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Bacon and Egg Fried Rice


Naughty Cal

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If I'm doing fried rice I usually cook the rice (basmati) an hour or so before hand and rinse it with cold water to cool it quickly and stop it cooking. Leave it in a colander to drain and dry. Meanwhile cook your raw prawns, chicken etc and onion,mushrooms etc. Put to one side. Then when ready to cook the rice, get a searing hot wok on the go, flip the rice about, stir in a broken egg if desired then add the other ingredients back in and flip gently for a few more minutes.

 

Some fish sauce is a good addition - it smells disgusting (like week-old socks) but add a generous sloop before serving instead of using salt.

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Betty, is it safe to freeze the left-over rice, then thaw it and reheat it another day? This we do at home from time to time (as the containersof Indian rice sold in supermarkets usually contain a bigger portion than we require).

 

Neither of us seems to have caught Delhi belly or rockin' pneumonia and the boogie-woogie flu yet, so I'm assuming that ours is safe practice?

No probs with freezing rice at all - as long as it is done a quickly as possible after being cooked. After it has chilled on the cookie sheet in the fridge, instead of putting it in a sealed container in the fridge, just put the container in the freezer instead. Same rule applies for reheating though, thaw it in the fridge for a couple of hours before you want to cook it, and when you do reheat it, make sure it is hot all the way through.

 

don't know why I can only post inside a quote- but as above- don't put hot food into the fridge

hence why you need to spread it out thinly on a cookie sheet - so it cools as quickly as possible without having a negative affect on the rest of the contents of the fridge as well as preventing the spores from producing the toxin bacteria.....this is the recommended process to use in a home environment, in a industrial kitchen you would use a blast chiller. This practice is one of the basics covered in both Basic Food Hygiene as well as Intermediate Food Hygiene

 

If I'm doing fried rice I usually cook the rice (basmati) an hour or so before hand and rinse it with cold water to cool it quickly and stop it cooking. Leave it in a colander to drain and dry. Meanwhile cook your raw prawns, chicken etc and onion,mushrooms etc. Put to one side. Then when ready to cook the rice, get a searing hot wok on the go, flip the rice about, stir in a broken egg if desired then add the other ingredients back in and flip gently for a few more minutes.

 

Some fish sauce is a good addition - it smells disgusting (like week-old socks) but add a generous sloop before serving instead of using salt.

dor, the above practice is fine as long as once you have it in the colander to drain and dry, you've put the colander & it's contents in the fridge. Leaving it on the counter for an hour means you are potentially giving the bacteria a good chance to produce the nasty toxins. Rice needs to be kept either hotter than 60 degrees or colder than 4 degrees. Running cold water over cooked rice that is to be used at a later time is good practice, but it should then put in thin layers in the fridge.

 

Alternatively, you could simply swap your method around; cook your prawns, chicken etc & onion, mushrooms etc. put them to the side until your rice is cooked and then reheat your meat mixture at the last minute so everything is ready at once. Just a suggestion.

 

Not trying to be a smarmy - all this info is available on the net. I'm just familiar with it all because of the years I spent in the catering trade.icecream.gif

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Sorry Betty but there is no way you should put hot food straight in the fridge- you're right that putting on a baking tray will cool it down quicker, but this cooling should be done before you put it in the fridge. 1 hour max to cool it in this way and at ambient is very safe and is accepted by the UK Food Standards Agency- and believe me they err on the side of caution.

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/chillingdown-sfbb-0513.pdf

 

In reality the risk is low because you need time for bacteria to grow in the adjacent food and then to increase to an unsafe level, but it isn't a practice I would use

 

In reality rice is so much microbiologically cleaner nowadays (through better harvesting, drying and testing controls) that levels of Bacillus cereus (the nasty toxin forming bacteria) are so much lower to start with in the raw rice and for this bacteria to produce a toxin you need a level of ~100,000 bacteria.

 

Boiling rice will reduce any levels to a low level, so for levels to increase to 100,000 and to form a toxin, then (in reality) you really do need a good time for the bacteria to increase to these levels. This time all depends on several factors, such as time, temperature, moisture, acidity, type of bacteria etc- but it happens over several hours not minutes. Household leftover quantities are usually less than catering, so would cool quicker and Dors method of rinsing and cooling with cold water would reduce the rice to ambient temperature which could then be refrigerated or frozen within an hour- so it would be fine. The biggest issues have been with bigger quantities of rice (takeaways and restaurants) which haven't been cooled quickly enough or in really poor establishments have had warm rice added to cooled rice- which gives a nice warm environment for the bacteria to grow

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Sorry Betty but there is no way you should put hot food straight in the fridge- you're right that putting on a baking tray will cool it down quicker, but this cooling should be done before you put it in the fridge. 1 hour max to cool it in this way and at ambient is very safe and is accepted by the UK Food Standards Agency- and believe me they err on the side of caution.

