Tickover propulsion

[Sade]

Another question sorry peeps!

 

We are having problems with the Kingfisher engine and seems like the tickover propulsion is almost nothing, we're not moving anywhere fast (in tickover terms). We thought that the prop was gunged up but on checking it was clear. We seem to be going nowhere fast and have to really push the revs up to get her going .....are we missing something? Not sure if the gear box needs adjusting but the push / pull gear stick just isn't clicking into place on forward so we are like the slow pokes on the canal! Any suggestions?

 

sorry to be a pain in the neck

[Ex- Member]

Just do some general checks, I think gear box oil level can effect the drive of the prop, Others will know better though.

 

Check cable linkages too, I've come unstuck with these slipping in the past.

[pete.i]

I think you may have to give a little more info such as type of gearbox. Can you see the prop shaft inside the boat and if you can does it seem to be turning at the correct speed for the tickover speed of the engine? As Julynian has said oil level can affect the drive and gear cables can (and do) stretch and go out of adjustment. I suppose the worst scenario, from the point of view of repair, would be if the prop is spinning on the shaft. There is a pin that holds the prop on to the shaft taper along with a big nut on the end of the prop shaft and I suppose that if that pin shears, Which I am fairly sure it is supposed to do if your prop hits something heavy, then, concievably, the propellor could just be spinning loosely on the shaft.

 

Good luck

 

Pete

[Guest]

Depending on the type of box, I agree it could be a gearbox oil level issue, or maybe the oil is knackered or of the wrong type (different boxes require different oils.) Other possibilities include wear in the box, a dodgy drive plate or a slipping half coupling or similar. Has it always been like this, has it gone worse, have you changed/altered anything?

[Keeping Up]

There is one other possibility. At this time of year leaves build up around the prop making it like a football and giving you hardly any drive. It can happen within a minute or so, before you've even had time to get moving properly at all. The thing is, as soon as you stop to check the prop they all fall off before you ever get to see them. So you may not have a fault at all. If a quick burst of reverse helps, even if only for a few seconds, then leaves were the problem.

[Naughty Cal]

Is it the right prop for your engine/gearbox set up?

[Guest]

There is one other possibility. At this time of year leaves build up around the prop making it like a football and giving you hardly any drive. It can happen within a minute or so, before you've even had time to get moving properly at all. The thing is, as soon as you stop to check the prop they all fall off before you ever get to see them. So you may not have a fault at all. If a quick burst of reverse helps, even if only for a few seconds, then leaves were the problem.

Very likely. We helped a geezer who thought his outboard was knackered because of this very reason. I don't think he completely believed me at first.

[mrsmelly]

Hi

 

How long have you had the boat? Speed on tickover varies greatly with gearbox/prop size.

 

Tim

[Sade]

We've only had the boat a couple of months and only had a chance to drive her on a few weekends to move her. We didn't seem to have this problem the first couple of times out and seems to be a new problem. The leaves sound like a possibility and as we are new to this a definite learning curve. Our engine is in the back cabin so we can see the prop shaft spinning but seems to lose speed at tickover - we also don't know what type of gearbox it is at the moment (prob something we should know!) - we've got all the paperwork on the boat so will check that out. Speaking to Dean, he says that the oil has been over filled in the gear box so would that have this effect? Previous owner seems to have over filled it but would this level need to be reduced to help propulsion? We know we're going slow as we've had a few comments from other boaters about "not being in rush" hahahaha! thanks for all your replies, it's really appreciated

[Keeping Up]

If the gearbox is a PRM it relies on picking up oil to provide the hydraulic pressure that keeps it in gear. If the oil level is too low, it doesn't pick up enough oil so you lose drive. But I don't think over-filling would cause this effect.

[Sade]

Thanks Allan.....it doesn't help that we're not on the boat at the moment so we can't try different things as we're having to drive down to the boat to move her and then come home again. I'm sure once we're on we'll suss it out (hopefully) Cheers

[bottle]

Another question sorry peeps!

 

We are having problems with the Kingfisher engine and seems like the tickover propulsion is almost nothing, we're not moving anywhere fast (in tickover terms). We thought that the prop was gunged up but on checking it was clear. We seem to be going nowhere fast and have to really push the revs up to get her going .....are we missing something? Not sure if the gear box needs adjusting but the push / pull gear stick just isn't clicking into place on forward so we are like the slow pokes on the canal! Any suggestions?

 

sorry to be a pain in the neck

 

With the morse control (gearstick) in the neutral position and engine running, when you push it forward to engage gear, normally there is a 'clunk'.

 

That is gear engaged and the prop will turn (slowly), this is moored boat passing speed.

 

On further movement forward engine revs will increase, the prop will turn faster and the boat speed should also increase.

 

 

As others have said, leaves and towpath bramble cuttings will slow you down.

 

They may drop off when going into neutral but if not a quick burst of reverse should shift them.

