CRT evictions of disabled boaters

[Catrin]

 

Perhaps maximisation of audience isn't important. I cant speak for Nigel but i certainly dont care how many people read my posts

 

Also, If a tiny increase of 'work' due to font size puts someone off reading his posts then they probably dont have the intelligence to understand them anyway as they sometimes do require a bit of effort or more than one read through to grasp the point

 

I dont really understand why he gets a hard time on here

The change in the level of work is likely to be imperceptible to the average reader.

 

I taught ICT and Computing to all ages (including adults) for 30 years. I also specialised in Literacy when I did my first teaching qualification (English and Drama - the second one was in Computing), so I have a particular interest in how information can be presented so that it is more easily read.

 

It may seem like a tiny amount, but putting more effort onto your reader makes them more likely to click on something else, the Internet is not like a book, the style of each page is different, the colours are different - and you can quickly go somewhere else. This is not just a matter of intelligence - some people are limited in using computers by vision problems, or other disabilities. You are interested, so will make the effort. I'm assuming that Nigel wants to get the casual reader too.

 

A large part of my job was making the students understand that just because you can make things what they considered 'more interesting', it puts more effort onto your reader. As a simple example, not using pointsizes: "We bought the beer, we drank the beer" takes marginally less time to process than "We bought the beer, we drank it".

 

If someone is posting something for someone else to read then they need to make the effort to reduce the effort for their readers. I am a very fluent reader, but if I come across something where I have to stop to work out what the sentence means because it has been poorly punctuated, or if they have used "textspeak" then it puts the effort onto me, and not onto them. In the same way a change of font changes the way that my eyes scan the screen - it's the literacy equivalent of reaching a slight slope when out walking. If I'm interested in going up the slope then I will, but if you could click to go elsewhere, then many people might chose to do so.

 

Anyway, what Nigel has posted is much easier to read now.

[Guest]

Perfect example of a lengthy but easy to read post.

[NigelMoore]

However, given that this is the only tool available to CRT to deal with persistent abusers of the system, how do you suggest CRT proceed other than by means of this tool, in order to halt and hopefully reverse the recent proliferation of such abuse? Or perhaps you don't regard it as abuse and think that anyone should be able to moor wherever they like for as long as they like, effectively taking up residence on a patch of public land /water as if they had built a house there?

 

I also maintain that there is no right to live on the waterways. It is allowed under certain conditions but of you breach those conditions and are unwilling to even try to comply, you should be evicted. It is exactly the same for land-based dwellers who breach the terms of their mortgage, rent agreement or who create a persistent public nuisance. In all those cases, you are evicted, made homeless and are then at the mercy of the local council. Why should water dwellers be treated differently?

 

I hoped that I had clarified that there were other tools for managing the majority of situations. If a particular situation genuinely dealt with a persistent and defiant abuser of the system who refused, with no justification, to comply with the law, then I would support the use of s.8 to seize and remove the boat in question.

 

Not only would I fully support such action, I have taken analogous action myself in the past, without the slightest compunction. The perceived problem discussed here is inappropriate abuse of powers, not the legitimate use of them. Using s.8 as a threat for the ‘benefit’ of the law-abiding is distasteful, and often its deployment not only falls foul of the HRA [like it or not], but is all too eagerly entered into, in situations where no justification exists.

 

The unctuous assurances of the CaRT rejoinder to this situation notwithstanding, their past history speaks for itself. Some good will come of all this only if they strive to live up to the picture they are painting of themselves. Perhaps they will begin to, under the pressure of bad PR, and so long as the desired result eventuates, I don’t much care what prompts it [i do, a bit].

[Guest]

I hoped that I had clarified that there were other tools for managing the majority of situations. If a particular situation genuinely dealt with a persistent and defiant abuser of the system who refused, with no justification, to comply with the law, then I would support the use of s.8 to seize and remove the boat in question. Not only would I fully support such action, I have taken analogous action myself in the past, without the slightest compunction. The perceived problem discussed here is inappropriate abuse of powers, not the legitimate use of them. Using s.8 as a threat for the benefit of the law-abiding is distasteful, and often its deployment not only falls foul of the HRA [like it or not], but is all too eagerly entered into, in situations where no justification exists. The unctuous assurances of the CaRT rejoinder to this situation notwithstanding, their past history speaks for itself. Some good will come of all this only if they strive to live up to the picture they are painting of themselves. Perhaps they will begin to, under the pressure of bad PR, and so long as the desired result eventuates, I dont much care what prompts it [i do, a bit].