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/chillingdown-sfbb-0513.pdf

 

In reality the risk is low because you need time for bacteria to grow in the adjacent food and then to increase to an unsafe level, but it isn't a practice I would use

 

In reality rice is so much microbiologically cleaner nowadays (through better harvesting, drying and testing controls) that levels of Bacillus cereus (the nasty toxin forming bacteria) are so much lower to start with in the raw rice and for this bacteria to produce a toxin you need a level of ~100,000 bacteria.

 

Boiling rice will reduce any levels to a low level, so for levels to increase to 100,000 and to form a toxin, then (in reality) you really do need a good time for the bacteria to increase to these levels. This time all depends on several factors, such as time, temperature, moisture, acidity, type of bacteria etc- but it happens over several hours not minutes. Household leftover quantities are usually less than catering, so would cool quicker and Dors method of rinsing and cooling with cold water would reduce the rice to ambient temperature which could then be refrigerated or frozen within an hour- so it would be fine. The biggest issues have been with bigger quantities of rice (takeaways and restaurants) which haven't been cooled quickly enough or in really poor establishments have had warm rice added to cooled rice- which gives a nice warm environment for the bacteria to grow

Very eloquently put; unfortunately not quite right in some instances.

 

UK FSA (Food Standard Agency) does indeed err on the side of caution, I am Very familiar with their expectations, guidelines and inspections. I am happy & slightly proud to say the local authority have included 2 of my methods into their recommendations for best practices for other local food retailers. One to do with probing methods of food stuffs held in open fronted refrigeration, the other to do with pest checks. During the past 10 years of my employment at one of the UK's largest food retailers, being responsible for 6 kitchens and the adjoining restaurants; all of which never scored anything lower than a 5* rating for "scores on doors", or 100% compliance for any other program the FSA & local authority were running I feel quite confident to comment on the subject.

 

The link you've referred to in the above quote, pretty much concurs with the recommendation I gave in my OP. I do admit, after re-reading my post, it might have been seen to imply it would be acceptable to take the steaming hot rice directly from the pot, spread thinly on a cookie sheet and put directly into the fridge. As dor does, I remove the rice from the stove, run it under cold water to cool as much as possible, then spread on a cookie sheet and place in the fridge. This process is completed within 5 minutes of the rice being removed from the heat. I do apologize if anyone understood my directions as to suggest to put steaming hot rice in the fridge.

 

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/tempcontrolguiduk.pdf is from the FSA and is the guidelines for Temperature Control Legislation in the UK. It is the law which all food retail premises are required to follow in the UK. It contains all the proper jargon which I tried to avoid in my post, assuming a lot of people reading it would not come from either a industrial sized catering operation or hold an Intermediate Food Hygiene certification, and not be overly interested in said jargon. Here's another link from food.gov.uk that relates to the cooling of rice.http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/riceind.pdf again it pretty much gives the same guidelines to follow. Note it does suggest the cooling of rice should take place within a 1 hour time frame.

 

If your fridge is running at the correct temp to begin with, putting a shallow pan of cooked rice (which has been under a cold water tap for a couple of minutes prior) will have virtually the same effect as putting your weekly shopping in the fridge after purchase. It will indeed lower the overall temp of the fridge, but the food already present in the fridge will not reach a temp of above 5 degrees or above which is considered the danger zone (we used 4 degrees as our measurement in my last place of employ) while the fridge works to chill the rice or weekly shopping.

 

At the end of the day - the above practices I've suggested are based on the practices of an industrial / retail kitchen environment. These are in place to protect the general public. The practices one chooses to use in their own private home may not be a stringent. However, everyone should be aware of the best practices to follow when dealing with potentially harmful food stuffs.

