Red Diesel

[Big COL]

An interesting article on the narrowboatworld site, following on from the debate that's been going on here. Have a look and lets here your comments.

Edited January 21, 2005 by Big COL

[DHutch]

you got a link to that?

[bottle]

you got a link to that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hi dhutch

 

WWW.narrowboatworld.com will get the home page.

 

 

bottle

[Richard Bustens]

Hi

With all the problems with Eberspacher heaters i rung up Shell last week, eventually i was put through to there marine oil devision and was told by a man there categorically that there is no such thing as diesel what we buy from the petrol station and marina's is gas oil and there is only one grade of this and has been for donkeys years, red die is added to donate the tax status but it is the same stuff.

There is a marine fuel that has a higher flash point, but he said it is very unlikely that we would be getting that from marinas as it was sold bulk by tanker to the boats in docks, and the difference would not be noticeable.

Someone is telling porkies, either the fuel Co or Eberspacher.

 

I give up, the only logical thing can be is the way the boat yard and or the boat owner stores the fuel

[Gary Peacock]

Hi Richard,

 

I get the distinct feeling the chap who wrote the article works for the company who manufacture "Fuel Set" the additive recommended by Eberspacher. They actually supply it "free" with the units now.

So your suspicions may be correct.

However we fit split tanks on our boats and the heaters running on kerosene or DERV fuel do seem to be more reliable.

The Victron Whispergen definitely doesn't like red diesel either and becomes very labour intensive when run on it.

 

I used to work with bulk fuel supply and the grades of fuel did vary depending on requirement, but I think we could do with some more facts from the fuel suppliers on this.

 

Gary

 

 

 

Hi

With all the problems with Eberspacher heaters i rung up Shell last week, eventually i was put through to there marine oil devision and was told by a man there categorically that there is no such thing as diesel what we buy from the petrol station and marina's is gas oil and there is only one grade of this and has been for donkeys years, red die is added to donate the tax status but it is the same stuff.

There is a marine fuel that has a higher flash point, but he said it is very unlikely that we would be getting that from marinas as it was sold bulk by tanker to the boats in docks, and the difference would not be noticeable.

Someone is telling porkies, either the fuel Co or Eberspacher.

 

I give up, the only logical thing can be is the way the boat yard and or the boat owner stores the fuel

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[bottle]

The only way to solve this dilemma is for some one to obtain samples of both

 

fuels and have them analysed in a laboratory.

 

Maybe its not the fuel at fault but the red dye.

 

bottle.

[Amicus]

Just to add to the confusion, long time ago I fitted quite a few boat engines and got to know and hate the red stuff. I then worked on the cross Channel ferry steamers, Weymouth to Channel Islands, one of me jobs was to strip and clean the burners from the main boilers. Did this in a bucket of diesel fuel from the generators, this was hands in stuff and that fuel felt and smelt different to the red I knew. It felt “silky”, quite different to red and almost pleasant to use. There was no dye in it. It was also, I think, different to the DERV I use in me white van.

[Richard Bustens]

So Amicus

You are a white van man.?

I hope you are more carefully in your boat

[Amicus]

Watcha goin' on abat. didn't yer no a white van indicates the best drivers in the world.

Aint got no boat, yet

[Big COL]

Watcha goin' on abat. didn't yer no a white van indicates the best drivers in the world.

Aint got no boat, yet

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

So Richard, we just have to stay off the roads and stick to the canals and we'll be perfectly safe.

[Richard Bustens]

Hi Col

I was always of the opinion that it was something to do with the driving test, if you passed they gave you a car and if you failed miserably you got a white van to play with, as a consolation prize

Edited January 29, 2005 by Richard Bustens

[Amicus]

Arf, king, arf

[maffi mushkila]

Hi Col

I was always of the opinion that it was something to do with the driving test, if you passed they gave you a car and if you failed miserably you got a white van to play with, as a consolation prize   

 

Jest if you must but things could be worse. Imagine living in a city with 1/2M people behind the wheels of cars, who couldnt pass water with out praying for guidance.

 

Don't knock the WVM compared to a Saudi driver he's a friggin' expert.

[Richard Bustens]

Maffi is that expert or export.?

[maffi mushkila]

Maffi is that expert or export.?

 

 

You choose!

Edited January 31, 2005 by maffi mushkila

[Paul Evans]

So we have a series Saudi Diver (Low) - WVM - Us (High). Where do French (particularly Parisian) and Italian (particularly Roman) drivers fit in the series?

 

This is of course, seriously, OFF TOPIC!

[Richard Bustens]

Dont matter Paul

WVW is WVW wherever ..lol

[maffi mushkila]

Dont matter Paul

WVW is WVW wherever  ..lol

 

 

Are you being sexist, Richard?

 

 

WVM here is a different kettle of fish.

 

Yes he is a bit crazy.

 

Yes he knows all there is to know about driving.

 

No he doesn't speed (it's hard to stop without brakes)

[enigma]

Don't know what the other site discussed but here's my bit on fuel quality.

 

If it's red its gas-oil, if it's white/yellow its derv (diesel for road vehicles). That’s the case now, it may not have been years ago.

 

Derv duty is paid when it's made and it is not then economic to colour it red because the extra duty paid over gas-oil would have to be reclaimed.

 

If you compare the two with petrol, then derv is 4* and gas oil is 2*

 

Eberspacher heaters are made to run on derv and they are not happy on gas-oil (because of the lower cetane rating or equivalent petrol * rating).

 

Fuel Set is an additive which they say alters the cetane number of gas-oil to make it more like derv. Fuel Set also allows water in the fuel to be "burnt" and no doubt does other things as well (so they say). I use it, but may be wasting my money, I don't know.

 

Rod Fox

Edited January 31, 2005 by enigma

[Richard Bustens]

Not according to Shell

It is all gas oil white from garages and red for other uses the only difference is the addition of red dye.

[enigma]

I don't want to argue with Shell!

 

I will however stick to my statements above. Auto diesel (DERV) is made to BS EN590 and Gas Oil is made to BS 2869.

 

The web page below has the full product specification of the two:

 

http://www.cplpetroleum.co.uk/products.htm

Click on the links for DERV and Gas Oil

 

Rod Fox

[Richard Bustens]

Well i accept that that shows a difference

But the man from shell tectonicall said they were the same stuff with a dye added, and that there is no such stuff as diesel it is all gas oil.

 

Go figure I'm getting different info everywhere.

Edited January 31, 2005 by Richard Bustens

[enigma]

I give in as well!

 

Rod Fox

[bottle]

Just to throw a spanner in the works does DERV stand for Diesel Engined

 

Road Vehicle. So this was used to name the fuel. I think the Americans (sorry) use

 

the term Gas Oil for there truck fuel.

[Amicus]

I’m no x-spurt on this subject, but, the way I read this over the years is, once upon a time DERV and RED were the same stuff, then things started to be done to DERV to alter the impact on the environment, so that today we have two distinct products, red, much like it used to be, and DERV with the low sulphur, etc. and stuff added to replace the sulphur, which the injection gubbins needs as a lubricant.