Is not the point though that it appears in these cases CRT have gone down the road of exploring all options.

 

You appear to dismiss it as 'the leopard appears to have changed it's spots" when in fact they may have approached similar cases previously in exactly the same way.

 

just what would satisfy you as a publicity campaign?

 

'Pretty please pay for your licence??'

Edited January 8, 2014 by The Dog House

[FadeToScarlet]

The change in the level of work is likely to be imperceptible to the average reader.

 

I taught ICT and Computing to all ages (including adults) for 30 years. I also specialised in Literacy when I did my first teaching qualification (English and Drama - the second one was in Computing), so I have a particular interest in how information can be presented so that it is more easily read.

 

It may seem like a tiny amount, but putting more effort onto your reader makes them more likely to click on something else, the Internet is not like a book, the style of each page is different, the colours are different - and you can quickly go somewhere else. This is not just a matter of intelligence - some people are limited in using computers by vision problems, or other disabilities. You are interested, so will make the effort. I'm assuming that Nigel wants to get the casual reader too.

 

A large part of my job was making the students understand that just because you can make things what they considered 'more interesting', it puts more effort onto your reader. As a simple example, not using pointsizes: "We bought the beer, we drank the beer" takes marginally less time to process than "We bought the beer, we drank it".

 

If someone is posting something for someone else to read then they need to make the effort to reduce the effort for their readers. I am a very fluent reader, but if I come across something where I have to stop to work out what the sentence means because it has been poorly punctuated, or if they have used "textspeak" then it puts the effort onto me, and not onto them. In the same way a change of font changes the way that my eyes scan the screen - it's the literacy equivalent of reaching a slight slope when out walking. If I'm interested in going up the slope then I will, but if you could click to go elsewhere, then many people might chose to do so.

 

Anyway, what Nigel has posted is much easier to read now.

tl;dr

 

 

 

(Of course, I did really, I just couldn't resist!)

[Paul C]

 

I hoped that I had clarified that there were other tools for managing the majority of situations. If a particular situation genuinely dealt with a persistent and defiant abuser of the system who refused, with no justification, to comply with the law, then I would support the use of s.8 to seize and remove the boat in question.

 

 

 

Can you list the other tools please? I know you may have done already, but it has gotten lost in the quantity of posts criticising your posting style (which I had no issues with, by the way).

 

I think the case highlighted in the thread of "Maggie" (I shudder to name him/her) are exactly as you describe to support s.8

[Catrin]

tl;dr

 

 

 

(Of course, I did really, I just couldn't resist!)

Yeah, always a difficult decision. Write more and bore people, cut bits out, and it becomes less clear. Ah well.....

[MtB]

If someone is posting something for someone else to read then they need to make the effort to reduce the effort for their readers. I am a very fluent reader, but if I come across something where I have to stop to work out what the sentence means because it has been poorly punctuated, or if they have used "textspeak" then it puts the effort onto me, and not onto them. In the same way a change of font changes the way that my eyes scan the screen - it's the literacy equivalent of reaching a slight slope when out walking. If I'm interested in going up the slope then I will, but if you could click to go elsewhere, then many people might chose to do so.

 

 

Quite agree. I find that on screen, a sans serif font is a little easier to read. Upper and lower case typing is a little easier to read. Text the same as all the other posts is a little easier to read as no 'gear change' as you so aptly put it, is needed. Conversely I find WRITING IN ALL CAPITALS requires loads more processing time and effort, and similarly with a large font size especially if bold.

 

Oddly on real paper though, I find a Serif font e.g. Times New Roman easier on the eye.

 

MtB

[Catrin]

 

Quite agree. I find that on screen, a sans serif font is a little easier to read. Upper and lower case typing is a little easier to read. Text the same as all the other posts is a little easier to read as no 'gear change' as you so aptly put it, is needed. Conversely I find WRITING IN ALL CAPITALS requires loads more processing time and effort, and similarly with a large font size especially if bold.

 

Oddly on real paper though, I find a Serif font e.g. Times New Roman easier on the eye.

 

MtB

Yes, I don't intend to continue this topic derail, however..... For reading on screen then sans serif fonts are best (perhaps one of the fonts designed for the Internet, like Verdana or Trebuchet or Calibri), for newspapers and books, serif fonts - on the page the serif seems to help to 'lead the eye'.

[alan_fincher]

The font size problem comes about because Nigel composes his posts in 'Word' and then 'pastes' it into the forum rather than use 'paste as plain text'.