 

With all that said - I have know Dave to have a Chinese take-away, leave the left over rice in the covered container it came in on the kitchen counter overnight, then reheat it the following day - he's still alive and kicking sick.gifwacko.png

 

At the end of the day, too each their own biggrin.png

 

Edited to correct second link

Edited by Bettie Boo
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If your fridge is running at the correct temp to begin with, putting a shallow pan of cooked rice (which has been under a cold water tap for a couple of minutes prior) will have virtually the same effect as putting your weekly shopping in the fridge after purchase. It will indeed lower the overall temp of the fridge, but the food ..........

 

 

I assume you mean it will raise the temperature ?

 

(just to show I was reading what you wrote)

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smiley_offtopic.gif How do I get rid of the silly blue word quotes in my posts? As above in "you win"?

 

What silly blue word quotes? - they don't look like that from this end.

 

I think you have some malware on your system.

 

ed. - would be wise to download and run the free version of Malwarebytes

Edited by The Dog House
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No probs with freezing rice at all - as long as it is done a quickly as possible after being cooked. After it has chilled on the cookie sheet in the fridge, instead of putting it in a sealed container in the fridge, just put the container in the freezer instead. Same rule applies for reheating though, thaw it in the fridge for a couple of hours before you want to cook it, and when you do reheat it, make sure it is hot all the way through.

 

hence why you need to spread it out thinly on a cookie sheet - so it cools as quickly as possible without having a negative affect on the rest of the contents of the fridge as well as preventing the spores from producing the toxin bacteria.....this is the recommended process to use in a home environment, in a industrial kitchen you would use a blast chiller. This practice is one of the basics covered in both Basic Food Hygiene as well as Intermediate Food Hygiene

 

dor, the above practice is fine as long as once you have it in the colander to drain and dry, you've put the colander & it's contents in the fridge. Leaving it on the counter for an hour means you are potentially giving the bacteria a good chance to produce the nasty toxins. Rice needs to be kept either hotter than 60 degrees or colder than 4 degrees. Running cold water over cooked rice that is to be used at a later time is good practice, but it should then put in thin layers in the fridge.

 

Alternatively, you could simply swap your method around; cook your prawns, chicken etc & onion, mushrooms etc. put them to the side until your rice is cooked and then reheat your meat mixture at the last minute so everything is ready at once. Just a suggestion.

 

Not trying to be a smarmy - all this info is available on the net. I'm just familiar with it all because of the years I spent in the catering trade.icecream.gif

The reason for cooking the rice an hour before is that to cook fried rice, it is far better to start with cold dry cooked (actually slightly undercooked) rice than to cook the rice then immediately try frying it. Well in my experience anyway, and I've seen several recipes for fried rice that tell you to cook the rice and leave to cool. I wonder if the risk is really that high these days for toxin-tainted rice.

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sorry dor, completely missed the point of it being fried-rice as the finished product.

 

You are also right in that today's rice is not considered as high risk as it was years ago; however FSA still include it in their high risk food stuffs.

 

Your practice of running it under cold water should be fine, personally if it's going to be held for any longer than 20 minutes, I would put it in the fridge to chill further after the cold water rinse; but that's just me. You seem to be alive and well by following your own method, so I'd say stick with it wink.png

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Very eloquently put; unfortunately not quite right in some instances.

 

UK FSA (Food Standard Agency) does indeed err on the side of caution, I am Very familiar with their expectations, guidelines and inspections. I am happy & slightly proud to say the local authority have included 2 of my methods into their recommendations for best practices for other local food retailers. One to do with probing methods of food stuffs held in open fronted refrigeration, the other to do with pest checks. During the past 10 years of my employment at one of the UK's largest food retailers, being responsible for 6 kitchens and the adjoining restaurants; all of which never scored anything lower than a 5* rating for "scores on doors", or 100% compliance for any other program the FSA & local authority were running I feel quite confident to comment on the subject.

 

The link you've referred to in the above quote, pretty much concurs with the recommendation I gave in my OP. I do admit, after re-reading my post, it might have been seen to imply it would be acceptable to take the steaming hot rice directly from the pot, spread thinly on a cookie sheet and put directly into the fridge. As dor does, I remove the rice from the stove, run it under cold water to cool as much as possible, then spread on a cookie sheet and place in the fridge. This process is completed within 5 minutes of the rice being removed from the heat. I do apologize if anyone understood my directions as to suggest to put steaming hot rice in the fridge.

