Open Government ! continued...

[Timleech]

A separate forum section, where either people who run courses or people who want to comment on courses could do so, would be a general exemption from your "no commercial advertising" rule for a particular class of business rather than for an individual. Moderators could decide what was relevant to boating and what was not.

 

 

 

It would be still commercial advertising, and favouring one particular class of business.

 

Not easy.

 

Tim

[Paul G2]

 

It would be still commercial advertising, and favouring one particular class of business.

 

Not easy.

 

Tim

 

Which is exactly my point. There's no law saying this website can't have commercial ads, it's simply the site's policy.

 

Actually, there already is a commercial section, it's called the "Links Directory". Maybe the hold should be removed from posts on that sub-section and see what happens. That would probably be the easiest route from an administrative standpoint.

[Albion]

Phil's course is decorative narrowboat painting and although he charges, it's hardly commercial as he no longer owns the paint company and you'll be a guest at his own gaff in Scotland for three days. Costs are less than you'd expect to pay for one day on any other 'normal' training course, unless he's hiked his prices recently.

 

You'll also need to be fascinated with Alpha Romeos...

This is all Greek to me Mike.

I suggest that Alfa might save you from the wrath of His Philness

Roger

Edited January 18, 2014 by Albion

[peterboat]

Phil's course is decorative narrowboat painting and although he charges, it's hardly commercial as he no longer owns the paint company and you'll be a guest at his own gaff in Scotland for three days. Costs are less than you'd expect to pay for one day on any other 'normal' training course, unless he's hiked his prices recently.

 

You'll also need to be fascinated with Alpha Romeos...

No P in alfa romeos I should know I have 4 of the blessed things

 

Peter

[dmr]

I believe there is already an advertising section in this forum, for sale and wants or something like that, but I never look at it.

 

If Phil is doing a course then that's an important event and I want to know about it, but I am not going to look in the for sale section every day just in case.

I think there is quite a difference between one off or occasional events, which should be in the forum, and mechanics and boat painters etc advertising that they are generally available.

I expect the forum members ourselves will police this and give a suitably hard time do tradesmen who create fictitious events:.

 

"Boatbuilder Bloggs would like to announce an open day at his yard every weekend where customers can get a 0.1% discount off his services" .

 

.........Dave

[Jerra]

I am not going to look in the for sale section every day just in case.

Just have a quick look at the View New Content page that way you would see anything new.

[Paul C]

Why is everyone afraid of advertising of services useful to boaters?

[FadeToScarlet]

Why is everyone afraid of advertising of services useful to boaters?

Because of the potential for advertising postings flooding the site. There are so many things useful for boaters, that the potential is there for them to get in the way- imagine, for example, a thread saying "I've broken down in Brentford", with the first five replies being from fuel polishers, mobile mechanics, boatyards, and someone offering a tow for money- which would drown out the helpful replies from members.

 

-------------

 

Just asan update, we've a draft advertising policy that Dan has put together and the mods and site admin are commenting and refining now. Hopefully we'll be able to put it in place soon.

[David Schweizer]

Can the forum not give a blanket authorisation to the (very) few regular contributers who wish to promote their "commercial" activities. Phil Speight has given an enormous amount of advice over the years about painting related matters, both directly and via PM. All he is asking for is approval to let people know about the infrequent courses he runs on boat decoration.

 

Phil's courses are not a continuos money making venture, and only seem to take place about once a year, He is not going to get rich on them, so why not ignore all the pompous, self opinionated barrack room lawyers and just say "yes"

[FadeToScarlet]

Can the forum not give a blanket authorisation to the (very) few regular contributers who wish to promote their "commercial" activities. Phil Speight has given an enormous amount of advice over the years about painting related matters, both directly and via PM. All he is asking for is approval to let people know about the infrequent courses he runs on boat decoration.

 

Phil's courses are not a continuos money making venture, and only seem to take place about once a year, He is not going to get rich on them, so why not ignore all the pompous, self opinionated barrack room lawyers and just say "yes"

That's the kind of thing that's being considered, yes.

