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CRT Press Release - Spreading the work about the demands of living afloat


Leo No2

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That's an interesting slant on it, and I can see how it would cause confusion. But AFAIK the official line is its never been about distance, but following the guidelines they publish which relate to place-to-place being bona fide navigation.

 

I might be starting to sound repetitive but this would surely be the time (now they are planning to talk to liveaboard / CCers) to actually clarify the various 'rumours' and intepretations that have been floating about the last few years.

 

If you dont know what the rules are, how can you be penalised if you break them

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I might be starting to sound repetitive but this would surely be the time (now they are planning to talk to liveaboard / CCers) to actually clarify the various 'rumours' and intepretations that have been floating about the last few years.

 

If you dont know what the rules are, how can you be penalised if you break them

 

Agree, and the new tactic presented in the press release in post #1 seems a reasonable way to do it.

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Wouldn't it be simpler just to charge everyone without a home mooring either a non-residential or a residential mooring fee?

 

Which would in effect be punishing those who accept and abide by the rules as they currently exist. Hardly a fair solution!

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Simple solution to the CC problem.

Make CC licence more than a "home mooring" licence.

Most of the problems, seem to me, to stem from folk wanting to live as cheaply as possiable, with no true regard to what they have signed up to.

To counter the genuine CC's concerns, after a qualifing period, 1-2 years(?) a discounted licence is available.

 

Bod

  • Greenie 1
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Simple solution to the CC problem.

Make CC licence more than a "home mooring" licence.

Most of the problems, seem to me, to stem from folk wanting to live as cheaply as possiable, with no true regard to what they have signed up to.

To counter the genuine CC's concerns, after a qualifing period, 1-2 years(?) a discounted licence is available.

 

Bod

1. Why should someone pay extra for the same or less services/rights.

2. Once the two years are up you come back to the same impasse about what qualifies someone as a "genuine" cc-er.

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This was why I asked the question - I seem to remember towards the end of last year that a figure of 20km's (or maybe 20 miles) per year had been quoted by C&RT as a guideline for CC compliance.

A hire company would regard this as a short break. Not enough for a week's boating. sad.png

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A boat moves up and down a piece of canal.

CRT tell them they haven't travelled enough.

They are forced to buy a home mooring.

They don't like living in a marina, so they cruise.

and move up and down the same piece of canal.

 

just like they used to.

 

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

The logic seems flawed.

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If you dont know what the rules are, how can you be penalised if you break them

 

But you do know what the rules are. They are explained on your licence application when you choose which type of licence to apply for. A CCer must be engaged in bona fide navigation.

.

BW/CRT tolerate ridiculously slack definitions of "bona fide navigation" and therein lies the problem. Boaters have become accustomed to this slackness and having been given several inches now expect yards more.

 

In my view this debate will not subside until CRT put a distance on what CCing means. If one thinks about it dispassionately, anyone genuinely engaged in bona fide navigation (in the real English language sense of the term) will end up traveling several hundred miles a year. Therein lies the answer but I think it will take another decade before CRT man up and state a truly reasonable distance.

 

MtB

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But you do know what the rules are. They are explained on your licence application when you choose which type of licence to apply for. A CCer must be engaged in bona fide navigation.

.

 

MtB

 

Totally in agreement and I probably do more miles on a summers day than some of the alleged CCers do in a year (Not the real CCers).

 

Signing to be a CCer I still maintain is a bit like driving down the road and seeing a sign saying "speed limit ahead but we are not going to tell you what it is"

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But you do know what the rules are. They are explained on your licence application when you choose which type of licence to apply for. A CCer must be engaged in bona fide navigation.

.

BW/CRT tolerate ridiculously slack definitions of "bona fide navigation" and therein lies the problem. Boaters have become accustomed to this slackness and having been given several inches now expect yards more.

 

In my view this debate will not subside until CRT put a distance on what CCing means. If one thinks about it dispassionately, anyone genuinely engaged in bona fide navigation (in the real English language sense of the term) will end up traveling several hundred miles a year. Therein lies the answer but I think it will take another decade before CRT man up and state a truly reasonable distance.

 

MtB

Blah blah blah.

 

It's not about your definition of navigation. Navigation means only one thong, moving the boat. Distance, or direction, are not relevant, other than in anybodies personal, subjective opinion. As long as you move your boat, you are 'navigating'. (As a coastal boaters, I now use the term ' navigating' with some reservation when talking about canal boating...)

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As I imagined at the outset it would be guaranteed to, this truly has already turned into another "Groundhog Day" thread!

Exactly. Which should be a good enough reason for CaRT to set out some proper rules and regs.

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Blah blah blah.

It's not about your definition of navigation. Navigation means only one thong, moving the boat. (As a coastal boaters, I now use the term ' navigating' with some reservation when talking about canal boating...)

I look up to him because he navigates on the sea.

I look down on him because he navigates on the canals.

I know my place is wearing a thong...

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Blah blah blah.

 

It's not about your definition of navigation. Navigation means only one thong, moving the boat. Distance, or direction, are not relevant, other than in anybodies personal, subjective opinion. As long as you move your boat, you are 'navigating'. (As a coastal boaters, I now use the term ' navigating' with some reservation when talking about canal boating...)

 

Agreed. It should be about the fictional 'man on the Clapham omnibus''s definition.

 

And that is what I was attempting to second-guess.

 

 

MtB

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Sorry, am I missing something?