 

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/tempcontrolguiduk.pdf is from the FSA and is the guidelines for Temperature Control Legislation in the UK. It is the law which all food retail premises are required to follow in the UK. It contains all the proper jargon which I tried to avoid in my post, assuming a lot of people reading it would not come from either a industrial sized catering operation or hold an Intermediate Food Hygiene certification, and not be overly interested in said jargon. Here's another link from food.gov.uk that relates to the cooling of rice.http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/riceind.pdf again it pretty much gives the same guidelines to follow. Note it does suggest the cooling of rice should take place within a 1 hour time frame.

 

If your fridge is running at the correct temp to begin with, putting a shallow pan of cooked rice (which has been under a cold water tap for a couple of minutes prior) will have virtually the same effect as putting your weekly shopping in the fridge after purchase. It will indeed lower the overall temp of the fridge, but the food already present in the fridge will not reach a temp of above 5 degrees or above which is considered the danger zone (we used 4 degrees as our measurement in my last place of employ) while the fridge works to chill the rice or weekly shopping.

 

At the end of the day - the above practices I've suggested are based on the practices of an industrial / retail kitchen environment. These are in place to protect the general public. The practices one chooses to use in their own private home may not be a stringent. However, everyone should be aware of the best practices to follow when dealing with potentially harmful food stuffs.

 

With all that said - I have know Dave to have a Chinese take-away, leave the left over rice in the covered container it came in on the kitchen counter overnight, then reheat it the following day - he's still alive and kicking sick.gifwacko.png

 

At the end of the day, too each their own biggrin.png

 

Edited to correct second link

Hi Betty- I did read it that you were suggesting putting hot rice straight into the fridge, so I do understand you now.

 

Out of interest can you tell me which bits of my post aren't right?

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Hi Betty- I did read it that you were suggesting putting hot rice straight into the fridge, so I do understand you now.

 

Out of interest can you tell me which bits of my post aren't right?

It was the implication of leaving cooked rice at an ambient room temp to cool naturally before putting it into a refrigerator. It would then still need more time once in the fridge to get down to the required 5 degrees. This is defiantly not best practice

 

Bacillus cereus bacteria multiply every 23 minutes. Therefore, if you started with 25,000 bacteria (not unheard of, if only par cooking the rice to use for fried rice later, based on 4 - 6 portions) and left it standing at ambient temps for 1 hour, your rice would contain 100,000 bacteria when it was placed in the fridge. It would keep multiplying in the fridge until it reached the safe temp of 5 degrees, and at the re-heating stage it would start multiplying again until it reached 70 degrees for 2 minutes before it stopped.....you'd end up with a shed load of Bacillus Cereus Bacteria garnishing your rice

 

Again - my personal practice is based on the standards I have grown accustomed to in a large scale catering / food retail environment, where we had to have very stringent controls in place simply due to the large number of meals that were produced & consumed on a daily basis. What people choose to do within their own homes is completely their own choice.

 

After all, food poisoning from the toxins that improperly chilled rice produce most often only result in vomiting or diarrhoea and only last for approx. 24 hours. It's not normally life threatening. I'd just as soon not spend 24 hours with the back door trots though if chilling rich properly was the prevention :)

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Bacillus cereus bacteria multiply every 23 minutes. Therefore, if you started with 25,000 bacteria (not unheard of, if only par cooking the rice to use for fried rice later, based on 4 - 6 portions) and left it standing at ambient temps for 1 hour, your rice would contain 100,000 bacteria when it was placed in the fridge. It would keep multiplying in the fridge until it reached the safe temp of 5 degrees, and at the re-heating stage it would start multiplying again until it reached 70 degrees for 2 minutes before it stopped.....you'd end up with a shed load of Bacillus Cereus Bacteria garnishing your rice

 

 

Interesting. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

So I'm very curious. Do you happen to know how Indian and Chinese restaurants and takeaways store/cook/produce their rice in volume? Do they cook a large quantity each day and store it at over 70 degrees C? If so, why doesn't it carry on cooking and turn into sludge?

 

Or do they cook every portion on demand? Or cook it, store it cold and re-heat portions on demand? Or something else?

 

MtB

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Sorry Betty but there is no way you should put hot food straight in the fridge- you're right that putting on a baking tray will cool it down quicker, but this cooling should be donebefore you put it in the fridge. 1 hour max to cool it in this way and at ambient is very safe and is accepted by the UK Food Standards Agency- and believe me they err on the side of caution.


http://www.food.gov....n-sfbb-0513.pdf





If you read my post correctly- I state 1 hour maximum is safe and reccomended- although in practice longer may be acceptable- but I did not state anyone do that.



