X
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And how far away from insolvency is PLM too now, I wonder.

 

 

MtB

I would think the fortune / demise of Pillings Lock Marina is in the safe hands of Mr Steadman where it has always been.

The Muppetry Management of the marina has allegedly never run it as a going concern, why would it need to when Steadman is there to pick up the tab?

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( c ) finding an alternative marina or other mooring to suit their needs; what spaces do nearby marinas have?

 

There are (were) a number of vacancies in the vicinity, (particularly at Sawley - 15 miles by road from PLM) but when it was suggested about 3000 posts ago it was suggested by those who moor at PLM that it was too far from Work / School / Family

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True. I found that interlude pretty irritating too, despite contributing briefly myself!

 

Getting back on topic (and how the director salary discussion began) I'm wondering at what point in the future Lillie junior will stop paying himself the £60k a year, given that the moorings income has (presumably) slowed to a trickle if not completely dried up.

 

And how far away from insolvency is PLM too now, I wonder.

 

 

MtB

 

The moorings income can't have slowed to a trickle and most certainly dried up. I have read on here that a couple of boats have left the marina. You would not know it when you look round the marina it's seems as busy as ever. I think people are holding out to see the outcome of the communications we received from cart on Monday and the email received from the marina today.

 

I think the general opinion seems to be that there is no pint making any hasty decisions at the moment. If I do have to leave which I really do not want to do. I won't do it until May (if at all) as I will be at my house in Spain when the closure is due to take place.

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I would think the fortune / demise of Pillings Lock Marina is in the safe hands of Mr Steadman where it has always been.

The Muppetry Management of the marina has allegedly never run it as a going concern, why would it need to when Steadman is there to pick up the tab?

 

Indeed.

 

And this leads to the obvious question 'why is he still there to pick up the tab'?

 

Given the place seem to cost him money on a continuing basis, there must be a bigger game plan being played out. Some sort of anticipated future pay-off.

 

People like Mr Steadman don't support lame duck businesses like Pillings for personal amusement, or because because they feel sorry for the moorers.

 

MtB

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There are (were) a number of vacancies in the vicinity, (particularly at Sawley - 15 miles by road from PLM) but when it was suggested about 3000 posts ago it was suggested by those who moor at PLM that it was too far from Work / School / Family

yes it's about 25 mins drive from here and it's not a nice place.
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There are (were) a number of vacancies in the vicinity, (particularly at Sawley - 15 miles by road from PLM) but when it was suggested about 3000 posts ago it was suggested by those who moor at PLM that it was too far from Work / School / Family

 

CRT has said it will allow various exit times...till May 31st, so people who work, school in the area, will probably just leave their boats where they are until then I would think...why should they move when they possibly aren't wanting to go cruising much anyway. I know if they were going to block off our marina, I dont think many would leave in a hurry....even I would be tempted to just sit tight till the last moment.....whatever that might be...

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The moorings income can't have slowed to a trickle and most certainly dried up.

 

 

Given the communications fro CRT directly to the moorers announcing impending disconnection, I'll be staggered if any of the moorings agreements falling due since that date have been renewed. Who in their right mind would stump up a year's moorings fee for a mooring even if there is only a small risk of it being be cut off from the system in a couple of months?

 

Are you really telling the board that people with expiring moorings agreements are continuing to renew and send in their cheques for a couple of grand for a year's mooring fees in advance to the office, even now? Honestly?

 

 

MtB

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Given the communications fro CRT directly to the moorers announcing impending disconnection, I'll be staggered if any of the moorings agreements falling due since that date have been renewed. Who in their right mind would stump up a year's moorings fee for a mooring even if there is only a small risk of it being be cut off from the system in a couple of months?

 

Are you really telling the board that people with expiring moorings agreements are continuing to renew and send in their cheques for a couple of grand for a year's mooring fees in advance to the office, even now? Honestly?

 

 

MtB

No I'm not saying that at all. I presume like me they are just paying month by month until they know what the situation is.

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People like Mr Steadman don't support lame duck businesses like Pillings for personal amusement, or because because they feel sorry for the moorers.

 

MtB

There is a fairly newly built (after Pillings) marina of similar or probably bigger size than Pillings that was rescued from financial disaster in recent years by a multi-millionaire. He bought it (and its sister) as a tax loss. No whisper of NAA not being paid there.

Have to say the marina I am referring to is also not in an ideal location, another case of "build it they will come", they haven't !

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To quote one M Thatcher "If you want the top people then you have to pay them the top salary".

 

Well, in that case how did we end up with the shower of intellectual bankrupts who seem to inhabit political and financial life?

The moorings income can't have slowed to a trickle and most certainly dried up. I have read on here that a couple of boats have left the marina. You would not know it when you look round the marina it's seems as busy as ever. I think people are holding out to see the outcome of the communications we received from cart on Monday and the email received from the marina today.

 

I think the general opinion seems to be that there is no pint making any hasty decisions at the moment. If I do have to leave which I really do not want to do. I won't do it until May (if at all) as I will be at my house in Spain when the closure is due to take place.

 

Is the email from the marina to which you refer been posted so far?

No I'm not saying that at all. I presume like me they are just paying month by month until they know what the situation is.

 

If the existing moorers whose agreement are expiring are paying monthly then this will have a real impact on PLM. Despite interest rates being at an all time low, future cash projections are as important as ever and these are somewhat difficult if a company does not know from one month to the next where its revenue is coming from or, indeed, whether it is coming at all.

 

True. I found that interlude pretty irritating too, despite contributing briefly myself!

 

Getting back on topic (and how the director salary discussion began) I'm wondering at what point in the future Lillie junior will stop paying himself the £60k a year, given that the moorings income has (presumably) slowed to a trickle if not completely dried up.

 

And how far away from insolvency is PLM too now, I wonder.

 

 

MtB

 

MtB. How far are we from the end of PLM's financial year when they will need to prepare and submit their next set of accounts? I seem to remember mention of June for past periods in which case, with some major questions in respect of the new company to be addressed before negotiations about a new NAA can commence, a new agreement might not be possible by that date. I do wonder how the PLM accounts would deal with the fact that the company did not have a product to sell.

Does the menu include "Larks' tongues. Otters' noses. Ocelot spleens."?

 

Why don't they sell proper food instead of those rich Roman titbits?

 

Blessed are the cheapskaters.

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I do wonder how the PLM accounts would deal with the fact that the company did not have a product to sell.

 

 

 

Not sure where you are going here, products would be Lake moorings and Le Bistro end of, quite simple really. Your remarks:-

Well, in that case how did we end up with the shower of intellectual bankrupts who seem to inhabit political and financial life?

Is well off topic, political and not needed on this thread

cheers.gif

A

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the greater the pressure on Mr Steadman to cave in and pay up.

It's difficult to see how, at this stage, he could, assuming he wanted to, or what it would achieve. The NAA no longer exists, the company that held the NAA is in liquidation (and therefore by definition beyond recovery - if it wasn't it would be in administration), and Mr S is, if I have followed correctly, neither a director or shareholder. He is not the freeholder, at least not until and unless the IP resolves his charge on the property, so "paying up" would neither reinstate the old NAA nor create a new one.

 

I suppose he could make a charitable donation to CRT for an equivalent amount, and CRT would probably be glad to receive it, but it wouldn't resolve the legal position regarding the defunct contract between CRT and the defunct company.

 

CRT are digging themselves into a position where they must blockade the marina, otherwise any number of other operators may pull the same stunt.

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