 

Thus you get the same formatting as was used in the program it was originally created in. Using 'paste as plain text' loses the original formatting and the post adopts the default forum font and size.

Problem is that using the Forum in Firefox, I don't get any pasting options beyond a straight paste of what's in the buffer.

 

Or at least that is all that is in my "Edit" menu - no sub-options under "Paste", and no "Paste As".

 

Am I missing something, because I actually get fed up not being able to paste stuff in without the formatting remaining?

...and now?

 

I am aware the same phrase still appears on CRT licence renewal paperwork but surely it's just a statement of fact.

"Licence it or lose it" doesn't just appear on the invitation to renew - it is also the most prominent thing on the letter to which your actual licence discs are attached, so someone who has just renewed is still reminded prominently that had they not done so, their boat might have been taken.

 

CRT themselves acknowledged that quite such an aggressive stance was symptomatic of how much of their communication reads, and said they were committed to phasing this out, even giving the impression at one stage that they believed they almost had.

 

However my last renewal still had it on everything. I think it is important how you talk to your "compliant" customers, and still think they should change it, although it clearly would not be at the top of the priority list of all changes I would like them to make.

[Guest]

Problem is that using the Forum in Firefox, I don't get any pasting options beyond a straight paste of what's in the buffer.Or at least that is all that is in my "Edit" menu - no sub-options under "Paste", and no "Paste As".Am I missing something, because I actually get fed up not being able to paste stuff in without the formatting remaining?

After copy or cut I always place the cursor and then right click. That brings up a menu from which amongst other things I can select 'paste' or 'paste as plain text'. I use Chrome though and not Firefox but it seems to work in other programs too including my word processor Kingsoft office.

 

I perhaps should have been a bit clearer in this thread but this is how I explained it to Nigel last time I'm pretty sure hence I didn't elaborate this time.

 

PS only works on a PC not a phone or tablet obviously.

Edited January 8, 2014 by The Dog House

[alan_fincher]

With any such campaign, it is to be expected that they don't apply to most people, and are aimed at those not doing the right thing. Surely it does not take too much intelligence to realise this?

So why make it the most prominent think on the letter which has your new licence disks at the bottom? You have already "done the right thing", so it seems like a threat that if you don't continue to, you'll be in trouble. (Nobody else normally reads that particular letter but you, do they?).

[Guest]

So why make it the most prominent think on the letter which has your new licence disks at the bottom? You have already "done the right thing", so it seems like a threat that if you don't continue to, you'll be in trouble. (Nobody else normally reads that particular letter but you, do they?).

But actually you haven't 'done the right thing'. You still have to act on the renewal notice.

 

To me it's nothing more than a fact than a threat.

[alan_fincher]

After copy or cut I always place the cursor and then right click. That brings up a menu from which amongst other things I can select 'paste' or 'paste as plain text'. I use Chrome though and not Firefox but it seems to work in other programs too including my word processor Kingsoft office.

 

I perhaps should have been a bit clearer in this thread but this is how I explained it to Nigel last time I'm pretty sure hence I didn't elaborate this time.

 

PS only works on a PC not a phone or tablet obviously.

Nope, in my version of Firefox right click only gives a straight "post" option - I still don't know how I would get any option to paste with no formatting.

 

(I don't even try cut and paste on a phone - I am far too finger clumy for that!)

[Guest]

Well if you will use an inferior browser I can't help I'm afraid....

[alan_fincher]

So why make it the most prominent think on the letter which has your new licence disks at the bottom? You have already "done the right thing", so it seems like a threat that if you don't continue to, you'll be in trouble. (Nobody else normally reads that particular letter but you, do they?).

 

But actually you haven't 'done the right thing'. You still have to act on the renewal notice.

 

To me it's nothing more than a fact than a threat.

Am I using the wrong font, size or spacing?

 

The only right thing I have not yet done when I open that letter is to actually take the licence discs to the boat, and physically put them in the window. I have already acted on the renewal notice, paid for a licence, and they are now in my hands.

 

I'm starting to doubt my own ability to communicate the simple, whatever font of grammar I use!

[Guest]

Am I using the wrong font, size or spacing? :lol:The only right thing I have not yet done when I open that letter is to actually take the licence discs to the boat, and physically put them in the window. I have already acted on the renewal notice, paid for a licence, and they are now in my hands.I'm starting to doubt my own ability to communicate the simple, whatever font of grammar I use!

My mistake I thought it only appeared on the renewal, anyway it serves as a reminder for next time....