A Bacillus cereus count of 25,000 is not common at all and would suggest a very poorly controlled growing and storage regime. This is certainly not a specification that UK Rice Importers or processors would accept. The growth curve of Bc is very dependant upon a number of factors and logarithmic growth (bacteria double in number over a period of time) Bc will grow between 10--48'C and at an optimum of 28-35'C- so the bacteria will only double in number at the optimum temperature of 28-35'C. Rinsing cooked rice with cold water would take this below 28'C and furthermore levels will not increase once reduced down to below 10'C. The cooking, even par boiling will reduce initial levels to a low level prior to cooling- so cooked rice should not contain 25,000 bacillus cereus.



I notice your experience on this topic and similarly I have spent 27 years- this time in the Industrial Food Manufacturing Industry:- 7 in R&D and 20 in QA- the last 7 being responsible for the Safety and Quality of a portfolio of products made and sold by one of the World's largest Global food manufacturers. During those last 7 years, we have developed a number of rice products and currently have a study in place with the University of Beijing, assessing the growth criteria of Bacillus cereus and other micro-organisms in fermented rice products. We have never encountered levels of Bc that you are quoting and none of our suppliers or customers would consider a spec of that level. We are actually struggling to get Bc to grow at the levels expected under optimum conditions and even when stressing the bacteria under conditions where toxin should be formed- it hasn't- but I wont bore anyone with the science of that



Rice can be a risk- but good hygienic practices (especially improved since the 80s)have proven that it can be managed sensibly without paranoia- Now mycotoxins and GMs are a different more difficult risk to manage- but that would be off topic

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Sorry MtB - no idea how small independent take-aways produce or hold their food, so couldn't really comment.

 

I have seen my local Chinese take-away take sealed containers of rice out of the fridge than place the rice in the wok to produce my dinner. This would suggest they "cook it, store it cold and re-heat portions on demand"

 

In the eyes of the local EHO these premises in general don't have the potential to cause the quantity of out breaks of food poisoning due to Bacillus cereus bacteria that we did. I would suggest a good local take-away could probably serve 2 - 3 hundred meals on a very busy night. We could serve upwards of 20 - 30 thousand meals during a busy show. You will find the local EHO when dealing with small independent food retailers are more concerned with the likes of cleanliness of the premises and it's equipment, the source & condition of the raw products, the storage & use of chemicals etc.

 

Not implying the EHO's don't look at preparation and storage best practices in these types of establishments but it's all to do with what is reasonably practicable. A lot of these places are run out of old converted 2up 2 down houses and simply don't have the space or financial means to have equipment like a blast chiller, vacuum packing machine or walk-in fridge / freezer; all of which would be considered essential bits of equipment for a large production kitchen cloud9.gif

 

LOL - sorry wasn't implying to hold hot rice at 70 degrees - your quite right - it would be like liquid cement when you sat down to eat sick.gif When re-heating chilled rice, bring it up to 70 degrees for 2 minutes before serving, which is best practice for most reheated foods. But again, this is the standard for production kitchens - most *"housewives" I know, don't have a properly calibrated food prob close at hand to check; cooking, chilling or holding temps of food stuffs.

 

*= housewives / househusbands / non commercial kitchens - No offence was implied, simply struggled for the correct term

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Interesting. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

So I'm very curious. Do you happen to know how Indian and Chinese restaurants and takeaways store/cook/produce their rice in volume? Do they cook a large quantity each day and store it at over 70 degrees C? If so, why doesn't it carry on cooking and turn into sludge?

 

Or do they cook every portion on demand? Or cook it, store it cold and re-heat portions on demand? Or something else?

 

MtB

My Chinese take away cook it, store it cold and re-heat portions on demand.

:)

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Best practice for reusing cooked rice, in a home environment, where a blast chiller is not normally available -

 

cook rice as normal

spread a thin layer of rice on a cookie sheet (think you all call it a baking sheet/pan)

place in fridge until chilled

place chilled rice in a covered container in fridge

 

The important point is to chill the rice as quickly as possible, it should never be left out to cool down to room temp before going in the fridge. This is the danger zone.

 

If the above directions are followed, there is little chance of the spores multiplying enough to cause serious damage. Chilled rice should be reheated the following day to a hot temp and consumed. Or serve in a chilled rice based salad.

