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My view....

 

The main plus point with gas is that although quite inefficient is that it uses what it uses there and then.

 

The down side with electric fridges (either 12v or 240v) is producing your own electric. To make it efficient you have to have the right size generator for your charger and then batteries. If any of these are way off then it's going to inefficient.

 

 

Exactly my view

 

The 240 volt fridge freezer that was on the boat used,in real terms 67 AH per 24 hours,so it required 100 AMPS for at least an hour to replenish the batteries?

 

 

Another possibility is running the 3 way fridge from the AC source when the boat is running for extended periods,sometimes as much as 8 hours per day.

 

The 110 watt consumption would be negligible in terms of diesel consumed when the engine is capable of producing 120 amps DC

 

 

Should the proposed Solar installation produce more than is required for the daily use,the fridge could be run from the AC source even when the boat is moored,but this is unlikely as the fridge could use nearly 200 AH !

 

Am thinking of playing with a timer to enable the fridge to have 50% on-off and then test the overall consumption and temperature changes

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Exactly my view

 

The 240 volt fridge freezer that was on the boat used,in real terms 67 AH per 24 hours,so it required 100 AMPS for at least an hour to replenish the batteries?

 

 

Another possibility is running the 3 way fridge from the AC source when the boat is running for extended periods,sometimes as much as 8 hours per day.

 

The 110 watt consumption would be negligible in terms of diesel consumed when the engine is capable of producing 120 amps DC

 

 

Should the proposed Solar installation produce more than is required for the daily use,the fridge could be run from the AC source even when the boat is moored,but this is unlikely as the fridge could use nearly 200 AH !

 

Am thinking of playing with a timer to enable the fridge to have 50% on-off and then test the overall consumption and temperature changes

 

At 80% battery charging efficiency (which is quite low) you'll need to put back in 80ah's. Your batteries may not take 80amps, so may take longer than an hour. A good ratio for max efficiency is around 75% for a generator, so a 2Kw generator is a good match for a 120amp charger, but you'll need at least 600ah of battery capacity (but 900ah is better) to get 120amp into the batteries.

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Hi,

I thought it was not (BSS) permitted to fit new/replace a gas fridge in a canal boat?

quote from WW

 

"Gas fridges on boats have gone out of fashion. This is due mostly because the Boat Safety Scheme requires any new gas appliance to be installed according to the manufacturers instructions, and there is not a gas fridge available recommended for boats since Dometic withdrew their appliance.

Older private boats that had a gas fridge when the scheme came in are allowed to keep them,

however the problem comes when they need replacing"

 

Advice form BSS needed?

 

Ray

Quite simply what you have quoted is incorrect.

 

The BSS does not disallow fitting LPG fridges either as a replacement, or as a new installation, on a private boat.

 

In one version of the regulations there were restrictons, but they have been dropped since at least 2005.

 

Are you quoting from a very old article, perhaps?

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Quite simply what you have quoted is incorrect.

 

The BSS does not disallow fitting LPG fridges either as a replacement, or as a new installation, on a private boat.

 

I must say, although the BSS may not demand an appliance is fitted in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, the GSIUR (which apply in the case of a liveaboard) contain a provision that can be interpreted as to demand it.

 

There may or may not be such a provision in PD5482-3 2005. On a brief flick through I can't see one. Tthe nearest I can find is a requirement to provide the appliance User Instructions for users.

 

MtB

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I must say, although the BSS may not demand an appliance is fitted in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, the GSIUR (which apply in the case of a liveaboard) contain a provision that can be interpreted as to demand it.

 

There may or may not be such a provision in PD5482-3 2005. On a brief flick through I can't see one. Tthe nearest I can find is a requirement to provide the appliance User Instructions for users.

 

MtB

 

Thanks for that info.

 

Mike,is there any BSS revisions on morco type water heaters?

 

Am thinking of installing a morco,is venting it via a mushroom vent ok?

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Thanks for that info.

 

Mike,is there any BSS revisions on morco type water heaters?

 

Am thinking of installing a morco,is venting it via a mushroom vent ok?

 

Note that you are asking Mike a question about the BSS, but his reply you have quoted did not relate to the BSS.

 

As Mike rightly says, in the case of a live-aboard boats other regulations may apply in addition to the BSS, but in my view it is important to be clear what regulations are being enquired about and quoted, as in my view much misinformation also gets passed about.

 

As far as a Morco goes, I would say strictly it should use the proper flue, but I'll admit that ever since we bought our boat ours has actually used a particularly large mushroom vent over the flue. This is arranged with a restrictor so it can't be closed by screwing down, and each BSS examiner has passed the arrangement as it passes a spill test just fine. However, by choice, I wouldn't have done it this way myself, but have never bothered to change it.

 

I don't think a standard sized mushroom for around a 4" hole would be adequate, ours is larger than the 5" (or thereabouts) flue of the Morco, so that is able to pass right up through it to the opening.

