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Considering my first boat. Help?


Jenza

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To be honest im not sure what a joiner is tongue.png

 

At the moment i am looking to get something round the 25 mark if possible, doesnt matter where in the country, Ill make a holiday of bringing it down to london.

Joiner = carpenter who does not use screws or nails, although in general terms it seems to mean "skilled carpenter"

 

If it's any help, I've been monitoring boats for sale for the best part of a year now, specifically in the price range you mention. (I'm planning to buy in 2016). There has been a sharp decline in the number of boats offered on Apollo Duck and ebay since early Autumn, specifically in that price range. My guess would be that the used boat market follows a similar trend to the housing market, in that more boats will come on the market in Spring, if you can hold off until then you may well find something more suitable then,

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Not going to argue with you Mike you obviously know the market better than me!! But whoever paid £11k was ripped off.

 

I agree that on the face of it £11k seems too much, but to confidently state as fact they were ripped off without knowing the full extent of the work carried out is foolhardy in my opinion. I'd suggest it is EASY to run up an £11k bill for labour at a boatyard, particularly if it's a demanding customer willing to pay top money for top class bespoke work, done exaclty as he wants it.

 

Just because it could have been done half as well for half the money, only means they were ripped off in your personal opinion, I suggest.

 

MtB

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To be honest im not sure what a joiner is tongue.png

 

At the moment i am looking to get something round the 25 mark if possible, doesnt matter where in the country, Ill make a holiday of bringing it down to london.

If you have £25,000 to spend I'd suggest you should be looking at boats just under £30,000. Anyone who thinks their boat is worth £25k will probably ask for just under 30k.

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Not going to argue with you Mike you obviously know the market better than me!! But whoever paid £11k was ripped off.

 

Just to repeat - it was a previous owner to us and he appears to have been 'one of those' that pays someone to change a lightbulb.

 

I'll be at the boat later this week and I'll get out 'THE BOOK' and see exactly what was involved, what hours and at what rate. (not that it matters but may give others ideas as to boatyard costs)

 

From memory it was re-jig the rear bedroom and make into a cross bed, build wardrobe, build another wardrobe capable of taking 2 bicycles, remove pump-out tank (from under the bed), move calorifier into space vacated by pump-out tank, remove bedroom radiator. Gut bathroom and fit sink, cassette toilet and shower / 4 foot bath.

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Alan,

 

Thanks for clarification.

I think that we are all trying to help Jenza find the right boat at the right price and any feed back on costs will help. I tend to do my own work or enlist a friends help who has more time than me to do work on Tyto. But to clarify things further I work as a designer and do have a good understanding of the cost of work be it small joinery/cabinet making to multi million pound construction projects.

 

Happy New Year

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The reason CROMDALE isn't selling is obvious on a first pass though the details...

 

Two berths only, and both single beds!

 

Rules out 90% of buyers immediately. There's so way I'd ever buy such a boat unless I planned major surgery to construct a double bed cabin.

 

MTB

It's that funny...this is just the type of berth set up we have been serching for ...now to find this set up in a reverse layout and we will be in 7th heaven.

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I'm usually of the persuasion that leisure narrow boats are fitted with overly large engines, but a Lister SR2 in a 60 foot boat doesn't give a lot of margin. Probably OK for steady progress on canals, but not ideal if you wanted to venture on rivers.

 

SR2 production ceased long before this boat was built, so can not have been a new engine whenever fitted.

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What do people think are the most important things to consider when looking for a first boat that will resell? As well as personal must haves like a casette toilet!

 

I dont think you should look at a boat with a view to its resale value.

Its going to be yours, it should be what you want it to be.

 

You will hopefully be getting a few years out of it why compromise and get something someone else MAY want.

 

Buying with a view to reselling is almost an admission of "I'm not sure I want to do this"

 

Buy what you want and find someone with similar tastes in a few years when you want to 'trade-up'

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What do people think are the most important things to consider when looking for a first boat that will resell? As well as personal must haves like a casette toilet!

Don't buy a boat whilst thinking about whether it will resell.

 

You need to buy a boat that is good value, but far more important is whether the boat is right for you. Unless you fancy yourself as a second-hand car saleman.

ETA: instantaneous post with Alan de E!

 

ETA TA: of course you are right about the cassette though.

Edited by dor
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I dont think you should look at a boat with a view to its resale value.

Its going to be yours, it should be what you want it to be.

 

You will hopefully be getting a few years out of it why compromise and get something someone else MAY want.

 

Buying with a view to reselling is almost an admission of "I'm not sure I want to do this"

 

Buy what you want and find someone with similar tastes in a few years when you want to 'trade-up'

Being hard to resell has been mentioned a few times in this thread, should I not consider it at all? I know most work I do myself wont look perfect or professional.
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If a boat is a 'hard to sell variety' then it will be hard to sell for the existing owner and you should therefore get it at a discounted price, when you come to sell you will also need to offer the discounted price, but, as you bought it 'cheap' it wont really hurt.

 

20 odd years ago we were selling (and looking to buy) a property. Our house was on the market for £170,000 and we received an offer of £125,000. Instead of refusing it we offered the seller of the one we wanted to buy £45,000 below their asking price - it was accepted and the loss 'cost us nothing'

 

Buy what suits you !!!