 

B~

 

 

No probs with freezing rice at all - as long as it is done a quickly as possible after being cooked. After it has chilled on the cookie sheet in the fridge, instead of putting it in a sealed container in the fridge, just put the container in the freezer instead. Same rule applies for reheating though, thaw it in the fridge for a couple of hours before you want to cook it, and when you do reheat it, make sure it is hot all the way through.

 

This practice is one of the basics covered in both Basic Food Hygiene as well as Intermediate Food Hygiene

 

 

 

 

As dor does, I remove the rice from the stove, run it under cold water to cool as much as possible, then spread on a cookie sheet and place in the fridge. This process is completed within 5 minutes of the rice being removed from the heat. I do apologize if anyone understood my directions as to suggest to put steaming hot rice in the fridge.

 

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/tempcontrolguiduk.pdf is from the FSA and is the guidelines for Temperature Control Legislation in the UK. It is the law which all food retail premises are required to follow in the UK. Here's another link from food.gov.uk that relates to the cooling of rice.http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/riceind.pdf again it pretty much gives the same guidelines to follow. Note it does suggest the cooling of rice should take place within a 1 hour time frame.

 

At the end of the day - the above practices I've suggested are based on the practices of an industrial / retail kitchen environment. These are in place to protect the general public. The practices one chooses to use in their own private home may not be a stringent. However, everyone should be aware of the best practices to follow when dealing with potentially harmful food stuffs.

 

With all that said - I have know Dave to have a Chinese take-away, leave the left over rice in the covered container it came in on the kitchen counter overnight, then reheat it the following day - he's still alive and kicking sick.gifwacko.png

 

At the end of the day, too each their own biggrin.png

 

The first link, although quite long and rather dull reading in places; does indeed cover the UK Food Safety Standards guidelines on the recognized and agreed standards for chilling food stuffs.

 

 

 

You are also right in that today's rice is not considered as high risk as it was years ago; however FSA still include it in their high risk food stuffs.

 

Your practice of running it under cold water should be fine, personally if it's going to be held for any longer than 20 minutes, I would put it in the fridge to chill further after the cold water rinse; but that's just me. You seem to be alive and well by following your own method, so I'd say stick with it wink.png

 

 

Again - my personal practice is based on the standards I have grown accustomed to in a large scale catering / food retail environment, where we had to have very stringent controls in place simply due to the large number of meals that were produced & consumed on a daily basis. What people choose to do within their own homes is completely their own choice.

 

After all, food poisoning from the toxins that improperly chilled rice produce most often only result in vomiting or diarrhoea and only last for approx. 24 hours. It's not normally life threatening. I'd just as soon not spend 24 hours with the back door trots though if chilling rich properly was the prevention smile.png

 

 

 

Sorry Betty but there is no way you should put hot food straight in the fridge- you're right that putting on a baking tray will cool it down quicker, but this cooling should be donebefore you put it in the fridge. 1 hour max to cool it in this way and at ambient is very safe and is accepted by the UK Food Standards Agency- and believe me they err on the side of caution.

http://www.food.gov....n-sfbb-0513.pdf

If you read my post correctly- I state 1 hour maximum is safe and reccomended- although in practice longer may be acceptable- but I did not state anyone do that. And had we employed that practice at my last place of employ we would have received notice from the EHO during their inspections.

Rice can be a risk- but good hygienic practices (especially improved since the 80s)have proven that it can be managed sensibly without paranoia- Now mycotoxins and GMs are a different more difficult risk to manage- but that would be off topic

 

Woodstock - I am in no way attempting to challenge your knowledge of the topic at hand.

 

My OP was in response to a simple question and I gave an answer to it, in the same method, geared to what I "presumed" (sorry MtB) to be the knowledge level of the person asking the question. As previously mentioned, I did not mean to imply to put steaming hot rice in a fridge.

 

Based on your last post I would assess the majority of your knowledge is from the growing / harvesting, packaging & wholesale marketing of raw rice, of which I have little to no knowledge. My knowledge comes from the other side of the coin, the safe processes of storage, cooking, holding of cooked product and serving of the cooked product in a large commercial / retail enviroment.

 

In the majority of my posts I think I made it quite clear, the process I "personally" follow is based as closely as possible & reasonably practicable on the strict guidelines we had in place in the very large commercial production kitchens I have been associated with during my working career. I feel I was also very clear in stating "to each their own" I was sharing what I (and the local EHO) consider to be best practice.

 

When the FSA and local EHO change their stance and expectations on the best process of the preparation and holding of rice, I'll more than happily follow their lead. Until then I will do my best to follow their recommendations.

