Wanted: Competent all-rounder to help our work in progress!!

[saxplayer]

But say anything to your insurance co

[alan_fincher]

Ignoring the legalities of this am i correct in thinking that several replies suggest that £150 per day is not enough?

 

 

Ian.

 

I'm thinking if it really is just an honest to goodness 3 days, can't the OP find 3 days anywhere in his busy life to complete it.

 

It doesn't sound like 3 days to me, particularly, though!

[Dan Simon]

I think I suggested there is more work to be done than there actually is. But good to hear the responses. Not sure what you do for a living Ark Right to scoff at £15 per hour mate

[Guest]

But say anything to your insurance co

My insurance policy makes no reference to requiring a gas safe person being required to fit gas appliances or systems.

PS what happened to the op's avatar? Now we see him now we don't.

[MtB]

I nearly give up on understanding all this.

 

So trying again I can fit and work on stuff myself on my own boat/house yes?

 

NOT that I would choose to do so but if I did I could?

 

It all turns on whether you are receiving payment for the work. If you do it for nothing, not even a cuppa, then you just have to know what you are doing, be 'competent'. No matter who owns the boat.

 

If you receive payment or reward, then you have to be Gas Safe Registered. Period. No matter who owns the boat. (Granted it is highly unlikely that a third party would pay you to work on your own boat, but I can think of at least one circumstance where this might happen.)

 

MtB

[Boat&Bikes]

I think I suggested there is more work to be done than there actually is. But good to hear the responses. Not sure what you do for a living Ark Right to scoff at £15 per hour mate

Would have thought many people earn way less than that,it seems a good day rate to me.

 

Ian.

[mark99]

The GSIUR are issued under the over-arching "enabling legilstation" called The Health and Safety at Work Act.

 

I'm sure we have all heard of that. Most other work related Regulations are issued under that act too - a General set of principles set out by an act of Parliament which enables other more specific safety Regulations

 

The clue is the "at work" words.

Would have thought many people earn way less than that,it seems a good day rate to me.

 

Ian.

 

Reminds me of a comedian who said, when he worked for an employer for the minimum wage,

 

"you know what that told me? ......... if they could, they would pay me even less

 

b*astards!"

Edited November 12, 2013 by mark99

[MtB]

 

It all turns on whether you are receiving payment for the work. If you do it for nothing, not even a cuppa, then you just have to know what you are doing, be 'competent'. No matter who owns the boat.

 

If you receive payment or reward, then you have to be Gas Safe Registered. Period. No matter who owns the boat. (Granted it is highly unlikely that a third party would pay you to work on your own boat, but I can think of at least one circumstance where this might happen.)

 

MtB

 

Replying to my own post now

 

This does not apply to leisure boats.

 

All of wot I explained only applies to residences, whether they be houses caravans, boats, campervans, whatever.

 

All clear now?

 

MtB

[Guest]

It all turns on whether you are receiving payment for the work. If you do it for nothing, not even a cuppa, then you just have to know what you are doing, be 'competent'. No matter who owns the boat.

 

If you receive payment or reward, then you have to be Gas Safe Registered. Period. No matter who owns the boat. (Granted it is highly unlikely that a third party would pay you to work on your own boat, but I can think of at least one circumstance where this might happen.)

 

MtB

Thanks Mike, what about domestic/house installations?

 

Does the same apply?

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

So how about someone doing all the other stuff for say £150 a day,& as many cakes they can eat.,,Then do the gas stuff for nothing ?.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Dan Simon]

 

I'm thinking if it really is just an honest to goodness 3 days, can't the OP find 3 days anywhere in his busy life to complete it.

 

It doesn't sound like 3 days to me, particularly, though!

 

Yeah but we're going a dab at a time Alan, and there's two of us on a small boat when we're not working, so getting anything done takes ages. If it isn't three days it's more then ain't it!

[blackrose]

 

It's not contentious. It's defined in law. The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations demand a Gas Safe Register bod does the work, whatever people might 'contend'.

 

MtB

 

Isn't that true only if it's a main dwelling?

So the GSIUR applies to liveaboards..

 

Thought so.

So all these 'self fitter outers' who do their own gas pipe work ARE breaking the law....then....

 

Only if like me, they liveaboard!

[Lady Muck]

I think I suggested there is more work to be done than there actually is. But good to hear the responses. Not sure what you do for a living Ark Right to scoff at £15 per hour mate

Dan, there is someone doing boat fitting out for a living at a canalside workshop on the offside (I think) in Haggerston, (not the gas stuff obvs) if you can get your boat there. Prices you are asking sounds about and around what he is charging. He's fitted two boats out for a friend of mine. If you ask on London Boaters Facebook group, I am sure someone will be able to tell you. If you private message me I can put you in touch with my friend who has his details.

[blackrose]

Ignoring the legalities of this am i correct in thinking that several replies suggest that £150 per day is not enough?

 

 

Ian.

 

I'm reasonably competent and I'd do it for £150 per day. Trouble is I'm a bit slow!

 

I worked in a boatyard for £7.50 an hour for 2 years so £150 per day.sounds ok to me, but I've got a proper job now and I've moved away from London. Although I still don't earn 15 quid an hour!

 

If I were you I'd get a price for the job from someone rather than paying by the day. They'll end up stringing it out.

Edited November 12, 2013 by blackrose

[mark99]

So how about someone doing all the other stuff for say £150 a day,& as many cakes they can eat.,,Then do the gas stuff for nothing ?.