 

Move lever to neutral but do not engage forward until the boat has travelled at least half its length forward.

 

You can watch your stern and see all the detritus.

 

If the gear is not engaging correctly it may just need the cable adjusting, it may have stretched.

[Sade]

Thanks Keith....we don't have cables (?) they are metal rods with a rod selector (is this what you mean?) So basically we pull the gear stick back for reverse (clunk), then to the next groove for neutral (clunk) and then forward again for....forward (clunk) but the forward gear groove seems quite worn away so it slips out of gear if you don't hold it in forward. All your comments much appreciated though....will keep trying

[comfortably numb]

I've been told that if the gearbox is over filled there is a valve that will automatically stop it working at all. This is to prevent the seals being damaged by the high oil pressure. So of you are getting some drive it doesn't sound as if over filling is the problem.

 

As for having this and other teething problems like your roof leak I suppose no 2nd hand boat is going to be perfect and even the best of surveyors isn't going to pick up on every problem. We used a highly respected surveyor with a reputation for thoroughness but we've still had a few problems like a dodgy water pump, a leaking window, a misbehaving alternator etc

[Sade]

Yeah our surveyor was very thorough and couldn't have known about the leak - we've only noticed since the recent rain. It will all work out once we're moved on

[RLWP]

A couple of things.

 

IIRC, the Kingfisher engine is a Chinese import, and so has a Chinese hydraulic gearbox (I'm working on one at the moment) - an MA 100, MA 125 or MA 142 perhaps

 

The gearbox should lock in gear without having to rely on grooves or detents in the linkage.

 

So, simple things first:

 

Check the oil level in the gearbox. If there isn't enough oil, the pump can't lock up the clutch plates to lock into forward or reverse. Mind you, there would have to be very little oil for this to be true

 

Disconnect the control rods from the gearbox. You should be able to move the lever on the gearbox into forward and reverse without the rods. See if the gearbox works properly like this. If it does, the rods need adjusting. If it doesn't, you've got a drive line problem

 

Richard

 

If it is one of the gearboxes above, this is the appropriate troubleshooting chart:

 

 

I have no idea what turning in company means

Edited November 18, 2013 by RLWP

[Mike Tee]

 

 

I have no idea what turning in company means

 

Prop shaft turning when in neutral? Or was that ironic?!! (Didn't sleep well, its still early for me). Or could be dance related.

[Mac of Cygnet]

 

 

 

 

I have no idea what turning in company means

 

Yes, I wondered that. Could it mean the shaft still rotates when in neutral?

Edited November 18, 2013 by Mac of Cygnet

[Captain Fizz]

Don't you just love the wording in Chinese manuals.

Low oil level can cause surging in power transfer with a hydraulic box as the pump picks up oil sporadically.

Where are you moored?

[nb Innisfree]

We uused to have one of those gearboxes,nice smooth drive engagement, no clunking like a PRM.

[Sade]

A couple of things.

 

IIRC, the Kingfisher engine is a Chinese import, and so has a Chinese hydraulic gearbox (I'm working on one at the moment) - an MA 100, MA 125 or MA 142 perhaps

 

The gearbox should lock in gear without having to rely on grooves or detents in the linkage.

 

So, simple things first:

 

Check the oil level in the gearbox. If there isn't enough oil, the pump can't lock up the clutch plates to lock into forward or reverse. Mind you, there would have to be very little oil for this to be true

 

Disconnect the control rods from the gearbox. You should be able to move the lever on the gearbox into forward and reverse without the rods. See if the gearbox works properly like this. If it does, the rods need adjusting. If it doesn't, you've got a drive line problem

 

Richard

 

If it is one of the gearboxes above, this is the appropriate troubleshooting chart:

 

 

I have no idea what turning in company means

Thank you so much for this....I will show it to Dean later

We are moored on K&A

[bottle]

Thanks Keith....we don't have cables (?) they are metal rods with a rod selector (is this what you mean?) So basically we pull the gear stick back for reverse (clunk), then to the next groove for neutral (clunk) and then forward again for....forward (clunk) but the forward gear groove seems quite worn away so it slips out of gear if you don't hold it in forward. All your comments much appreciated though....will keep trying

 

Ah!!!

 

My fault assumed, a dangerous thing to do, that you had modern controls but as others have mentioned the principle is the same

 

If you can engage gear at the gearbox and all is OK then it will just be an adjustment of the cable linkage. if not further investigation will be required.

[RLWP]

Don't you just love the wording in Chinese manuals.

Low oil level can cause surging in power transfer with a hydraulic box as the pump picks up oil sporadically.

Where are you moored?

 

One of my favourites from the Fuzhou manual is this one:

 

 

 

I guess turning in company is something to do with dragging in neutral

 

Richard

[Captain Fizz]

I love it Richard!

Especially the "do not run away"

I wonder how many owners there are who would not know how to shut off the fuel supply in the event of a run away.

[RLWP]

Dunno - I'd be running away!

 

Richard