[churchward]

Can the forum not give a blanket authorisation to the (very) few regular contributers who wish to promote their "commercial" activities. Phil Speight has given an enormous amount of advice over the years about painting related matters, both directly and via PM. All he is asking for is approval to let people know about the infrequent courses he runs on boat decoration.

 

Phil's courses are not a continuos money making venture, and only seem to take place about once a year, He is not going to get rich on them, so why not ignore all the pompous, self opinionated barrack room lawyers and just say "yes"

It's a fair point and I have no issue with it. However, one thing does sit a little uncomfortable with me in that the forum is quite inconsistent who it see as "OK" and who is not. I recall that Terrence a very fine canal art painter (also runs courses) got a rough ride on here more than once in regard to him mentioning his work.

 

It will be good to get a better definition from the forum leadership.

 

I also think Phil was being a bit cheeky making the request as a new topic on the forum rather than the more obvious route of PMing/emailing one of the mods or the site owner directly.

[Smelly]

Can the forum not give a blanket authorisation to the (very) few regular contributers who wish to promote their "commercial" activities. Phil Speight has given an enormous amount of advice over the years about painting related matters, both directly and via PM. All he is asking for is approval to let people know about the infrequent courses he runs on boat decoration. Phil's courses are not a continuos money making venture, and only seem to take place about once a year, He is not going to get rich on them, so why not ignore all the pompous, self opinionated barrack room lawyers and just say "yes"

I agree wholeheartedly

[Phil Speight]

This is all Greek to me Mike.

I suggest that Alfa might save you from the wrath of His Philness

Roger

Good man.

Sorry folks. I thought that an open post in General Boating would leave no -one questioning why the moderators had suddenly decided to allow my course advert - should they have decided to do so. Sorry in particular to the moderators if I have caused them extra work. As things stand I will not attempt to promote any course I may be planning on the Forum. "For Sale and Wanted" doesn`t work really and I have no wish to cause controversy else where.Neither do I want any sort of special treatment. So that stops all this I hope and I regret that I started it. As I said in the locked post - I won`t sulk - so nothing is lost

 

No P in alfa romeos I should know I have 4 of the blessed things At last - an other man of taste, discernment and endless patience.

 

Peter

Don`t know how the ABOVE bit got here !.

If your selling a service put it in sales & wanted or the links directory then no issue, businesses cheekily trying to sneak things into more popular areas isn't on and doing it by way of an open question to the mods is doubly cheeky. I've no idea what he's trying to flog but businesses should play by the rules.

K

I was flogging 40 years of experience as a painter as it happens. I was wrong ( it seems ) to do it the way I did. Won`t happen again.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Phil Speight

[Alan Saunders]

There is a simple simple solution - charge, say, £15 pa. for commercial ads. - Phil S etc. will not object but it will dissuade undesirable advertisers.

 

Maintain a free diary of boat related events like painting courses, open days, festivals, banters etc. - including paid-for events.

 

Keep any profits for yourself or donate to a charity -

 

Alan

[frangar]

Guys like Phil & Gibbo when he was here add loads to the forum even though they have a product to sell. I really don't see the harm in letting them post about courses etc. Some others might see it as unfair but put up or shut up I reckon. If you don't like it go somewhere else!

 

Let's remember that although some people in here think the world revolves around them it's a fairly niche hobby and market. Nobody is going to make their millions here...unless perhaps you are running a marina!!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Phil Speight]

An explanation may be in order. My courses are aimed either at those who would like to paint their own boat for the satisfaction of doing it and for those who couldn`t afford to pay a professional. This usually precludes those with huge amounts of money to throw at their latest craze - be it a boat or a vintage car.

