Some tips please for the Thames

[OldGoat]

Thank you all for your great advice. The boat we are hiring is 62' so I presume we will be able to turn it at some point. I suppose you need to judge which way to moor depending on the flow of water and where you are stopping.

Only thing which has me a bit puzzled is the instruction to use a bow and stern line in locks but not to wrap them around the bollards, if one of us is on the boat and one lock side I presume the stern line can be looped around a bollard and held by the 'driver'. We do not usually use lines in a lock but I presume that Thames locks are much longer than the usual 70' and you use your lines to hold you in position so not to crush any other craft sharing with you.

 

Perhaps - for brevity's sake _ I didn't explain things is fuller detail.

 

So here goes -

If controlling the line you take a simple half turn around the bollard and take the free end back on board. If desired do the same on the T-stud or whatever you have at the back end of the boat. If you take a full turn at the lockside end there is a very strong possibility that the line will jam. It happens all the time and boats get hung up. Even happens to me at the boat end where I take a loose full turn to stop the free end dangling in the water (and I'm chatting to the Lockie). If the lockie is attentive he / she will take the turn off and glare at you .

 

The same applies if you have a crew member on the lockside - the line can get caught. It's easier to take a half turn and loop the free end over the ear of the bollard which will take any strain that you need.

 

Does than make more sense?

[Keeping Up]

When I first narrowboated on rivers I always followed the conventional advice of turning to face upstream but I soon became uncomfortable with several issues. I am never happy at having someone jumping off the bows nearly 70ft ahead of me where I can't see what is happening or if they have fallen in the flowing water between the boat and the bank.

 

If my crew jumps ashore from the stern they will have to take a centre line because there will not be time for them to run and fetch the bow line but when the current is powerful there is a real risk of the bows starting to drift out before they have the centre line tight and under full control, and it easily gets pulled across the river. Then of course the crew cannot leave the centre line while they fetch the bow line, so I have to get off to help. The only reliable solution would be to have 70ft bow ropes that the crew could take with them but it is not easy to gather in that much rope quickly and safely.

 

When mooring with the flow which I now do whenever I can, I simply use reverse to bring the boat to a standstill with the stern by the bank so it is easy and safe for my crew if I have one or myself if I don't, to step off and secure the stern line. Of course the boat doesn't steer in reverse and it may occassionally be necessary to make 2 or 3 attempts but that's not a problem. I wouldn't do it that way if my boat was short or light-weight, but I know that it's the best way for me, and have successfully safely and undramatically moored that way with a current of well over 5mph behind me.

[cereal tiller]

When I first narrowboated on rivers I always followed the conventional advice of turning to face upstream but I soon became uncomfortable with several issues. I am never happy at having someone jumping off the bows nearly 70ft ahead of me where I can't see what is happening or if they have fallen in the flowing water between the boat and the bank.

 

If my crew jumps ashore from the stern they will have to take a centre line because there will not be time for them to run and fetch the bow line but when the current is powerful there is a real risk of the bows starting to drift out before they have the centre line tight and under full control, and it easily gets pulled across the river. Then of course the crew cannot leave the centre line while they fetch the bow line, so I have to get off to help. The only reliable solution would be to have 70ft bow ropes that the crew could take with them but it is not easy to gather in that much rope quickly and safely.

 

When mooring with the flow which I now do whenever I can, I simply use reverse to bring the boat to a standstill with the stern by the bank so it is easy and safe for my crew if I have one or myself if I don't, to step off and secure the stern line. Of course the boat doesn't steer in reverse and it may occassionally be necessary to make 2 or 3 attempts but that's not a problem. I wouldn't do it that way if my boat was short or light-weight, but I know that it's the best way for me, and have successfully safely and undramatically moored that way with a current of well over 5mph behind me.

I was told (as a teenager,and that was some considerable time ago!),that amateurs leap off the bow off a boat,seasoned boaters Step off the stern!

[Naughty Cal]

 

Ah yes, and the OP should bear in mind Naughty Cal has a track record of handing out advice on subjects she has no experience of.

 

Stick to the recipes Phylis!

 

 

MtB

Oh no I never cruise on rivers at all!

[billS]

Cruising on rivers in a 2-3 ton plastic boat with lots of power but limited directional stability, and a cruising on rivers in a 15 ton lump of metal are actually two different things in my experience. What may be right for one will not necessarily be right for the other in all situations

 

If some inexperienced hirer was to follow your advice and always turn to face the stream when mooring in a narrrowboat - just because you say it's the right thing to do - it could get them into a lot of trouble.

 

People respect your experience in handling your type of boat. Have the good sense to respect others people's experience in a type of boat which you have little or no personal experience with.

[Naughty Cal]

Cruising on rivers in a 2-3 ton plastic boat with lots of power but limited directional stability, and a cruising on rivers in a 15 ton lump of metal are actually two different things in my experience. What may be right for one will not necessarily be right for the other in all situations

 

If some inexperienced hirer was to follow your advice and always turn to face the stream when mooring in a narrrowboat - just because you say it's the right thing to do - it could get them into a lot of trouble.