 

 

Guidance ACOPs for the Regs state.

 

"For the purposes of these Regulations, ‘work’ includes do-it-yourself activities, work undertaken as a favour for friends and relatives, and work for which there is no expectation of reward or gain, eg voluntary activity for charities. This means that anyone carrying out such work must have the necessary competence, as required by regulation 3(1). However, membership of an HSE approved class of persons (under regulation 3(3)) is required only by businesses carrying out gas fitting work (see paragraphs 43–45)".

 

 

So how is this 3rd party chap doing it as a favour and for no gain going to prove he is competent if it goes wrong and creates an unsafe situation? unless he can demonstrate his competence is a level greater than the ACS and Gas Safe qualifications - he will struggle. I contend the courts won't even consider anything other than Gas Safe/ correct ACS as the benchmark.

Edited November 12, 2013 by mark99

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Aaahh,cheers mark.

[pelicanafloat]

I worked in Stoke on Trent for a few years, and I can tell you, £150 is regarded as frivolous overspend! And yes, they do actually believe that the minimum wage does not apply to cash payment! But I digress.

 

If the OP had said he'd got £450 in hand and needed some help in getting his 'massive fitout' completed, and could provide some level of compensation for help, I've no doubt the responses might have been a littler less acerbic. We all like to proudly point out how we give a helping hand to those in need, so I'll proudly say, "I'd love to help, but unfortunately I've got a wedding to go to..." The money would come in handy for quite a few people so I expect some would could or might be interested in giving a helping hand...

 

Everyone knows that a builder's home is the last one to ever get completed, and DIY fitout will come to the same conclusion. It takes serious concentration and professionalism to finish a job to the thorough standard expected. As for carrying out work that involves health and safety, and areas of competent regulation, I was until retired a competent electrician (plus competence in other trades). I was able to carry out work in the knowledge that even if I did the work for peanuts, as long as I was insured I was covered. I am no longer insured. I cannot and will not work for anyone for 'cash' because even though the promise of "I won't tell' is given, there is never the expectation of the work causing some personal damage whether it be to oneself or ones property. You just have to own up - "He done it! He altered such and such and now look what's happened - He put in a new light fitting, and the gas oven blew up! It must be something to do with his work!!" etc.... It just not worth the hassle to me but might be to others.

 

..... oh, and I agree with Lady Muck ..... go and use facebook. Great social interaction

[blackrose]

 

I contend the courts won't even consider anything other than Gas Safe/ correct ACS

 

I contend that the courts won't actually be involved if the person is competent because nothing will go wrong and there won't be a problem...

 

But that's just my take on it. I did my own gas work and it was deemed one of the best installations the BSS examiner had seen.

 

If other people would rather follow the law to the letter that's fine with me too.

[Dan Simon]

Good point Blackrose, and thanks Lady Muck... will DM

 

Dx

[mark99]

 

I contend that the courts won't actually be involved if the person is competent because nothing will go wrong and there won't be a problem...

 

But that's just my take on it. I did my own gas work and it was deemed one of the best installations the BSS examiner had seen.

 

If other people would rather follow the law to the letter that's fine with me too.

 

 

 

Eh? I was not talking about diy - this was in response to the question posed re some-one working gratis on some-one else's system.

 

However I will add that's fine but DIY'ers need to know the risk. If an incident happened and a visitor/other family member was poisened or the boat exploded and harmed someone else, the Courts would be involved and Competence would be an issue and the BSS examiner's opinion would not be sought.

Edited November 12, 2013 by mark99

[pelicanafloat]

Out of interest, any competent BSS examiner would as a matter of course want to know if any alterations, specifically in gas (and electrics too? not sure), had been checked and passed by a competent person. And he would not issue a certificate if it obvious that work had been done without the relevent certification (no matter how ell it had been done!). You cannot just tell lies, it isn't worth the risk. So, my advice, phone a registered gas person to do the gas work and sleep easy

[MtB]

Thanks Mike, what about domestic/house installations?

 

Does the same apply?

 

From post 33:

 

All of wot I explained only applies to residences, whether they be houses caravans, boats, campervans, whatever.

 

So yes!

 

MtB

[brian1042]

Might be worth looking here:

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=26560

 

[blackrose]

 

 

 

Eh? I was not talking about diy - this was in response to the question posed re some-one working gratis on some-one else's system.

 

However I will add that's fine but DIY'ers need to know the risk. If an incident happened and a visitor/other family member was poisened or the boat exploded and harmed someone else, the Courts would be involved and Competence would be an issue and the BSS examiner's opinion would not be sought.

 

My post was also in response to the same question. In terms of gas I don't think it matters if it's DIY work or someone else doing if it's a main dwelling.

 

I knew the risk and I took it. I'm not suggesting anyone else breaks the law, but with LPG, given the necessary research and planning what remains is just plumbing. Having said that, I didn't do my own mains electrical installation because I don't adequately understand electrics and I know I'm not competent.

Edited November 12, 2013 by blackrose

[MtB]

 

But that's just my take on it. I did my own gas work and it was deemed one of the best installations the BSS examiner had seen.

 

 

Not that BSS examiners are qualified to judge the quality of your work.

 

If they are, then why all this debate about whether they are allowed to remove a test point screw and conduct a soundness test?

 

 

MtB

Although I'll concede I have been in your boat and didn't get blown up