[alan_fincher]

Well if you will use an inferior browser I can't help I'm afraid....

My computer already gleans far more about me and the sites I visit and shares it with others than I would like it to. That's why I'll not be switching to Chrome in a hurry!

 

I'll put up with the paste thing, (which can be easily got around by switching off formatting temporarily whilst you do the paste). It does however demonstrate that when we give helpful computer tips to others they can't always use them with their particular software - not intended as "sarky" by the way, but it's a trap we can all fall into.

My mistake I thought it only appeared on the renewal, anyway it serves as a reminder for next time....

It will be on the next renewal letter anyway, so you don't need it nearly a year in advance of that!

 

Do you really need reminding that if you don't buy a licence CRT may take action against you? In fact does anybody who has a good track record of paying for their licence on time need such "reminders" or "threats"?

 

It's not difficult to develop a system where notifications only include this kind of warning for persistent non or late payers, and don't "threaten" the good guys.

 

But as I say, it is not top of my list of things they need to fix.

[Guest]

My computer already gleans far more about me and the sites I visit and shares it with others than I would like it to. That's why I'll not be switching to Chrome in a hurry!I'll put up with the paste thing, (which can be easily got around by switching off formatting temporarily whilst you do the paste). It does however demonstrate that when we give helpful computer tips to others they can't always use them with their particular software - not intended as "sarky" by the way, but it's a trap we can all fall into.

Indeed which is why I switched to suggesting Nigel opted to make his posts directly in the forum and how to use tabs to do this, even the most prehistoric browsers have tabs and if the browser you are using does not you are at a bigger risk than one simply created by not being able to format your posts on here...

My computer already gleans far more about me and the sites I visit and shares it with others than I would like it to. That's why I'll not be switching to Chrome in a hurry!I'll put up with the paste thing, (which can be easily got around by switching off formatting temporarily whilst you do the paste). It does however demonstrate that when we give helpful computer tips to others they can't always use them with their particular software - not intended as "sarky" by the way, but it's a trap we can all fall into.It will be on the next renewal letter anyway, so you don't need it nearly a year in advance of that!Do you really need reminding that if you don't buy a licence CRT may take action against you? In fact does anybody who has a good track record of paying for their licence on time need such "reminders" or "threats"?It's not difficult to develop a system where notifications only include this kind of warning for persistent non or late payers, and don't "threaten" the good guys.But as I say, it is not top of my list of things they need to fix.

You added a bit. No I agree there are other things to fix before that. For example the whole process needs modernising so we don't even have to bother about displaying the things anyway.... the subject of another discussion perhaps.

[nicknorman]

So why make it the most prominent think on the letter which has your new licence disks at the bottom? You have already "done the right thing", so it seems like a threat that if you don't continue to, you'll be in trouble. (Nobody else normally reads that particular letter but you, do they?).

I quite agree that is ridiculous and ill thought out since the recipient is clearly compliant. But Nigel was referring to posters around the bazaars, which is a different matter.

[Tuscan]

But actually you haven't 'done the right thing'. You still have to act on the renewal notice.

To me it's nothing more than a fact than a threat.

But actually you haven't 'done the right thing'. You still have to act on the renewal notice.

To me it's nothing more than a fact than a threat.

I belong to several charities - including the National Trust which many say CRT wants to model itself on. When they invite me to renew for another year none of them threaten me with what will happen if I don't. All of them go out of here way to highlight the advantages of renewing.

[MtB]

I belong to several charities - including the National Trust which many say CRT wants to model itself on. When they invite me to renew for another year none of them threaten me with what will happen if I don't. All of them go out of here way to highlight the advantages of renewing.

 

 

Maybe not getting your boat crushed is the only advantage of renewing your CRT 'membership' they can think of to promote....

 

 

 

MtB

[Guest]

I belong to several charities - including the National Trust which many say CRT wants to model itself on. When they invite me to renew for another year none of them threaten me with what will happen if I don't. All of them go out of here way to highlight the advantages of renewing.

You mean like keeping your boat?

 

A subscription to contribute to a charity or retain membership or "friend' status is completely different from a fee required by it.

 

Inviting people to buy a licence would be simply bonkers...

[alan_fincher]

Not sure if this Freedom of Information Act Request has got an airing on CWDF or not?

 

Different, certainly!

[nicknorman]

Not sure if this Freedom of Information Act Request has got an airing on CWDF or not?

 

Different, certainly!

An abuse of the process to make a childish point, rather than a real FOI request. No wonder they haven't dignified it with a response.