 

People respect your experience in handling your type of boat. Have the good sense to respect others people's experience in a type of boat which you have little or no personal experience with.

Equally telling them that it is all fine and dandy to moor with the flow on a river could land them in serious trouble.

 

Could a low powered boat moor with this flow?

 

Cruising on rivers in a 2-3 ton plastic boat with lots of power but limited directional stability, and a cruising on rivers in a 15 ton lump of metal are actually two different things in my experience. What may be right for one will not necessarily be right for the other in all situations

 

If some inexperienced hirer was to follow your advice and always turn to face the stream when mooring in a narrrowboat - just because you say it's the right thing to do - it could get them into a lot of trouble.

 

People respect your experience in handling your type of boat. Have the good sense to respect others people's experience in a type of boat which you have little or no personal experience with.

What limited directional stability?

[Tam & Di]

Oh no I never cruise on rivers at all!

 

The OP is hiring a 62' narrowboat and cruising on the Thames where it is impossible to chuck round above/below the lock in many cases. He has hired similar craft before, and he is being given sound advice by people who have experience of similar conditions. Why do you feel it necessary to try to start a war? Whatever experience you do have it is not really relevant here and you are just making yourself appear foolish.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Tam & Di

[Naughty Cal]

 

The OP is hiring a 62' narrowboat and cruising on the Thames where it is impossible to chuck round above/below the lock in many cases. He has hired similar craft before, and he is being given sound advice by people who have experience of similar conditions. Why do you feel it necessary to try to start a war? Whatever experience you do have it is not really relevant here and you are just making yourself appear foolish.

Ok let's just pretend that rivers are like canals and there is nothing to worry about.

 

Strange that there are so many boats in trouble on rivers at the moment though if that is the case. Must be something in the water!

[RichardN]

As soneone has already pointed out in most places the Thames is gentle so the upstream / downstream mooring argument is a little academic. I always thought that the logic for mooring pointing upstream was that you have a load more control going upstream and crud does not get jammed against your propellor overnight. Mooring upstream works for us, it is unusual for us to moor pointing downstream but have done so using a touch of reverse and securing the back first.

 

Don't let your crew jump ashore - they should direct you in and then step ashore. I am sure you have seen it but the Boaters Handbook is full of sensible advice. Link here.

 

Other than that it is hard to add anything to Old Goat's comprehensive list.

 

Edit: Do not turn the boat to moor at a lock landing and yes I would worry about trying to turn in some lock cuts

Edited January 15, 2014 by RichardN

[Timleech]

Above Oxford it's a bit different, the river gets narrow and twisty. I wouldn't bother with upstream of Oxford if I were you, it's dead boring in my opinion

 

Cue a storm of contradiction!

 

 

MtB

 

 

My view is the complete opposite, the best of the Thames is above Reading and especially above Oxford

 

Tim

[billS]

 

Could a low powered boat moor with this flow?

 

 

 

Why would it? - it looks like there is plenty of room to turn there An experienced narrowboater would use his judgement. Equally there are other places on the system where turning into the flow is difficult or impossible due to the width of the river - Woolhampton swing bridge for instance, where the flow can be above 4mph.

 

Developing the skills to be able to moor a narrowboat with the flow is important for situations like these. Declaring it to be wrong would be stupid.

 

No one is saying or pretending that boating and mooring on flowing rivers is the same as canals.

 

 

What limited directional stability? How well does your boat steer with the power off?

 

Edited January 15, 2014 by billS

[Naughty Cal]

 

Why would it? - it looks like there is plenty of room to turn there An experienced narrowboater would use his judgement. Equally there are other places on the system where turning into the flow is difficult or impossible due to the width of the river - Woolhampton swing bridge for instance, where the flow can be above 4mph.

 

Developing the skills to be able to moor a narrowboat with the flow is important for situations like these. Declaring it to be wrong would be stupid.

 

No one is saying or pretending that boating and mooring on flowing rivers is the same as canals.

 

 

What limited directional stability? How well does your boat steer with the power off?

 

Yes they are!

 

How well does any boat steer with the power off?

[billS]

No they are not!

 

 

Buttys steer rather well. Narrowboats with large rudders quite well. Boats with outdrives and no rudder - poorly.

[Naughty Cal]

No they are not!

 

 

Buttys steer rather well. Narrowboats with large rudders quite well. Boats with outdrives and no rudder - poorly.

Have you seen an out drive?

[billS]

Of course I've seen an outdrive, many of them in fact. I have owned several boats with them, and steered many more. Water jets too on inshore lifeboats. What's your point?

Edited January 15, 2014 by billS

[Naughty Cal]

Of course I've seen an outdrive, many of them in fact. I have owned several boats with them, and steered many more. Water jets too on inshore lifeboats. What's your point?