 

As someone who is about to apply for their first C&RT license and plan on it being a license with no home mooring (CC). I would not have a problem if the rule for a CC license were to include something like.....must travel a minimum of 50 miles or even 100 miles during the year of the license, along with the limitation of staying in any one given place for 14 days. Due to our size we are limited to a cruising distance of Warwick on the GU down to Reading and then on the K&A to Bristol. We plan on doing that entire route as often as possible (ice & stoppages taken into consideration of course). Isn't that the whole idea of being a CC'er?

 

I appreciate it is much easier for us than some others as, neither of us are trying to hold down jobs away from the boat, we do not have children attending school and nor do we have land based families we need to be close to.

 

What I would like to see is clearer divination of "place". At present if we were to stay at one mooring for 13 days (unlikely, but never say never) and move on day 14, I have no idea how far we have to travel to abide within the terms of our license, and this both worries and frustrates me. I've read somewhere that a "place" can be taken as a parish, but then I've also read that that is only a guideline in some counties, but not all. The whole thing is very grey. IMO the authorities who take responsibilities of collecting the fees to travel, live & maintain the canals need to make the guidelines very clear so the people, like ourselves, who wish to live on the canals while abiding by the rules have a clear set of guidelines to follow.

 

Yes, I do get the "A to B to C to D to B to C to D to E to B and so on, not what our plan is, so not really worried about that. But is there anywhere that states clearly the distance between A & B? This could come in quite handy if stuck between two closures or if needing to travel in bad weather or ice.

 

Sorry for the rant unsure.png

 

B~

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To me this seems a simple process to evaluate new CCers in the first year of their licence period. A quick intervention after 3 months to be followed by 9 months of monitoring, after which time it could be that if CRT is "not satisfied" that CCing is genuinely taking place, then the options would be to take a home mooring for the licence in year 2 or leave the waterways as a new CC licence would not be forthcoming.

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Sorry, am I missing something?

 

As someone who is about to apply for their first C&RT license and plan on it being a license with no home mooring (CC). I would not have a problem if the rule for a CC license were to include something like.....must travel a minimum of 50 miles or even 100 miles during the year of the license, along with the limitation of staying in any one given place for 14 days. Due to our size we are limited to a cruising distance of Warwick on the GU down to Reading and then on the K&A to Bristol. We plan on doing that entire route as often as possible (ice & stoppages taken into consideration of course). Isn't that the whole idea of being a CC'er?

 

I appreciate it is much easier for us than some others as, neither of us are trying to hold down jobs away from the boat, we do not have children attending school and nor do we have land based families we need to be close to.

 

What I would like to see is clearer divination of "place". At present if we were to stay at one mooring for 13 days (unlikely, but never say never) and move on day 14, I have no idea how far we have to travel to abide within the terms of our license, and this both worries and frustrates me. I've read somewhere that a "place" can be taken as a parish, but then I've also read that that is only a guideline in some counties, but not all. The whole thing is very grey. IMO the authorities who take responsibilities of collecting the fees to travel, live & maintain the canals need to make the guidelines very clear so the people, like ourselves, who wish to live on the canals while abiding by the rules have a clear set of guidelines to follow.

 

Yes, I do get the "A to B to C to D to B to C to D to E to B and so on, not what our plan is, so not really worried about that. But is there anywhere that states clearly the distance between A & B? This could come in quite handy if stuck between two closures or if needing to travel in bad weather or ice.

 

Sorry for the rant unsure.png

 

B~

 

Adding in a required minimum distance would make things simpler, but the underlying law doesn't have it so it would need a change to this - which is unlikely. Hence we are 'stuck' with the current wording of the law and an interpretation with "place to place" in it.

 

I believe progress is being made on CRT defining and publicising what counts (or doesn't count) as a place. I've never really struggled with the "what is a place" conundrum, it being fairly obvious for the localities I know. Possibly if I went into unfamiliar waters, I'd need to consult a map to know the places on it.

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Sorry, am I missing something?

 

As someone who is about to apply for their first C&RT license and plan on it being a license with no home mooring (CC). I would not have a problem if the rule for a CC license were to include something like.....must travel a minimum of 50 miles or even 100 miles during the year of the license, along with the limitation of staying in any one given place for 14 days. Due to our size we are limited to a cruising distance of Warwick on the GU down to Reading and then on the K&A to Bristol. We plan on doing that entire route as often as possible (ice & stoppages taken into consideration of course). Isn't that the whole idea of being a CC'er?

 

I appreciate it is much easier for us than some others as, neither of us are trying to hold down jobs away from the boat, we do not have children attending school and nor do we have land based families we need to be close to.

 

What I would like to see is clearer divination of "place". At present if we were to stay at one mooring for 13 days (unlikely, but never say never) and move on day 14, I have no idea how far we have to travel to abide within the terms of our license, and this both worries and frustrates me. I've read somewhere that a "place" can be taken as a parish, but then I've also read that that is only a guideline in some counties, but not all. The whole thing is very grey. IMO the authorities who take responsibilities of collecting the fees to travel, live & maintain the canals need to make the guidelines very clear so the people, like ourselves, who wish to live on the canals while abiding by the rules have a clear set of guidelines to follow.

 

Yes, I do get the "A to B to C to D to B to C to D to E to B and so on, not what our plan is, so not really worried about that. But is there anywhere that states clearly the distance between A & B? This could come in quite handy if stuck between two closures or if needing to travel in bad weather or ice.

 

Sorry for the rant :unsure:

 

B~

It's not how far you travel with one movement after a 14 day stay. It's a continuous journey, ie, continuing along your way. Not constantly trudging up and down a "chosen" small stretch of canal. You may only move on a mile to your next stop, and that's fine.
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