A good course may have 10 paying students and a couple of Boat Museum trainees/volunteers who don`t pay. So, all in all it cannot be alllowed to become too pricey or my target audience, particularly those with little money, may not come. . It is in fact among the very cheapest weekend courses run by an experienced tutor at , shall we say less than a three figure sum per person. Sometimes there may be only 6 paying customers! I pay room rent, travel costs , refreshment costs for the pupils and my own living expenses - being 300 miles from home ! So WITHOUT PAYING FOR MAGAZINE ADVERTS. how much do you think I make for two days driving, two days teaching and prep. time? I simply cannot afford mainstream advertising as things are. The answer is probably to put the price up - but I`m trying not to if I can blag a bit of free publicity wherever I can find it ! This may be wrong of me and less than proper business practice - so I shall, until there is a universally fair way forward, not compromise the integrity of this forum a third time!

Incidentally - for those who don`t know - I count myself a BOAT painter. I`m NOT someone who paints roses and castles on anything other than boats when appropriate and on items used by the working boats. I felt the need to say that ! Dave Moore will understand !

[FadeToScarlet]

An explanation may be in order. My courses are aimed either at those who would like to paint their own boat for the satisfaction of doing it and for those who couldn`t afford to pay a professional. This usually precludes those with huge amounts of money to throw at their latest craze - be it a boat or a vintage car.

A good course may have 10 paying students and a couple of Boat Museum trainees/volunteers who don`t pay. So, all in all it cannot be alllowed to become too pricey or my target audience, particularly those with little money, may not come. . It is in fact among the very cheapest weekend courses run by an experienced tutor at , shall we say less than a three figure sum per person. Sometimes there may be only 6 paying customers! I pay room rent, travel costs , refreshment costs for the pupils and my own living expenses - being 300 miles from home ! So WITHOUT PAYING FOR MAGAZINE ADVERTS. how much do you think I make for two days driving, two days teaching and prep. time? I simply cannot afford mainstream advertising as things are. The answer is probably to put the price up - but I`m trying not to if I can blag a bit of free publicity wherever I can find it ! This may be wrong of me and less than proper business practice - so I shall, until there is a universally fair way forward, not compromise the integrity of this forum a third time!

Incidentally - for those who don`t know - I count myself a BOAT painter. I`m NOT someone who paints roses and castles on anything other than boats when appropriate and on items used by the working boats. I felt the need to say that ! Dave Moore will understand !

Don't worry Phil, we've got a draft advertising policy we're reviewing now that will allow yourself and other small traders to advertise here if you wish.

[Tuscan]

Don't worry Phil, we've got a draft advertising policy we're reviewing now that will allow yourself and other small traders to advertise here if you wish.[/

 

I think Phil as he no doubt planned has successfully managed to get all the free publicity he needs and fair play to him.

[Phil Speight]

Don't worry Phil, we've got a draft advertising policy we're reviewing now that will allow yourself and other small traders to advertise here if you wish.[/

 

I think Phil as he no doubt planned has successfully managed to get all the free publicity he needs and fair play to him.

Believe it or not that was not my intention. I started all this by openly asking for permission to advertise and asking for a simple yes or no ! Either would have stopped the stream dead as far as I`m concerned I I have not mentioned dates or actual prices anywhere in this stream. I`ll probably bight the bullet and put an ad. in Towpath Talk .

[Nightwatch]

I don't have a problem with anyone mentioning this sort of thing. It's up to 'me' to decide whether to follow it up.

 

However, why don't you just put it in the For sale section?

 

Martyn

[MtB]

However, why don't you just put it in the For sale section?

 

Martyn

 

Because Phil's courses will have long finished by the time the ad gets approved by a mod...?

 

 

MtB

[Tesla]

Because Phil's courses will have long finished by the time the ad gets approved by a mod...?

 

 

MtB

Oi behave!

[David Schweizer]

Oi behave!

 

It may not be true now, but I placed an advert a cuple of years ago, and four weeks later it hadn't been approved. The mods tried to say I had never posted it, then one of them found it an archive or something.

[Grace and Favour]

 

It may not be true now, but I placed an advert a cuple of years ago, and four weeks later it hadn't been approved. The mods tried to say I had never posted it, then one of them found it an archive or something.

I'm not doubting yhat may have happened, David - - all I can say is we do our best to keep up to date with all aspects of the forum, including advertisements. Obviously the 'workload' on each of the mods has been eased since our number's been increased recently.