 

Without splitting any more hairs about the process, I stand by my OP......

 

cook rice as normal

Edit to Add for those who need the instruction.... rinse hot rice under cold running water until rice no longer produces steam and is cool enough to place in fridge (normally "for me" a couple of minutes)

spread a thin layer of rice on a cookie sheet (think you all call it a baking sheet/pan)

place in fridge until chilled

place chilled rice in a covered container in fridge

 

The important point is to chill the rice as quickly as possible, it should never be left out to cool down to room temp before going in the fridge. This is the danger zone.

 

Let me know if you find an EHO who wouldn't agree this is best practice in a home enviorment

 

B~

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last post because this is becoming repetitive and dull.

 

My experience is based upon the supply chain of rice from raw material planting to distribution of manufactured rice containing products, but not limited to raw rice- I have in the past imported rice hence the familiarity with specs and standards but my current remit is for manufactured rice products (rice noodles etc)- so I am very familiar with the safe processing and manufacture of rice products. The safe processing of these products encompasses the rice cooking and cooling stages on an industrial scale

 

From a household perspective- it is perfectly possible to cool rice to ambient temperatures, using cold water- in less than one hour- I don't understand why you are debating that- we have agreed that is a safe and reccomended practice. I personally would rinse it thoroughly, place into a suitable container, stir a few times, to ensure it has cooled down evenly, and when it has I'll put it into a fridge- no risk of adding heat to adjacent foods then. I haven't personally timed this, but it would be less than an hour- so we're talking variation on the same method- so again- What are we debating?

 

I was also saying that in practice longer than 1 hour is likely to be ok (rice is much cleaner)- but at no point did I tell anyone to do that. The 1 hour guide is based upon worst case starting points, unlikely to be found nowadays- but fine that's the guidance.

 

In my opinion (and I've very clearly stated why the risk is lower in practice) I wouldn't think it the end of the world if it took 1hour and 30minutes to cool- but it would be unlikely anyway to take this long to cool- so I don't understand the continuous debate. That would be my choice based upon risk- I'm not telling everyone to do it- I'm just explaining risk and that risk is considerably lower these days. Everyone has a choice.

 

The areas I have challenged relate to:-

-putting hot food straight into the fridge- I can see that you have corrected that- but If you state something as the "best" method or portray yourself as an expert then you should explain it correctly- which you have now

-and finally your comments on micro levels and growth assumptions for Bacillus cereus which are not correct. If you wish to argue this one further then lets take it off the forum- I can't imagine too many are interested

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The areas I have challenged relate to:-

-putting hot food straight into the fridge- I can see that you have corrected that- but If you state something as the "best" method or portray yourself as an expert then you should explain it correctly- which you have now

-and finally your comments on micro levels and growth assumptions for Bacillus cereus which are not correct. If you wish to argue this one further then lets take it off the forum- I can't imagine too many are interested

 

Actually I am - so if you are going to debate it keep it in the forum pls.

 

Anybody not interested can just skip over the thread.

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I'm interested in this as well as I can't say I have ever heard of anyone suffering from toxins produced by B. cereus. But then again it would be easy to put the resulting effects down to a dodgy prawn etc.

 

It does make me wonder though how I survived in the late '60s when having been out on a Saturday night in the nearby town I would pick up a special fried rice on the way home, which would take me 20 minutes. I usually only managed half of it so put the rest in the fridge which in those days was probably nearer 10 degrees than five. I would then warm the leftover rice up for breakfast, which provided an incentive to get up or else I would find my father had pinched all the prawns.

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Oh Dear- I said last post

 

Dor- your thoughts are not uncommon- I call microbiology a grey science (most of our microbiologists would agree). The difference is down to theory and practice. Guidances and regulations are normally based upon the worst case (as it should be)- but in practice there is a difference between theory and practice for numerous reasons.

 

We all have different sensitivities and bacteria behave differently under different conditions- Your takeaway may have cooked rice fresh, they may have had good hygienic conditions, the salt usually added to rice could reduce any bacteria, you may have a good resistance to this bacteria, any acidity would reduce food poisoning bacteria levels (not toxins)- sweet and sour sauce is acidic (some down to pH2.8) and would make a great preservative and so on.

 

It is ironic though- that Bacillus cereus can be found in a number of products-- but because of the "Chinese Takeaway syndrome", most people only associate the risk with rice.

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