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Note that you are asking Mike a question about the BSS, but his reply you have quoted did not relate to the BSS.

 

As Mike rightly says, in the case of a live-aboard boats other regulations may apply in addition to the BSS, but in my view it is important to be clear what regulations are being enquired about and quoted, as in my view much misinformation also gets passed about.

 

As far as a Morco goes, I would say strictly it should use the proper flue, but I'll admit that ever since we bought our boat ours has actually used a particularly large mushroom vent over the flue. This is arranged with a restrictor so it can't be closed by screwing down, and each BSS examiner has passed the arrangement as it passes a spill test just fine. However, by choice, I wouldn't have done it this way myself, but have never bothered to change it.

 

I don't think a standard sized mushroom for around a 4" hole would be adequate, ours is larger than the 5" (or thereabouts) flue of the Morco, so that is able to pass right up through it to the opening.

Thank you Alan

 

your flue method is exactly what i intend to do.

 

The reason i posed the question to Mike was that i seem to recall him saying there was a problem with fitting to newer boats.

 

I will install as above and talk to my BSS chap to seek his counsel

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Note that you are asking Mike a question about the BSS, but his reply you have quoted did not relate to the BSS.

 

As Mike rightly says, in the case of a live-aboard boats other regulations may apply in addition to the BSS, but in my view it is important to be clear what regulations are being enquired about and quoted, as in my view much misinformation also gets passed about.

 

As far as a Morco goes, I would say strictly it should use the proper flue, but I'll admit that ever since we bought our boat ours has actually used a particularly large mushroom vent over the flue. This is arranged with a restrictor so it can't be closed by screwing down, and each BSS examiner has passed the arrangement as it passes a spill test just fine. However, by choice, I wouldn't have done it this way myself, but have never bothered to change it.

 

I don't think a standard sized mushroom for around a 4" hole would be adequate, ours is larger than the 5" (or thereabouts) flue of the Morco, so that is able to pass right up through it to the opening.

 

Yes there was for many years a specific design of mushroom that was a flue terminal not an air vent. Bigger in diameter and non-closeable or adjustable in any way.

 

Regarding retro-fitting a Morco or similar, I see no reason not to other than it contravenes PD5482-3 2005, but no-one cares about PD5482-3 2005 with an existing boat as it is only enforced on new-builds via the RCD. (Disregarding hire boats, passenger boats and a few other non-leisure boat exceptions).

 

Getting back to the brass mushroom flue terminals, these contravene the manufacturer's instructions manual so on a liveaboard, they would be a fail if a properly quailified and well-informed GSR bloke checked one out.

 

 

MtB

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Thank you Alan

 

your flue method is exactly what i intend to do.

 

The reason i posed the question to Mike was that i seem to recall him saying there was a problem with fitting to newer boats.

 

I will install as above and talk to my BSS chap to seek his counsel

 

If you are not using the Morco external flue, then, as a bare minimum, I would position the unit low enough that you can accommodate the full length of the normal "internal" flue uncut.

 

Originally our boat had a significantly cut down internal flue, and I thought this wasn't helping with getting it to fully draw away fumes to outside. When I fitted a replacement Morco, I dropped it lower, so I didn't need to cut a supplied flue at all and had the maximum length possible without additionally having an external flue fitted.

 

(I then had to find somewhere to store things that used to fit below my original Morco, but no longer did! :banghead:)

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They say a average 12v fridge uses around 50 amp a day. For me to generate that at 80% battery efficiency would cost around about half a litre of diesel. So around 40-45p. On shoreline it would be around about 9p.

 

Someone here mentioned a 240v fridge using 117kwh a year ?

 

That's the equivlent of about 32ah a day at 12v with using a 80% efficient inverter.

We just left the boat unattended for 22 hrs with the electrics still on. The only things running were the inverter, 240 volt fridge with icebox and cooling fans blowing on the condenser. Total power used according to Mr.Sterling's best instrumentation, 19Ah at 24 volts, you can work the watts per year out if you want to know.

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If you are not using the Morco external flue, then, as a bare minimum, I would position the unit low enough that you can accommodate the full length of the normal "internal" flue uncut.

 

Originally our boat had a significantly cut down internal flue, and I thought this wasn't helping with getting it to fully draw away fumes to outside. When I fitted a replacement Morco, I dropped it lower, so I didn't need to cut a supplied flue at all and had the maximum length possible without additionally having an external flue fitted.

 

(I then had to find somewhere to store things that used to fit below my original Morco, but no longer did! frusty.gif)

Will use the Morco flue and have made a 2 mm steel ring of 10 inch diameter and 3 inch height

 

This "windbreak" will be tack welded to the cabin roof to reduce the likely hood of blowback,i must not forget to put scuppers in it allow water to drain!

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