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Being hard to resell has been mentioned a few times in this thread, should I not consider it at all? I know most work I do myself wont look perfect or professional.

If you have never owned a boat how do you know what you want?

 

It's so easy to get carried away when looking at boats and convince yourself that you can live with this or that. It's only when you have done a bit of boating that you will know what things are essential to you, and what is unimportant.

 

What Alan says is sound advice in that if you think a particular boat is "right" for you, provided you get it at the right price you can mitigate your losses if a year or two down the line you change your priorities. But to do this successfully without experience is relying on luck, unless you spend some time researching the market thoroughly.

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Joiner = carpenter who does not use screws or nails, although in general terms it seems to mean "skilled carpenter"

 

If it's any help, I've been monitoring boats for sale for the best part of a year now, specifically in the price range you mention. (I'm planning to buy in 2016). There has been a sharp decline in the number of boats offered on Apollo Duck and ebay since early Autumn, specifically in that price range. My guess would be that the used boat market follows a similar trend to the housing market, in that more boats will come on the market in Spring, if you can hold off until then you may well find something more suitable then,

 

Well that definition is one dreamt up by someone who clearly does not understand the various woodworking trades.

Edited by David Schweizer
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Being hard to resell has been mentioned a few times in this thread, should I not consider it at all? I know most work I do myself wont look perfect or professional.

I'd say a lot of 'being hard to resell' is to do with novices paying over the odds for a boat in the first place, then attempting to recoup their costs. Judging by the price of some, bog standard ex-hire boats, clearly at the end of their lives, put up on Apollo Duck for eyewatering prices. (Beautiful hull? Really? Are they sure?). And bear in mind if you want fully comp insurance (I'd say vital in London because of the crime), most brokers won't insure a boat over 25 years old, unless you have a survey every few years and some won't insure Springers at all.

 

And I reckon the reason there are so many rented boats in London is partly because boaters rent when they find they can't sell at the high price they are asking. Renting is a risky activity - barely anyone does it legally (because it's virtually impossible to meet the long list of requirements and also expensive to do right) and when it goes wrong it tends to go very wrong.

 

So it *is* a good idea to ask advice of boaters with more experience. And you are in the right place! So if you want to find something that won't be hard to sell, I'd say your number one priority is to not pay over the odds in the first place.

 

The other 'hard to sell' I'd say is spending an absolute fortune doing a luxury refurb (sometimes overplating and new engine) on a bog standard, old knackered hull. (I'm talking 70's/80's ex-hire narrowboats rather than classic authentic working boats or dutch barges) Then trying to sell it for a 'new boat' price. I have seen some like this at £1000 a foot - you can buy brand new (with no dark secrets) for £1000 a foot.

 

Because a boat is not a flat, you can't do it up (like a flat) and charge that much more, a boat is more like a car in that it has a shorter lifespan and might depreciate in value. Because of the age of the hull, it won't matter that the boat is a palace inside, you could still have issues with insurance because it is still an old boat. The age and condition of the hull and engine is by far more important than how nice the fit-out is, it is that which you should judge the boat on, not how nice it is inside.

Edited by Lady Muck
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most brokers won't insure a boat over 25 years old, unless you have a survey every few years and some won't insure Springers at all.

 

 

 

What insurance firms won't insure Springers on principle? This is the first I have heard of this, and I am fairly sure I got quotes from all of the main NB insurance companies for mine with no problems, and have had policies with two.

Edited by Starcoaster
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I read it on some policy somewhere - cannot remember where i think it might be springers over a certain age.

My bad, its saga - they require full out of water to insure any springer regardless of age, so its not really a no.

Edited by Lady Muck
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What insurance firms won't insure Springers on principle? This is the first I have heard of this, and I am fairly sure I got quotes from all of the main NB insurance companies for mine with no problems, and have had policies with two.

Saga will insure Springers, comprehensively with a good survey report, third party only without, even if you live aboard. The catch is, you have to be over 50....

 

Which will, in five years time, describe the boat, the Land Rover and me.

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I'm in a very similar position to the original poster, which is handy because reading all your responses to her questions (many of which I have wondered myself) has been fantastic.

 

About buying old boats - is it still a bad idea to buy an older boat if it has already been overplated?

 

And, apart from asking the seller what's really going on, does there appear to be any obvious reason to you seasoned boaters why this boat: http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=339298%C2'>

 

Thank you! And hello!

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I read it on some policy somewhere - cannot remember where i think it might be springers over a certain age.

My bad, its saga - they require full out of water to insure any springer regardless of age, so its not really a no.

Possibly because they require a full out of water survey on all boats above a certain age, and all Springers are now older than that age?

They are all at least 20 years old now, don't forget.

 

I have 3rd Party boat insurance with Saga, and they certainly didn't ask to see a survey in August 2013. If I'd wanted comprehensive insurance, they would have, but they'd do that for any 40 year old boat anyway. Miserable lot refused to insure my car, though, which is only a year older than the boat, saying that they can't insure any car that's over 30......

 

 

About buying old boats - is it still a bad idea to buy an older boat if it has already been overplated?

 

It depends on what the surveyor says. If it's been done well, then I'd not worry about it.

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