And does the shape of the drive not remind you of anything?

[billS]

upturned periscope? bottom of a drainpipe? still struggling to see your point here - go on, help me out

[ditchcrawler]

At normal flow rate the Thames is moving at less than ONE mile per hour.

 

I can think of at least a dozen moorings where the current actually flows backwards,when mooring up,usually where the shape of a bend or island causes a back eddy.

 

When single -handing our boat i find it is often easier to step off the stern with a mid and stern line and the boat pointing down stream.

 

In normal flow conditions the OP not encounter much difficulty.

CT

Tadpole Bridge is one of them , but I suffer it because I enjoy eating at the pub.

[Naughty Cal]

upturned periscope? bottom of a drainpipe? still struggling to see your point here - go on, help me out

You must have seen some very odd periscopes and drain pipes

 

Have another go.

 

[MtB]

Looks nothing like a rudder to me. Can't imagine that steering a boat at all without the blade turning, unlike a rudder.

 

But then I have little experience of trying to steer using just an outdrive, unlike Phylis, so I'd expect her to know.

 

MtB

[billS]

Thats just a picture of an outdrive - it reminds me of the bottom of an outboard motor, but then it would. Tell me what you think it should remind me of.

[Naughty Cal]

Looks nothing like a rudder to me. Can't imagine that steering a boat at all without the blade turning, unlike a rudder.

 

But then I have little experience of trying to steer using just an outdrive, unlike Phylis, so I'd expect her to know.

 

MtB

It will indeed steer the boat (in an emergency as we have found out) with surprising results if for whatever reason you find yourself without propulsion.

 

Of course it is designed to be used in conjunction with propulsion as is your bog standard narrowboat rudder (butties not included).

Thats just a picture of an outdrive - it reminds me of the bottom of an outboard motor, but then it would. Tell me what you think it should remind me of.

 

You have seen some strange outboards as well then.

Cruising on rivers in a 2-3 ton plastic boat with lots of power but limited directional stability, and a cruising on rivers in a 15 ton lump of metal are actually two different things in my experience. What may be right for one will not necessarily be right for the other in all situations

 

If some inexperienced hirer was to follow your advice and always turn to face the stream when mooring in a narrrowboat - just because you say it's the right thing to do - it could get them into a lot of trouble.

 

People respect your experience in handling your type of boat. Have the good sense to respect others people's experience in a type of boat which you have little or no personal experience with.

 

Obviously!!

 

 

[alan_fincher]

 

The OP is hiring a 62' narrowboat and cruising on the Thames where it is impossible to chuck round above/below the lock in many cases. He has hired similar craft before, and he is being given sound advice by people who have experience of similar conditions. Why do you feel it necessary to try to start a war? Whatever experience you do have it is not really relevant here and you are just making yourself appear foolish.

 

Because it's what she like to do from time to time, isn't it?

 

Rachael has almost zero experience of handling a long steel narrow boat, (if any), and I suspect probably not much experience of the Thames either.

 

But, (true to form!), she of course knows far, far more about it than those who do have.

 

Hopefully the OP, who I suspect knows a fair amount about handling a narrow boat, can make a good call on which advice is really relevant to the actual question they asked.

[Naughty Cal]

 

Because it's what she like to do from time to time, isn't it?

 

Rachael has almost zero experience of handling a long steel narrow boat, (if any), and I suspect probably not much experience of the Thames either.

 

But, (true to form!), she of course knows far, far more about it than those who do have.

 

Hopefully the OP, who I suspect knows a fair amount about handling a narrow boat, can make a good call on which advice is really relevant to the actual question they asked.

 

I truly hope the OP has a fantastic time on the Thames and stays safe.

 

I also hope that no damage is caused to other peoples boats if they attempt some of the manouvres suggested on here.

[alan_fincher]

Whilst not wishing to play down any risks, I think it is fair to say that hire narrow boats have been visiting the Thames for at least 50 years, and I'm not aware of any statistic that says they get themselves into more trouble than do private boaters - quite probably less I suspect.

 

When I was sending off hire boaters to do the Thames Ring in the early 1970s about the only concession that was made over canal narrow-boating was that a bucket and chuck it Elsan Bristol toilet had to be put on board, because unlike the canals of the day, sea toilets were already not allowed. I can't even remember an anchor being supplied, although clearly these days they would be. 8 berth boats had a meagre 13HP Lister SR2, so far less power available than on the modern equivalent.

 

Although you might like to predict constant doom and gloom, I'm not convinced much bad ever happened, and probably no worse than hire boaters are regularly capable of on canals, where cilling in locks now seems to have become a fairly common incident.

 

If the OP has hired narrow boats for at least 10 years, they will be absolutely fine if the follow advice from people like Allan Jones who spends large amounts of time with a near full length narrow boat on rivers, and certainly knows exactly what he is doing.